Long march: Next stop Islamabad!

[Awesome]

The game of chicken was getting out of hand. At the end of the day, the US is a superpower and the Pakistani government has to think rationally rather than emotionally. The US offered an olive branch with Hillary's apology and it was right for Pakistan to reciprocate and resume the relationship. The decision to drop the NATO fees was also smart; otherwise Pakistan would have been portrayed as a sellout.

This way Pakistan stood firm, got the apology and, like a gentleman keeping his word, kept its part of the bargain.

All the fees at one side, our demand to bring an end to drone strikes is and always should be non-negotiable. You can't negotiate on the lives of Pakistani people and what a wonderful reply from America - killing 22 of our people. Last year they killed 44 people in Datta Khel.

Its unforgivable I would hope for a big grand movement where these two characters are dragged out by their collars and thrown into NWA to fend against the drones themselves for a change.

Our lives are not cheap man!

 

[Developereo]

All the fees at one side, our demand to bring an end to drone strikes is and always should be non-negotiable. You can't negotiate on the lives of Pakistani people and what a wonderful reply from America - killing 22 of our people. Last year they killed 44 people in Datta Khel.

Its unforgivable I would hope for a big grand movement where these two characters are dragged out by their collars and thrown into NWA to fend against the drones themselves for a change.

Our lives are not cheap man!

I totally agree about the drone strikes. However, in any bargaining, we also have to look at the other guy's options realistically. There is absolutely no way any American administration can back down from drone strikes -- especially in an election year. The only way to stop them is through an American court order, or through an effective media campaign in the US to make people aware of the human cost and illegality of it.

As I wrote earlier, no matter what America does, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping Pakistan from making an official list of all the victims, and putting up a website or such detailing each life.

 

[illusion8]

What happened in last 7 months when it was blocked?

I can think of a few things the US did...don't know if I am right here.

1. Threatened to support Baluchistan Freedom movement.
2. Threatened indirectly to support GB freedom movement.
3. Stopped US money to Pakistan.
4. Increased drone strikes.
and,
5. Threatened to name Haqqani Network and LeT as terrorist organisations and indirectly naming Pakistan as a Terrorist sponsor.

...I think the last one did it for them.

 

[Awesome]

I totally agree about the drone strikes. However, in any bargaining, we also have to look at the other guy's options realistically. There is absolutely no way any American administration can back down from drone strikes -- especially in an election year. The only way to stop them is through an American court order, or through an effective media campaign in the US to make people aware of the human cost and illegality of it.

As I wrote earlier, no matter what America does, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping Pakistan from making an official list of all the victims, and putting up a website or such detailing each life.

The thing is then why reward America for killing Pakistanis? I mean what good does a list do, when you are providing them a nice route for all the comfort in the world?

It doesn't matter to us if its election year or whatever (although I highly doubt they would stop after elections), we have to go by our parliament. In our country we are supreme or are we not? If America is supreme then we are resigning to the fact that this is not a country but an American puppet colony.

If its true now, it will be true forever. In todays Pakistan an American CIA officer can shoot you in the brains and there's not a thing in the whole world that can be done about it. This is the Pakistan we are making by bowing down to Americans. Be it a superpower or a hyper power - its not God but in Pakistan its considered higher than the wrath of God.

I ask you one simple question... For all the money in the world, for all the power of America, will you sacrifice just one child of yours for continuation of status quo of Pakistan? Is this mess of a situation - this status quo more valuable than the life of your child? Then why do you ask the same of our tribal people who are being slaughtered day in and day out.

22 people killed right after you gave them access. This is a message, this is an aukaad yaad dilanay wala message.

 

[r3alist]

I totally agree about the drone strikes. However, in any bargaining, we also have to look at the other guy's options realistically. There is absolutely no way any American administration can back down from drone strikes -- especially in an election year. The only way to stop them is through an American court order, or through an effective media campaign in the US to make people aware of the human cost and illegality of it.

As I wrote earlier, no matter what America does, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping Pakistan from making an official list of all the victims, and putting up a website or such detailing each life.

There is no way Pakistan govt. would do that, it would backfire, Americans would make a counter list, so would the Indians, and they much better at propagandising.

But it's a good idea, something that ordinary citizens could do....something this forum could do and have the thread as a sticky....

 

[Developereo]

The thing is then why reward America for killing Pakistanis?

It's a cost-benefit analysis. It sounds callous, but the NATO route closure had no real impact on the drone strikes; its impact was more on NATO's Afghan operations. The flip side was the cost to Pakistan's economy and its financial interests. Once the apology was tendered, Pakistan's point was acknowledged and that was that.

I ask you one simple question... For all the money in the world, for all the power of America, will you sacrifice just one child of yours for continuation of status quo of Pakistan? Is this mess of a situation - this status quo more valuable than the life of your child? Then why do you ask the same of our tribal people who are being slaughtered day in and day out.

I don't believe Pakistan has any military or financial leverage to make America stop the drone campaigns. Simple as that.

