Like to be part of India’s UCAV Program: Navy Chief

[gslv mk3]

My own friend is in the Kaveri project. Initially about 2 years back, he was out of work as funds and results both kind of dried up. There was a massive disappointment that public perception of the Kaveri Engine was largely misguided with Kaveri being compared to well established engines whose manufacturers had much larger budgets and experience as compared to more of first attempt project. In his own words of admission, the seniors in the project were heart broken that media had painted a very unfair picture of them.
He was shifted from the Kaveri project about 15 months back along with a core team of about 30 main people from the original project, to initiate an engine based on Kaveri but without after burner stage, to have weight reduction and a superior exhaust redesign to lower the temperature and thermal signature. This is cited as a primary requirement for Stealth type bird...A seperate part of the project is to see how best the SFC can be increased for accommodating longer endurance.
The afterburner separation part is completed. But now the engine with absolute dry thrust and weight lowering cycle is under process. Its expected to be tested in a bench past the new year. There will be multiple tests carried out to certify the whole engine post which the actual replication and testing will be done in a live environment. The engine more or less will complete the certification in 18 months with a outer periphery of 24 months as per internal timelines. The AURA project and another black one for a Long endurance High altitude type is the real issue as designing that UCAV is not fully frozen. According to him, a semi part of this project is a new exhaust vents system which will be used to reduce the thermal signature further. The greenlight to this project is not as per whats declared in media. Stand assured, Ghatak is much more ahead of whats reported in media.

Thanks for the info,bro.

 

[$@rJen]

My own friend is in the Kaveri project. Initially about 2 years back, he was out of work as funds and results both kind of dried up. There was a massive disappointment that public perception of the Kaveri Engine was largely misguided with Kaveri being compared to well established engines whose manufacturers had much larger budgets and experience as compared to more of first attempt project. In his own words of admission, the seniors in the project were heart broken that media had painted a very unfair picture of them.
He was shifted from the Kaveri project about 15 months back along with a core team of about 30 main people from the original project, to initiate an engine based on Kaveri but without after burner stage, to have weight reduction and a superior exhaust redesign to lower the temperature and thermal signature. This is cited as a primary requirement for Stealth type bird...A seperate part of the project is to see how best the SFC can be increased for accommodating longer endurance.
The afterburner separation part is completed. But now the engine with absolute dry thrust and weight lowering cycle is under process. Its expected to be tested in a bench past the new year. There will be multiple tests carried out to certify the whole engine post which the actual replication and testing will be done in a live environment. The engine more or less will complete the certification in 18 months with a outer periphery of 24 months as per internal timelines. The AURA project and another black one for a Long endurance High altitude type is the real issue as designing that UCAV is not fully frozen. According to him, a semi part of this project is a new exhaust vents system which will be used to reduce the thermal signature further. The greenlight to this project is not as per whats declared in media. Stand assured, Ghatak is much more ahead of whats reported in media.

WoooW So ghatak was being developed 18 months Ago!!!! damnnn.. its surprising Since DRDO's big mouths usually talka alot before developing somethings

 

[#hydra#]

Right now,we don't need an UCAV which can be operated from Aircraft Carrier.First UCAVs can be operated from shore based airbases.An UCAV which can operate around 20-30 hours and perform auto refueling is our first target.then we should target something that can be operated from Carrier.Make it too ambitious and it'll be hard to achieve.

But what's wrong in developing a carrier BA's d ucav? We need a flat top AC to launch ucavs and we yet to start building our vishal class aircraft carrier. So this is the right time to start R&D on carrier based UCAVs since it will take minimum a decade or so to develop and by the time vishal also will start float.

 

[Agent_47]

My own friend is in the Kaveri project. Initially about 2 years back, he was out of work as funds and results both kind of dried up. There was a massive disappointment that public perception of the Kaveri Engine was largely misguided with Kaveri being compared to well established engines whose manufacturers had much larger budgets and experience as compared to more of first attempt project. In his own words of admission, the seniors in the project were heart broken that media had painted a very unfair picture of them.
He was shifted from the Kaveri project about 15 months back along with a core team of about 30 main people from the original project, to initiate an engine based on Kaveri but without after burner stage, to have weight reduction and a superior exhaust redesign to lower the temperature and thermal signature. This is cited as a primary requirement for Stealth type bird...A seperate part of the project is to see how best the SFC can be increased for accommodating longer endurance.
The afterburner separation part is completed. But now the engine with absolute dry thrust and weight lowering cycle is under process. Its expected to be tested in a bench past the new year. There will be multiple tests carried out to certify the whole engine post which the actual replication and testing will be done in a live environment. The engine more or less will complete the certification in 18 months with a outer periphery of 24 months as per internal timelines. The AURA project and another black one for a Long endurance High altitude type is the real issue as designing that UCAV is not fully frozen. According to him, a semi part of this project is a new exhaust vents system which will be used to reduce the thermal signature further. The greenlight to this project is not as per whats declared in media. Stand assured, Ghatak is much more ahead of whats reported in media.

