Losing My Religion?

[Raja.Pakistani]

^^So who created Allah??

Its very stupid Question to begin with because God is not any physical being which need creator

Every finite thing has begining and will have and end. If you read the attributes of God then he is eternal being

 

[VelocuR]

^^So who created Allah??

A person angrily asked Muhammad (PBUH), who is Allah, your god or someone?

"When My servants ask thee concerning Me,
I am indeed close (to them).
I respond to the prayer of every suppliant
when he calls on Me.
Let them also, with a will,
Listen to My call, and believe in Me,
that they may walk in the right way."
Qur'an 2:186

"I have only sent you (Muhammad) as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men do not understand."
Quran 34:28


Therefore remember Me (by praying, glorifying), I will remember you, and be grateful to Me (for My countless Favors on you) and never be ungrateful to Me.”
Quran 2:152


God know, many people asked same thousand questions million years, verily he is the same God who had spoken with Moses, Jesus, and now Muhammad, there shall be no doubt.

 

[Anubis]

I do not think there is a point in looking at religion or god logically....our logic depends on our perception of the laws of nature and the universe is too complex for us to comprehend....a being that supposedly created the complex universe has to be more complex than the universe itself...hence god is out side the boundary of logic and scientific reasoning....religion and science do not go hand in hand!

 

[cleverrider]

Secondly, 'fate' free will. ?

This question does not have an answer; no human can ever answer this question. Period!

God is powerful? Agree!

God is all knowing? Agree!

Let me just give you a simple example: - Let’s just say before the world ends (qyamaat), altogether 50 people were sent to this planet By God. Now 10 were atheists, 10 were Christians, 10 Hindus, the remaining 20 were Muslims only 10 were sent to heaven because they obeyed God & the rest to hell.

God is all knowing? Agree!

Now God knew only 10 Muslims will be sent to heaven & the remaining 10 will join them later (Look out for me in the reaming 10)

The rest Hindu/Christians/ and so on will remain in hell forever.

Now god knew all this, so what was the point of wasting all this time on us & will punish us later!!!

It’s like God made/directed/produced a movie that he knows the ending to it! End off/nothing more to dicuss/thats just basics/common sense/logic

& remember never give example of human as an replacement of god, that just dont work

for example the teacher & student example, which one will pass & which one will fail! just leave these human made examples out.

 

[Pride]

I have serious problem with Religions be it mine or anyone's though I am not completely atheist as well (Contradictory but true!). I always see religion in 3 parts- 1) Belief 2) Practice and 3) Spirituality.

Everyone in this world has its own belief for a religion. We believe in our version of theories and consider them best. Only problem arises when we start questioning our beliefs based on our current day's logic. The logic also differs from person to person and hence every individual live with their own beliefs and makes community worse when beliefs contradicts.

Practices are specified and guide lined in some books or by scholars and we start following them without questioning them or being raised in certain atmosphere. In my opinion, practices should be improved based on culture, region and environment. What may be scholars have thought best in Arab that time, may not be good in subcontinent or Scandinavian countries.

Spirituality, which is crux of every religion, is actually same across the religions, if you watch closely. They all are meant for betterment of Humans and preaches similar things. The only point is that you have to watch the things closely.

Problem for the current world is that we are focusing too much on Belief and Practices but forgetting spirituality. We are changing religions, following different practices, Not accepting Humans as brothers and getting confused due to that.

 

[Skies]

@ajpirzada

Thank you for your reply, I had many questions, and I have got the answers of all, and I can be convinced like other believers do, but the problem is, to be a strong believer I have to absolutely obey and believe on the all decrees of Allah, and I am never entitled to complain, even I suffer.

Still I have got two major questions

1.

We know that there will be no good person/believer before the Doom's day. The criterion of the Doom's day is that, there can not be any good person before the Dooms' day, so, does not it mean that the people who will born just before the Doom's day will inevitably have to be a bad person?
I mean, We, as a believer, know that one day Doom's day will come, and there will be no Good person left on this earth just before the Doom's day. Right? .... So dose not it mean that even the people who would born at the age just before the Doom's day try to be a Good person, it will not be practical/possible for them, because, we know, according to Islam, there will be no Good persons left on this earth just before the Doom's day. On the other hand, if even a good person remains on earth, there will be no Doom's day, so one day everyone has to be inevitably/per-conditionally a bad person for the Doom's day to be occurred.

2.

Here is the question: http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/268111-i-need-answer-its-important-me.html

 

[Luftwaffe]

if your reasoning has led you to believe that God exists, then why not ask God this question. And God says:

Pointless to Answer to them. They will ask you as many ridiculous questions as people asked Moses P.B.U.H

The Glorious Qur'an says:

"As to those who reject Faith it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; They will not believe. "Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil Great is the penalty they incur." [Al-Qur'an 2:6-7]

 

[angeldude13]

@Aeronaut

so you want to blindly believe a book ???and this is the question to you all hindus,christians and muslims.
you say fear god as he provided you with this life.
why should i fear anybody??
i didn't asked for this life.i don't even get it why even iam here.
i never asked god that i wanted to be a human or how did your god knew that i wanted a human life or a bugs life???
i mean these are just simple questions.
why should i even deserve to be in human world?i don't asked for this human form or body.
am i some kind of experiment???
or
what iam doing here in this human body.
people like you amuse me.just believe whats written in the book and blabber like they are enlightened.
one more question-if you someday get stronger than this so called god what will you do???
will you keep that god guy on your mercy like he is doing to you.
i mean everything is possible.right?
these are just simple question that people need to ask themselves aren't they?