What Pakistan does have is humanity and legality on its side, and the US administration has made it clear it does not feel constrained by those concerns. But that's Pakistan's only option against the superpower: to make the world (and the American public) aware of the moral and legal bankruptcy of America's drone campaign.

There is no way Pakistan govt. would do that, it would backfire, Americans would make a counter list, so would the Indians, and they much better at propagandising.

What counter list? Of terrorists? No one is complaining about terrorist deaths. We are only concerned about civilian deaths and that's the list Pakistan should publicize.

 

[Areesh]

I can think of a few things the US did...don't know if I am right here.

1. Threatened to support Baluchistan Freedom movement.
2. Threatened indirectly to support GB freedom movement.
3. Stopped US money to Pakistan.
4. Increased drone strikes.
and,
5. Threatened to name Haqqani Network and LeT as terrorist organisations and indirectly naming Pakistan as a Terrorist sponsor.

...I think the last one did it for them.

None of the above. According to analysts Pakistani govt is happy with those 2 bn dollars which would help the govt to improve balance of payments for at least next three months. This is the real reason.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Nato supply issue is quite popular with the masses & these extremists are trying to cash in on people's sentiments. However there are worst things happening in Pakistan.. like drone strikes. Why don't these mullahs go to FATA or Waziristan & protest against the drone strikes there? That would make much more sense...

 

[Developereo]

Nato supply issue is quite popular with the masses & these extremists are trying to cash in on people's sentiments. However there are worst things happening in Pakistan.. like drone strikes. Why don't these mullahs go to FATA or Waziristan & protest against the drone strikes there? That would make much more sense...

Pakistan government does not have control over the drone strikes. It does have control over the NATO routes.

 

[JanjaWeed]

^^^So who is this DPC against? US or Govt of Pakistan?

 

[Awesome]

It's a cost-benefit analysis. It sounds callous, but the NATO route closure had no real impact on the drone strikes; its impact was more on NATO's Afghan operations. The flip side was the cost to Pakistan's economy and its financial interests. Once the apology was tendered, Pakistan's point was acknowledged and that was that.



I don't believe Pakistan has any military or financial leverage to make America stop the drone campaigns. Simple as that.

Why are you forgetting that the Pakistani government is duty bound to shoot down the drones not just make a mean face about it and hope the closure has some effect.

The next step from Pakistan was to shoot down the drones, not say "okay you win, here's our bum."

Stockholm syndrome?

^^^So who is this DPC against? US or Govt of Pakistan?

The long march is against the illegitimate government of America imposed upon Pakistan.

 

[Developereo]

Why are you forgetting that the Pakistani government is duty bound to shoot down the drones not just make a mean face about it and hope the closure has some effect.

The next step from Pakistan was to shoot down the drones, not say "okay you win, here's our bum."

Stockholm syndrome?

Well, like I said, Pakistan is in no position to take on the US military. Much better to engage America on the propaganda front. Of course, the US has a huge advantage there, too, but Pakistan has at least a fighting chance in that arena. It has absolutely none on the military front.

 

[K-Xeroid]

Well, like I said, Pakistan is in no position to take on the US military.

When resisting a superpower, it is futile to fight them at their strongest point. Much better to engage America on the propaganda front. Of course, the US has a huge advantage there, too, but Pakistan has at least a fighting chance in that arena. It has absolutely none on the military front.

At some point I agreed with you, Lossing the whole front at once will never be a sane decision, but I still find it hard to engage on diplomatic level when remembering our diplomatic failures in past. Don't know wat can be our pressure resources other then jamming NATO supplies. Missing with U.S is also like destroying our Market internationally.

 

[Awesome]

Well, like I said, Pakistan is in no position to take on the US military. Much better to engage America on the propaganda front. Of course, the US has a huge advantage there, too, but Pakistan has at least a fighting chance in that arena. It has absolutely none on the military front.

Pakistan has a fighting chance if it fights. Basically its given up from the fight and its every man for himself. Politician and general both are not interested to fight, just looking out for #1.

I agree with the sentiments of the long march just wish it was under the leadership of PTI rather than these dubious characters. Our first priorities should be ke in dono chor ke bachon ko utha bahar karo!

 

[Developereo]

At some point I agreed with you, Lossing the whole front at once will never be a sane decision, but I still find it hard to engage on diplomatic level when remembering our diplomatic failures in past. Don't know wat can be our pressure resources other then jamming NATO supplies. Missing with U.S is also like destroying our Market internationally.

The list of civilian victims is a good starting point. It's not even confrontational. What's the US going to say? Don't talk about the victims? That will make the US look bad.

The only caveat is to be on guard against sabotage. The list of victims must NEVER include any terrorists or questionable characters. Every name must be 100% clean.

Pakistan has a fighting chance if it fights. Basically its given up from the fight and its every man for himself. Politician and general both are not interested to fight, just looking out for #1.

I think the military option is a non-starter. As they say, "Don't start something you are not prepared to finish."

No sane Pakistani general will engage the US military in a fight that can escalate out of control.

Our first priorities should be ke in dono chor ke bachon ko utha bahar karo!

It won't change the ground realities. Plenty more where these came from...