Longewala 'lies' - Nailed

[Ayush]

Bangladesh total land mass is not half of Pakistan today so how was it back then?

population..

 

[Rain]

In a nutshell; Indian Army was lying, is lying and will continue to lie.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

mb them.
Talk of the day, Major Shabbir held his shooting because of a wedding procession in Indian village, which he conquered.
More over Major Shabbir Sharif spoke with Indian villagers, who mistook him as Indian army personal.
Major, Shabbir Sharif found Indian currency in Indian bunkers, which was returned to HQ and eventually to handed over to Indian General.
No Sir, Pak army do not do that.. instead one Indian told me th

Well we lost the war, but our PAF did us proud. But read the article below.

Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

An Excerpt from Yeager,

the Autobiography of General (Retd.) Chuck E. Yeager (USA)

The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] a$$es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

I didn't get involved in the actual combat because that would've been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot-down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisers taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, "Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?" They couldn't believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, "I'm the American Defense Rep here. That's what I'm doing."

Copyright © 1985 by Yeager Inc.

Yeah I've read this and the pride of Pakistani people that CHUCK YEAGER TOLD THIS. Excepting that at about this time Yeager had lost his marbles altogether. He lost his sanity and began to create exagerrated accounts of what the Pak AF was doing during the war. The US Ambassador to PAkistan was at the recieving end during this phase and was enraged at chuck frequently walking up to him and spewing this BS. The AMbassador later went on to severely censure Yeager but the Pak establishment appropriated this madness to prove that the world had seen how great the PA was.

 

[indiatester]

In a nutshell; Indian Army was lying, is lying and will continue to lie.

No.

 

[trident2010]

Whatever book says we keep celebrating "Vijay Diwas"

 

[Star Wars]

Mujhe thodi trolling karne ki mood mai hai ...

 

[Dash]

Not Important? Its ensuring long held Pakistani belief once again that 'Banya' only wins through cheat, lies & conspiracy not man to man ever throughout history......

I know this burns but... all is fair in war...

Yeh first take care of your kashmir problem and your North-East indian problem and then talk about unity.
Go to any south indian city and talk to anyone in hindi and see how much they hate you. I like indians, except the north Indians who are ruling india and spoiling it for everyone. Most of my indian friends are from south here in Auckland who really hate north indians.

You have no idea what you are talking about!!!...
I am not from south and you dont know what respect I command here...and i have been peacefully living in south for 11 years...Though I live in Bangalore, majority of friends are Bangaloreans and 50% of them are tamils and die hard brothers of mine...

Mujhe thodi trolling karne ki mood mai hai ...

Karle yaar, Akhir humne Longewala pe "trolling" hi tau kiya tha, according to our friends from across the border!

 

[KingMamba]

population..

Doesn't answer my question.

Why discuss beliefs. You pakistani superstitious stupid people also believe in flying angels, lets just talk facts.

The book claim of ''nailing lies'' is sensationalist. He wants to express his opinion on the matter of who should get the credit of annihilating Pakistanis on that particular day is a matter of opinion of perception. All this after 42 years, sounds like internal bickering over credit. Normal.

Fact is Pakistani columns got annihilated. A good job well done.

Coming from a pagan this is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Doesn't answer my question.



Coming from a pagan this is the pot calling the kettle black.

End of world cult follower calling a rational person medieval terms of discrimination is plain hilarious.

 

[Xeric]

Apparently - and I don't remember where I read this Pakistani view of events - there were very suspicious looking indications that the ground had been mined. Instead of simply wheeling around the tiny outpost, the commander elected to wait till dawn.

I am a little - more than a little - puzzled by the long wait.

Joe, how are you?

Just to remind you that mines dont stop attacks, they just delay 'em.

Oh and yes, i suggest that people should go through Mine plow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Mine roller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Now, whereas the latter is a specialized piece if equipment and may not be available from the outset, the former is always carried handy.

 

[acetophenol]

Yeah sure buddy,
you hold a an enemy armed with over 40 tanks,several infantry men with nothing but just over a 100 men armed with a single RCL and personal weapons all night long and "thats freakin nothing!!!

 

[Ayush]

Doesn't answer my question.



Coming from a pagan this is the pot calling the kettle black.

most u guys say we are 7 times larger than u,so by using the same logic we divided u into half,yes,not by land area.

 

[acetophenol]

Yeh first take care of your kashmir problem and your North-East indian problem and then talk about unity.
Go to any south indian city and talk to anyone in hindi and see how much they hate you. I like indians, except the north Indians who are ruling india and spoiling it for everyone. Most of my indian friends are from south here in Auckland who really hate north indians.

