Like army, like nation

[Donatello]

World is not your private bathroom where you can do what you want. The world is a 'baithak' or a 'jirga' where the strongest set of communal ideas cease the day.

NFP is a Marxist,reading him is a reflection of why every single marxist state was destroyed within a 100 years. Marxism vs Islam?...the strongest idea will win.

Yes i agree.

however, state has no right to to tell it's citizens what religion to follow. Like Mastan Khan has stated a numerous times, Justice and law & Order is what state needs to provide. That itself knows no religion. People in the West or the far East where religion is not as fundamentally followed as in Pakistan, perhaps, are still moral. They still live like humans.

 

[Kompromat]

@Donatello

Lashing is not about lashing for the sake of it. Its for punishment. If you read Iqbal's Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam,you will come across the real 'ideology' Pakistan was created on.

Its a sad truth that a vast majority of us Pakistanis haven't even heard of an account which embodies the spirit of Pakistan.

As far as my brother is concerened. Army has raised him in a mould fit for the Army. He's not a panch time ka namazi, however he has well established concepts of Islam,morality and ethics. I found that out after discussing 'Islamic code of war' with him. Im happy to see that they haven't been indoctrinated to become mare killing machines.

 

[Kompromat]

@Donatello

Morality is a bi product of Religion. In Germany the Christian democrats tout 'Germanic values' , In UK you have the 'British way of life' , in the US you have the ''Americanism'', even a bible belt. In Japan they have the 'Shintoo' the Japanese code of life.

Morality in every corner of the world is derieved from Religion or faith etc... Morality forms the basics of Jurisprudence,which every state impliments. Western law is still based around 'The 8 Commandments'.So i wonder if Secularism is real or a facade?

 

[Silverblaze]

The lib Pakistani guys **** me off. They don't know how to pray and start preahcing to us how worship to Allah swt, and follow God.

@Pak-one, this is not pashtun or punjabi thing.

These ppl are munafiq.

Hold on.

Who is a hypocrite? A person living in a western country and teaching others a particular brand of Islam or someone who is highlighting this hypocrisy.

And how the hell these Taliban lovers call someone liberals? May be these liberals have the greatest of respects for Islam.

Living in a country that does not recognize the sovereignty of Allah, and these people come here to teach Islam.

Good day gentlemen.

@Donatello

Morality is a bi product of Religion. In Germany the Christian democrats tout 'Germanic values' , In UK you have the 'British way of life' , in the US you have the ''Americanism'', even a bible belt. In Japan they have the 'Shintoo' the Japanese code of life.

Morality in every corner of the world is derieved from Religion or faith etc... Morality forms the basics of Jurisprudence,which every state impliments. Western law is still based around 'The 8 Commandments'.So i wonder if Secularism is real or a facade?

what makes you think that secularism negates morality. You yourself very aptly described morality extracted out of religion, but secularism does not negate that concept.

Secularism is more focused on crime which is directly related to public harm.

Secularism does vary from culture to culture. It does not mean that people would become europeans over night, it means that egalitarianism must prevail.

 

[Mav3rick]

Typical knee jerk reaction from a typical Pakistani. Talk about alcohol and they start preaching Hadith and Quran as if they the masters of the both.

Oh bhai, why is our country so f**ked up? Alcohol is banned. Adultery is banned. Still then? Something is wrong somewhere, right?

Something is wrong alright, its people like YOU!

Our problem is that a very small minority actually follows the teachings and guidelines set by Islam, most of us are Muslims only by name, not by heart.

separation of mosque and state should happen. fully agree.

And why wouldn't you agree on anything and everything so long as it is against Islam or Muslims??

you cannot enfore religion. if you do tht, it stops being a religion and becomes an authoriarian concept

Religion cannot be enforced, agreed. But guiding principles can be enforced especially on those who follow that particular religion. If Islam prohibits something then it should be prohibited in Muslim countries, period.

 

[Mav3rick]

unfortunately thats the reality in todays world. islam is used as a rallying point to create blasts

On the contrary, most of the blasts are carried out by non Muslims, usually in high tech Jets or through drones!!

 

[livingdead]

was getting bored of NFP's rants, but this one is more informative. Good one OP.

 

[Donatello]

Something is wrong alright, its people like YOU!

Our problem is that a very small minority actually follows the teachings and guidelines set by Islam, most of us are Muslims only by name, not by heart.

I get it. So you are the right kind of Muslim and i am not. Please tell me how you arrived at that conclusion. Did an angel come down to let you know?

 

[Contrarian]

Lashing is not about lashing for the sake of it. Its for punishment. If you read Iqbal's Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam,you will come across the real 'ideology' Pakistan was created on.

There is no ideology for which Pakistan was created.

Pakistan was created because before the time of independence elite Muslims were afraid of losing the power and influence they had as democracy would have made sure they lost their clout.
The common Muslims were sold the fear that Hindus and Sikhs would be out for blood in retribution for the Mughal rein, that Islam would be put in danger.

It was a combination of interests and not ideology.

'Ideology of Pakistan' was created long after Pakistan was already formed.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Why does being liberal have to be related to serving wine and alcohol---. You can still be liberal and hold your values.

Very well said.
This is exactly what I've been saying.

I am very liberal, I believe that Pakistan should be more secular.

I believe that people should do as they please as long as it's a personal choice.

Whether a man lives the life of a good muslim?
That's not between me and him, that is between him and God.

Equally, I am for a more secular Pakistan, I am liberal.
But at the same time, I do not drink, I pray 5 times a day and recite the Qur'an.

 

[Contrarian]

Religion cannot be enforced, agreed. But guiding principles can be enforced especially on those who follow that particular religion. If Islam prohibits something then it should be prohibited in Muslim countries, period.

Why?
If Islam prohibits something then Muslims should just not consume it.
Why does the State have to dictate
1. It is a Muslim State.
2. Define who is Muslim and who is not (ref Ahmadis)

Why can it just not decide that it is a State that will protect and ensure prosperity for all those who reside in it without getting in religion.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Our problem is that a very small minority actually follows the teachings and guidelines set by Islam, most of us are Muslims only by name, not by heart.

Meaning that religion...

Is not between the state and the individual.
Rather a personal matter, between the individual and God.

 

[Jungibaaz]

If Islam prohibits something then it should be prohibited in Muslim countries, period.

Have you ever lived abroad?

I have, people around me drink alcohol, there's a pubs (bars) everywhere and people here drink, I don't, my beliefs and my God told me not to, so I stay away from it. But has the fact that others drink around me got in the way of me being a good Muslim? Absolutely not.

We Pakistanis and we muslims are the biggest hypocrites ever.
We shout bloody murder when someone says that laws should be relaxed, we brand them liberal lunatics.
but at the same time, us Muslims in our millions, lie, steal, don't pray and completely go against everything our religion has taught us.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Does that mean you will give attention to your starving and poorer than Africa compatriots?

What is written in the piece in the OP needs some sense and intelligence to fathom.
Now those are not common attributes at all.........

 

[Jango]

Why does being liberal have to be related to serving wine and alcohol---. You can still be liberal and hold your values.

Those sort of people are called wannabe liberals!

A liberal is supposed to be truly free, not having a problem with anyone. But when a burqa clad woman has a problem with a bikini, she is called a fundamentalist and extremist, while when a wannabe liberal is going after a burqa clad women, she is called a champion of freedom!

In reality, both shouldn't be having a problem with the other, especially the self proclaimed liberal.