Is there any plan to go for 92Kn+ variant of K10? (Which hit road block when french backed out)

Also, who will be producing GE F404/414 engines in india under tot? @Abingdonboy

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Is there any plan to go for 92Kn+ variant of K10? (Which hit road block when french backed out)

Also, who will be producing GE F404/414 engines in india under tot? @Abingdonboy

As of now Ghatak variant is first step planned. Once the success of this is demonstrated then perhaps a uprated Kaveri version would be planned.
The core team of 30 ppl are the actual core team of Kaveri project so I am not sure for a parallel program as of now. If i understand K engine will be made sureshot but i am not sure of the actual timeline due to present focus on Ghatak project.

Yes, possibly a team can be assigned to work on uprated Kaveri if we do tie up a consultant which can actually work and make a difference instead of just giving lip service.

GE 404/414 TOT is difficult as Senate approval has to be there for complete TOT. As of now its just assembling in Chikan Pune. I am not sure as beyond LCA dependency on GE engines would mean either AMCA project with 414s or some other birds order in huge numbers (F18 - 200) to make them share us with TOT. Anyways i still feel depending on USA too much for engine tech may be counterproductive too..

@Abingdonboy Have you heard for any TOT complete for 414s with an Indian Partner?

 

[Agent_47]

As of now Ghatak variant is first step planned. Once the success of this is demonstrated then perhaps a uprated Kaveri version would be planned.

Ghatak is based on the kabani core which has passed valid parameter requirements long before.
improved kaveri has to do with the remaining section which require foreign help.
Parallel is possible, Saurav jha said so few months back.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Ghatak is based on the kabani core which has passed valid parameter requirements long before.
improved kaveri has to do with the remaining section which require foreign help.
Parallel is possible, Saurav jha said so few months back.

Sir, i said its possible but a consultant which actually works for us with honesty is a tough choice for us to find. TBH other than Snecma i thought no one else would be honest with us but even that has not been very good to work out with. GE or anyother company which can help with a partnership will face a direct competition to their jets which they have developed and sold versus our own jet which if successful powers up our Planes (which is gonna increase if we successfully make more LCAs and AMCAs)

The real chance was if we could get an engine TOT in the form of Rafale MII and ask them to help us complete Kaveri for LCAs and say K10+ will not et be a direct competitor to M88 series for Indian orders. We can then focus on that engine for AMCA too.

404/414 are direct competitors for k10+ in LCA itself and in AMCA too. EJ200/230 if we choose for AMCA with TVC can be another good choice but then it limits the engine to LCAs only as AMCA will again get competition between the two.

One last but outside chance is Russians who knows for sure that their engines being too powerful and flanker based will not get competition from K10+ and may get it done for LCA and AMCA. But will MOD GOI be willing to go all the way with Russians for this...

Either way a good way as S Jha pointed out for us to do have a foreign collaborator /consultant. But that can be effective if and only if thats part of the offset for adeal and part of MII plan so that execution is necessay and failure to do gets financial penalties. So question boils down to which jet which engine we should choose to buy in numbers and get the MII offset done which will not canibalise our K program

 

[GR!FF!N]

But what's wrong in developing a carrier BA's d ucav? We need a flat top AC to launch ucavs and we yet to start building our vishal class aircraft carrier. So this is the right time to start R&D on carrier based UCAVs since it will take minimum a decade or so to develop and by the time vishal also will start float.

Cause this same UCAV can be developed to fly from Carrier,just like N-LCA.But if we target that first,then it'll surely going to tough challenge as no Country is yet to field such UCAV operationally.

 

[#hydra#]

Cause this same UCAV can be developed to fly from Carrier,just like N-LCA.But if we target that first,then it'll surely going to tough challenge as no Country is yet to field such UCAV operationally.

I too doubt about the capabilities of ADA,they even struggled a lot on lca,a conventional design with manned cockpit. But now they straight away going behind unmanned combat aircraft that too a flying wing design. Instead i strongly believe they should try aerodynamic design like global hawk with carrier operations in mind . In my opinion it's better to design ucav(weather its flying wing or not) from beginning itself with carrier operations in mind.

 

[surya kiran]

A Bit too ambitious ?

Nah. If these chaps join, we may actually see a product. Instead of it being in perpetual beta.

Right now,we don't need an UCAV which can be operated from Aircraft Carrier.First UCAVs can be operated from shore based airbases.An UCAV which can operate around 20-30 hours and perform auto refueling is our first target.then we should target something that can be operated from Carrier.Make it too ambitious and it'll be hard to achieve.

bhai mere. If the IN is involved, atleast the IAF chaps will order it fearing the imminent erosion of their turf to the IN. Atleast, the IAF version will be operational.
Notice how the IAF is ok with the Mark 1A when they were told wait for the Navy to get theirs before you get yours.