 

[cleverrider]

Edited......!

 

[MilSpec]

if your reasoning has led you to believe that God exists, then why not ask God this question. And God says:

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.


All of it is just conjecture/belief/ and not based upon any facts.... you can believe the eternal absolute etc stuff about allah, but all of it is a belief and should be clearly presented as one, do not state it as a fact, because it is not.

I have no problems with people willingly choosing to believe in god, or superman or santa clause, as long as they clearly state that it is their belief. The problem begins

1>when they start peddling their belief to others and claim their superficial belief is superior to someone else equally superficial belief. In my opinion monotheistic and polytheistic religions are based on equal amounts of hokum, none of them hold any higher moral ground based on the rational.

2> When such "beliefs" start challenging scientific data from geology, archaeology, paleontology, genetic etc. then it just becomes annoying.

 

[ajpirzada]

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.


All of it is just conjecture/belief/ and not based upon any facts.... you can believe the eternal absolute etc stuff about allah, but all of it is a belief and should be clearly presented as one, do not state it as a fact, because it is not.

I have no problems with people willingly choosing to believe in god, or superman or santa clause, as long as they clearly state that it is their belief. The problem begins

1>when they start peddling their belief to others and claim their superficial belief is superior to someone else equally superficial belief. In my opinion monotheistic and polytheistic religions are based on equal amounts of hokum, none of them hold any higher moral ground based on the rational.

2> When such "beliefs" start challenging scientific data from geology, archaeology, paleontology, genetic etc. then it just becomes annoying.

either you dont know science or everything in the end is a belief. what is the proof of big bang? what is the proof of gravity? what is the proof of black holes? and so on... i dont see any of these scientific 'facts' with my eye so then what is their proof? the proof lies in reverse causation! we observe what we observe in the present and then draw reasonable conjectures from it concerning the past, present and the future. For example, remember the first of half of 20th century when as per the findings, universe wasnt expanding? Then it was thought that universe has always been the same (constant universe) and there was no starting point. The idea of a big bang only came about once it was found that the universe is definitely expanding and this means that there must have been a starting point (obvious, isnt it?). so to be honest we didnt even have a proof of the big bang except that because the universe is expanding, there must have been a starting point. And then we have the cosmic background radiations which make us reach the scientific conclusion of the taking place of a big bang through reverse causation (still debated if it was the starting point or new universe coming out from the death of an old one).

likewise, by the same logic applied in science to establish scientific theories as facts, the observation that the creation exists necessitates the existence of a Creator. 'Have they been created from nothing or are they themselves their own creators?' - Quran.

 

[MilSpec]

either you dont know science or everything in the end is a belief. what is the proof of big bang? what is the proof of gravity?

what is the proof of black holes? and so on... i dont see any of these scientific 'facts' with my eye so then what is their proof? the proof lies in reverse causation! we observe what we observe in the present and then draw reasonable conjectures from it concerning the past, present and the future. For example, remember the first of half of 20th century when as per the findings, universe wasnt expanding? Then it was thought that universe has always been the same (constant universe) and there was no starting point. The idea of a big bang only came about once it was found that the universe is definitely expanding and this means that there must have been a starting point (obvious, isnt it?). so to be honest we didnt even have a proof of the big bang except that because the universe is expanding, there must have been a starting point. And then we have the cosmic background radiations which make us reach the scientific conclusion of the taking place of a big bang through reverse causation (still debated if it was the starting point or new universe coming out from the death of an old one).

likewise, by the same logic applied in science to establish scientific theories as facts, the observation that the creation exists necessitates the existence of a Creator. 'Have they been created from nothing or are they themselves their own creators?' - Quran.

wow... did not expect that, lets get the understanding of basic difference between facts and theories. theory of black hole, theory of gravitation constant, theory of electro-magnetism. these are theories. Facts -Facts are observations whereas theories are the explanations to those observations based on empirical data.
example of fact- emf of a lightening strike in the unit's assigned by humans using the theory of electromagnetism is measurable, and observable. Same goes for dimensions of an object in a common understandable standardized unit these are facts.

There is no significant difference in the school of thought which makes and individual believe in supremacy of allah/god or superman or santa clause....

Now religion is not a theory- because it is not based on any empirical data that supports it's views.

Religious views are not fact either, as they are not observable based on any empirical or historical evidence and neither can be recreated in any controlled environment for statistical/experimental evaluation.