Thats nothing more than plain bullshIIt man.
verbal diarrhoes,pdf style.Anyway you have a great future here,might become a think tank soon!

 

[Slayer786]

The Truth Of Courage

The army picked up a rich haul of gallantry awards for the fable defence of Longewala in the 1971 war. But its own documents concede it was the Air Force that won the battle for India. HARINDER BAWEJA unearths the facts

THERE IS often a wide chasm between the heat of battle and the calm manoeuvrings of gallantry awards and official retellings. It is in this gap that the facts of true valour dangerously sink. This is a shameful loss that can fester in times of peace and come back to haunt in times of war. Such an unhappy rumble is today being heard across India’s famously disciplined armed forces, demanding that the truth of courage be firmly established.

ARMY DOCUMENTS
Key army documents pertaining to the 1971 war — obtained by TEHELKA — reveal the truth about Longewala. The army may not be willing to acknowledge it today,but these documents effectively nail the controversy, even as they raise the uncomfortable question of why the army is keeping the lie alive.
“At Longewala that day, the IAF added to its history a glorious new chapter. One Pak infantry brigade, supported by one armoured regiment, launched an attack on the Indian position at Longewala on the night of 4/5 December. The objective, it seems was no less than the capture of Jaisalmer. Their way to Ramgarh and Jaisalmer appeared clear, as the Indian troops were very thin on the ground in that area.” “Jaisalmer had a total of only four Hunters available from the temporarily and hastily raised 122 Squadron. But on the SOS being received, the Hunters were over the target area as dawn was breaking. By mid-day, fifteen tanks had been destroyed. The pressure was kept up the next day. This was a straight battle between Pak armour and the IAF Hunters. In spite of the intense small arms fire and the frantic evasive actions of the tanks, the Hunters pressed home their attacks, picking off one tank after another. The Pakistanis abandoned their offensive and started pulling out on 6 December, leaving behind 27 tanks destroyed and another ten damaged on the sand of Longewala, along with scores of trucks. The Pakistani armoured offensive at Longewala was effectively stemmed and ultimately routed by a handful of Hunters. The bulk of Pak armoured regiment was destroyed by air action alone.” Destroyed by air action alone.

Little more needs to be said of this famed, controversial battle. Far from describing a ground battle — which is clearly being simulated by commanders in army classrooms — it is the army’s own documents that truly nail the lie of Longewala. Should an independent inquiry be recommended? Ask Longewala’s air heroes and you’ll have the answer.

From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 10, Dated Mar 15, 2008


Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

THE BATTLE of Longewala is part of army folklore. This is a fairy tale of 100 odd soldiers and their steely resolve, which forced an entire Pakistani brigade, backed by an armoured regiment of 45 tanks, to retreat in the 1971 war. This fascinating story was also captured on celluloid in the film ‘Border’, directed by JP Dutta. The battle of Longewala has been told and retold in military journals and is held out as a shining example to students graduating from the military academies. The sheer valour displayed by Major Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri and his alpha team is just an unmatched feat.
But some war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years. Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”
Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.” He further said that the Pakistani thrust was blunted entirely by air action alone.
Truth, it is said, is often the first casualty in the war. The controversy has raised several questions that need to be answered. If this is the truth, then why the army is keeping the lie still alive? Is the army taking more credit than it deserves? What incompetence military commanders are trying to hide? If former officers are correct, then what has propelled them to speak now? They should have protested before or even when the film Border was released?
The Indian army has been in news for wrong reasons, and it is time more facts were opened to put an end to this (de)famed battle. But let’s not make any conclusions unless we hear from both the forces. It is better not to conclude with half knowledge. This is something related to the dignified and respected Indian armed forces, and thus, it is in the interest of services that the truth about the Longewala battle be told to the citizens.

Source: Jai Hind: Proud to be an Indian - A TargetGenX effort

There are many indian websites carrying this story. We lost the battle. But not because of any false bravery of indian soldiers. But IAF who always had an advantage over the Pakistani tanks.
No bravery, no valour, no courage was displayed as shown in the fantasy movie called Border. It is now pointless to argue any further here.

