Lieutenant General, who led Operation Blue Star, attacked in London

[Abingdonboy]

ha ha ha .......

It is on the net also.

Please find it yourself or better ask some one in the Indian Army.

The percentage of Sikh soldiers joining Indian Army was reduced.

Not buying it at all!

Actually she is. We have a neighbor who is MBA from elite B School, earns over 50,000 per month , runs NGO for education,...all fine....but he misdirect villagers against the state government. State government wants forest region to be secure due to dwindling number of species, they want to keep buffer state. Villagers don't understand it and they are enabled by these Maoists supporting faction of our society. This can turn into bloodshed anyday.

And the thing is forest is used villagers to graze their cattle and when an animal attacks them, they kill it.

These type pf people are the real enemy. They use poor people for their twisted goals.

Tell the police. Hopefully this gets to IB.

 

[Always Neutral]

Either you misunderstood the topic or have a point, in case of the latter, please elaborate......

So the guy who leads the war in Baloch is a traitor?

Dont blame us we just follow orders whether it is somalia or Iran. opps sorry we dont operate there.

 

[KRAIT]

Report him to Police ASAP.

He is already under watch.

Report him to Police ASAP.

He is already under watch.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I dont know the name of the village in punjab.In that village since 25 yrs,no marriage took place.

Why?

coz all males were killed and few days back i heard that few of them got married who were childrens in 84 and even many of the babies got killed.

and dont forget,how sikh women were raped just to convert them to hindus..its called as operation shudikaran...

so leave congress or leave bjp...every body took part in this operation... ..

many of us are not informed about the whole incident and we call many of innocents as terrorist just due to brainwashing by our country..

Please show me, as a great personal favour, a single independent source for the proclaimed intentions of this operation, other than Khalistanis and extremist Sikh web sites.

There is a background to this.

In 1969-70, when the Naxalites were in full cry in Calcutta, it became impossible for the police force (less than 18,000 for a population of 12 million) to enter certain areas. Those then became naxal no-go areas, called Muktanchal. These were the bases for the terrorists, and they knew that they were safe there. These were where they stored their arms and ammunition, and from where they struck out in urban guerrilla actions. It was at that time that the army and the police came together to work out a clearing and holding operation. The method adopted was that an area would be taken up; police HQ at Lalbazar alone would plan the operation with the army; the area would be cordoned off by the army; the local thana would then and only then be informed; they would enter the cordoned area and search every house, every room, every roof, every garden. They would examine and identify every civilian found against election records; those not identified were interrogated on the spot, and a certain proportion would be taken to the thana for further investigation.

This broke the back of the Calcutta operation of the Naxalites and they shifted operations to the countryside. The same methods were used, with Siddhartha Ray, the CM, supervising, the same police chief from Calcutta, promoted from commissioner to inspector general, and for GOC-IN-C, in place of Jagjit Arora, it was Jake Jacob. The methods were modified for obvious reasons but the principles remained identical. General Shankar RoyChoudhury was then a young brigade major and spoke about his participation in these operations, and the clean and bloodless way they were conducted.

The post 1984 cleaning operations were under the supervision of the governor of the Punjab, as there was no elected party to hold office. He used what he had seen happen, and instructed Gill, the inspector general and then the director general of the Punjab, to follow the same methods.

Shuddhikaran was a purification ceremony. The allusion was to the purification of the villages of the extremist cells that Bhindranwale had left behind. It had nothing to do with the vile accusations that appear on Sikh extremist web-sites. The governor was not a Hindu communalists, in fact, a grandson of C. R. Das, he came from the family that had supported Fazlul Huq's rise, and his relationship with the Sikh community was warm. The president of India was Zail Singh, not just a Gursikh but a Giani. The commander of the army in the Punjab was a Sikh. Gill was a Gursikh as well.

It must be evident to any but the most brain-damaged extremist that this line-up would hardly be interested in genetic engineering through rape.

Where is the story being spread? In trash sites; and these are the things printed at one:

Part of the following article was taken from a page on the internet by the World Muslim-Sikh Federation, 90-A, The Broadway, Southall, Middlesex, England. The article outlines some of the atrocities of an operation called Operation Wood Rose carried out by the Indian Army in the days and months after the attack on the Harmandar Sahib in 1984.


Need we see more?

 

[Ticker]

I really sincerely wish that you be careful about what you say, rather than 'gushing'.

Gobind Ram was not a part of Blue Star. He was not even an SSP at the time of Blue Star. All that he did was months afterwards, during k. P. S. Gill's clean up operations, which swept the Punjab clean of terrorists.

If by 1984, you mean Blue Star, i fail utterly to see what we should be apologizing for.

Exactly as in Kargil, Indian Army soldiers took huge casualties by going in at point blank range against machine gun lines of fire. When they finally broke through, they were under orders not to fire at the Akal Takht or Harmandir Sahib. The Akal Takht was damaged when cleaning out the Khalistanis who had goner ground there.

A good comparison would be the horrific way in which the Mecca mosque had to be cleared, against a similar fanatic religiously motivated enemy.

If by 1984, you mean Indira Gandhi's assassination, I can't understand what apology is necessary.

If by 1984, you mean the anti-Sikh riots, then it is not an apology but convictions and punishment of the instigators that is needed.

I went for Haj the very next year and physically saw what you call the horrific way in which Macca Mosque had to be cleared. I was though very small, but I do clearly remember what I saw. The only damage that I saw was in the basement. I thought I remember a probable bullet hole on the Kaaba itself and nothing more. You see the Kaaba is covered by a specially made cloth. I did not see any damage to that. Which means there was not damage to Kaaba itself.