Belief - is something that doesn't need any data, any observation, any measurment, any statistics as they do not subscribe to any logic system, In religion horses fly and river part, etc. None of that has any standing in logical rationale, but then again the advantage of a "belief " is that it doesn't need to. It can simple be a personal choice. As I said I have no problem in people believing, let it be your personal stance on your perception of reality, but don't claim moral high grounds or challenge scientific data based on a belief system. Thats it

 

[ajpirzada]

wow... did not expect that, lets get the understanding of basic difference between facts and theories. theory of black hole, theory of gravitation constant, theory of electro-magnetism. these are theories. Facts -Facts are observations whereas theories are the explanations to those observations based on empirical data.
example of fact- emf of a lightening strike in the unit's assigned by humans using the theory of electromagnetism is measurable, and observable. Same goes for dimensions of an object in a common understandable standardized unit these are facts.

There is no significant difference in the school of thought which makes and individual believe in supremacy of allah/god or superman or santa clause....

Now religion is not a theory- because it is not based on any empirical data that supports it's views.

Religious views are not fact either, as they are not observable based on any empirical or historical evidence and neither can be recreated in any controlled environment for statistical/experimental evaluation.

Belief - is something that doesn't need any data, any observation, any measurment, any statistics as they do not subscribe to any logic system, In religion horses fly and river part, etc. None of that has any standing in logical rationale, but then again the advantage of a "belief " is that it doesn't need to. It can simple be a personal choice. As I said I have no problem in people believing, let it be your personal stance on your perception of reality, but don't claim moral high grounds or challenge scientific data based on a belief system. Thats it

exactly. facts are subtle observations which give rise to explainations/conjectures/theories. data is nothing but quantification of the observed facts. hence theories fitting the data itself is the same as theories explaining the observations. now how is this different from the fact that the creation exists (a fact) thus necessitating a creator. if replication is the necessity, which it is, then there is no greater replication of the experiment that a creator is necessary for creating. who in this world does not create? and which thing does not get created? has anything ever created itself or come out of nothing? This is enough a replication for proving that creation requires a creator. thats it!

 

[freshmint]

Thank you so much. I appreciate all of your answers. Also thanks to Aero. I'd reply to your post now, but I've very very deep marks in my head. Also some answers. As I can't do them with mobile. But I'm gonna reply today for sure.

Muslims say "Muslims fast in Ramadan so that we can understand how the less fortunate/poor people who have to starve everyday feel like. "

But poor people do not have lavish feasts in evening. They either sleep without food the whole day or eat it whenever it is available. Therefore the concept of fasting should be changed to go without food for at least 18-24 hours starting from any time of the day and eat after the proscribed time. Also people should be free to drink limited amount of water during fasting since miserably poor people have only this thing to sustain themselves throughout the day.

There is a branch of Hinduism known as Jainism in which people fast for days without eating anything but they are allowed to drink water whenever they want. There are even small children as young as 7-8 who keep this fast known as PARYUSHAN/Paryushana and go without any food for a week or more.

also the concept of sacrificing animals was of pagan religions which Islam replaced. Also only old animals should be sacrificed and that too causing the least pain to it. It would be much better if animal meat is altogether abandoned during fasting as meat eaters since ancient times have always felt that meat tastes much better than plant food and giving up meat during some months during the year would mean sacrifice of luxuries and comforts and hence a purer form of devotion.

Every religion has good and bad points as religions are belief systems formed over centuries and are bound to get corrupted. They should be open to reform and change for the better.

 

[MilSpec]

exactly. facts are subtle observations which give rise to explainations/conjectures/theories.

No
In the context of this conversation facts are not subtle, but reproducible, measurable and quantifiable observations.

Theories are hypotheis or objective statement providing an analystical explantion for that theory. Experiments using the "facts" convert those hypotheis into theories with higher level of confidence such as Faradays theory of electromagnetism, Lenz's law etc.

Conjecture: is just statement without any data to back it up, often derrived from heuristic method of observation.

data is nothing but quantification of the observed facts. hence theories fitting the data itself is the same as theories explaining the observations.

Absolutely not, there is a common joke among quality engineers "shark attack and icecream sales", holistically looking at the data, you can fit the data to propose more shark attacks in the months of higher ice cream sales, but that doesn't mean it is related, Can you reproduce that data in a controlled environment, thus just because a data set fit, doesn't provide credibility to the theory, the observation has to crafted into logical proof and shown with the ability to re demonstrate.

Religion

fact vs religion, theory is heat causes change in resistance of material, with a heat source and voltage source and an ammeter you can get the facts... and then analsye that data to give you the curve that suggests the relation between temp and electrical resistance of the material, and you can reproduce it over and over giving you the same relationship.

If the belief in a hypothetical religion is assume - "change in electrical resistance of is caused by demon", how will you analyse it, although it might sound idiotic, it is almost the same as prophet muhhamed riding a flying horse to the moon, or Virgin Mary giving birth, or Jesus ascending to the sky..... all of them beliefs, none of them closely resembling any logical rationale.