 

[MilSpec]

The Truth Of Courage

The army picked up a rich haul of gallantry awards for the fable defence of Longewala in the 1971 war. But its own documents concede it was the Air Force that won the battle for India. HARINDER BAWEJA unearths the facts

THERE IS often a wide chasm between the heat of battle and the calm manoeuvrings of gallantry awards and official retellings. It is in this gap that the facts of true valour dangerously sink. This is a shameful loss that can fester in times of peace and come back to haunt in times of war. Such an unhappy rumble is today being heard across India’s famously disciplined armed forces, demanding that the truth of courage be firmly established.

ARMY DOCUMENTS
Key army documents pertaining to the 1971 war — obtained by TEHELKA — reveal the truth about Longewala. The army may not be willing to acknowledge it today,but these documents effectively nail the controversy, even as they raise the uncomfortable question of why the army is keeping the lie alive.
“At Longewala that day, the IAF added to its history a glorious new chapter. One Pak infantry brigade, supported by one armoured regiment, launched an attack on the Indian position at Longewala on the night of 4/5 December. The objective, it seems was no less than the capture of Jaisalmer. Their way to Ramgarh and Jaisalmer appeared clear, as the Indian troops were very thin on the ground in that area.” “Jaisalmer had a total of only four Hunters available from the temporarily and hastily raised 122 Squadron. But on the SOS being received, the Hunters were over the target area as dawn was breaking. By mid-day, fifteen tanks had been destroyed. The pressure was kept up the next day. This was a straight battle between Pak armour and the IAF Hunters. In spite of the intense small arms fire and the frantic evasive actions of the tanks, the Hunters pressed home their attacks, picking off one tank after another. The Pakistanis abandoned their offensive and started pulling out on 6 December, leaving behind 27 tanks destroyed and another ten damaged on the sand of Longewala, along with scores of trucks. The Pakistani armoured offensive at Longewala was effectively stemmed and ultimately routed by a handful of Hunters. The bulk of Pak armoured regiment was destroyed by air action alone.” Destroyed by air action alone.

Little more needs to be said of this famed, controversial battle. Far from describing a ground battle — which is clearly being simulated by commanders in army classrooms — it is the army’s own documents that truly nail the lie of Longewala. Should an independent inquiry be recommended? Ask Longewala’s air heroes and you’ll have the answer.

From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 10, Dated Mar 15, 2008


Battle of Longewala: Truth must be told

THE BATTLE of Longewala is part of army folklore. This is a fairy tale of 100 odd soldiers and their steely resolve, which forced an entire Pakistani brigade, backed by an armoured regiment of 45 tanks, to retreat in the 1971 war. This fascinating story was also captured on celluloid in the film ‘Border’, directed by JP Dutta. The battle of Longewala has been told and retold in military journals and is held out as a shining example to students graduating from the military academies. The sheer valour displayed by Major Kuldeep Singh Chandpuri and his alpha team is just an unmatched feat.
But some war veterans have challenged this story after 37 years. Major General (retd), Atma Singh Hansara, told Hindustan Times in an interview, “I dispute the ground battle completely. It is mockery of army ethos. No ground battle was fought and the army had merely rehearsed it on a sand model after the ceasefire to cover up the incompetence of senior military commanders.”
Air marshal, MS Bawa, who was directly involved in the war, also agrees with Hansara. He says, “This is a challenge. There was no contact between the enemy and the army.” He further said that the Pakistani thrust was blunted entirely by air action alone.
Truth, it is said, is often the first casualty in the war. The controversy has raised several questions that need to be answered. If this is the truth, then why the army is keeping the lie still alive? Is the army taking more credit than it deserves? What incompetence military commanders are trying to hide? If former officers are correct, then what has propelled them to speak now? They should have protested before or even when the film Border was released?
The Indian army has been in news for wrong reasons, and it is time more facts were opened to put an end to this (de)famed battle. But let’s not make any conclusions unless we hear from both the forces. It is better not to conclude with half knowledge. This is something related to the dignified and respected Indian armed forces, and thus, it is in the interest of services that the truth about the Longewala battle be told to the citizens.

Source: Jai Hind: Proud to be an Indian - A TargetGenX effort

There are many indian websites carrying this story. We lost the battle. But not because of any false bravery of indian soldiers. But IAF who always had an advantage over the Pakistani tanks.
No bravery, no valour, no courage was displayed as shown in the fantasy movie called Border. It is now pointless to argue any further here.

Comprehension failure:
Dear, if Army did not hold the fort till morning, the Jaisalmer airbase would have been run over by the Pakistani thrust and thus no IAF operation, ARMY did not destroy the pakistani armor and infantry division, but it did hold the ground till dawn against overwhelmingly superior enemy...Comprendo?