 

[KRAIT]

Not buying it at all!
Tell the police. Hopefully this gets to IB.

There is already COBRA team working in that area as ISI has its foot pront there. One can see this team easily.
IB already knows it. But the person who I am talking about also knows people in IB. His way is peaceful protest but he enjoy killing of CRPF.

Its disturbing and at the same time seems fine as he is responsible for education of hundreds of kids rather than funding extremism.

We can't charge him until any violence is incited by him.

Not buying it at all!
Tell the police. Hopefully this gets to IB.

There is already COBRA team working in that area as ISI has its foot pront there. One can see this team easily.
IB already knows it. But the person who I am talking about also knows people in IB. His way is peaceful protest but he enjoy killing of CRPF.

Its disturbing and at the same time seems fine as he is responsible for education of hundreds of kids rather than funding extremism.

We can't charge him until any violence is incited by him.

 

[Abingdonboy]

He is already under watch.

He is already under watch.

How do you know this??



+ guys can we stop this questioning of the Sikhs' loyalties? Many of the men from SF and regular IA who took part were themselves Sikhs but true to the IA beliefs they put their mission first. You won't find a more patriotic Indian than a Sikh. I feel it is counter-intuitive and incredibly insulting to question the loyalties of a community who have shed plenty of blood for INDIA.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I can vouch for the fact that many many Sikhs in the UK, America and Canada hate the indian state and armed forces with a passion.

I can vouch that even more don't. I personally know many, none of them are 'Khalistanis'. Very much proud of their ancestral land.

 

[Abingdonboy]

There is already COBRA team working in that area as ISI has its foot pront there. One can see this team easily.
IB already knows it. But the person who I am talking about also knows people in IB. His way is peaceful protest but he enjoy killing of CRPF.

Its disturbing and at the same time seems fine as he is responsible for education of hundreds of kids rather than funding extremism.

We can't charge him until any violence is incited by him.

Alas the eternal problem faced by free democratic societies!!

I can vouch for the fact that many many Sikhs in the UK, America and Canada hate the indian state and armed forces with a passion.

The same Sikhs who visit India annually ??

 

[harpoon]

There is already COBRA team working in that area as ISI has its foot pront there. One can see this team easily.
IB already knows it. But the person who I am talking about also knows people in IB. His way is peaceful protest but he enjoy killing of CRPF.

Its disturbing and at the same time seems fine as he is responsible for education of hundreds of kids rather than funding extremism.

We can't charge him until any violence is incited by him.

Same as in Koodamkulam..one cannot charge Udayakumar of inciting violence, but his protests are close to putting cap on the 15,000 crore project.

 

[Ticker]

BS- nothing changed. "mutinies"??!!! Really?? "mutinies"??!! Pull the other one!! Some discord but nothing serious. Go to a recruiting ralley in Punjab and see how many Sikh men are there- go to any regiment and tell me how many Sikhs are there.

I will just post one such report. And now don't start questioning the source.

Mutiny by Sikhs in Indian army
COMMANDING OFFICER SLAIN

Toronto Sun
June 11, 1984

NEW DELHI, India (UPI) — Sikh sol*diers in the Indian army rebelled in three places yesterday and killed their commanding officer in one instance, officials said.

At least three people were killed in the widely scattered mutinies sparked by an army assault last week on the holiest shrine of the Sikh religion, the Golden Temple in the Punjab city of Amritsar. More than 450 people were killed in the attack ordered by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

Troops of the Sikh regimental centre at Ramgarh camp in Bihar state, 804 km (about 500 miles) east of New Delhi, murdered their commander, Brig. Gen. R.S. Puri, a defence ministry spokesman said.

Two other senior officers and a number of soldiers were seriously wounded in heavy shooting at the camp that began before noon and continued until 4 p.m.

Police said the soldiers joined other angry Sikhs in hijacking private buses and trucks at gunpoint. They set out in at least 35 seized vehicles toward New Delhi before reinforcements from the 24th mountain regiment arrived to stop them.

Sikh soldiers remaining behind at the camp raised a white flag of surrender when the reinforcements arrived.

Soldiers, believed to be Sikhs, also rebelled near Pune, 1,448 km (about 900 miles) southwest of New Delhi, the Press Trust of India reported.

Police said soldiers travelling in three military vehicles fired at passing cars and trucks, killing at least one person and injuring another.

The newspaper, Indian Express, carried details of a third mutiny that had been categorically denied by an official government spokesman.

It quoted eyewitnesses saying Sikh mutineers in Sri Ganganagar district, 643 km (400 miles) west of New Delhi, seized nine jeeps and four trucks on Friday. The troops killed one policeman and wounded another on their way toward the border with Punjab about 30 miles away.

Sikh soldiers make up about 10% of the Indian army and hold many of the top ranks

 

[Always Neutral]

I went for Haj the very next year and physically saw what you call the horrific way in which Macca Mosque had to be cleared. I was though very small, but I do clearly remember what I saw. The only damage that I saw was in the basement. I thought I remember a probable bullet hole on the Kaaba itself and nothing more. You see the Kaaba is covered by a specially made cloth. I did not see any damage to that. Which means there was not damage to Kaaba itself.

Lets stick closer to home? Lal Masjid guess u went try and how about posting some photos? The kaaba was clearly damaged yest someone repaired and millions pray to it. Stop this hipocracy. Mecca Madina vatican and Hindu temples as well CPC can be destroyed as they are created by man and hence can be Destroyed by man.

accept it and enjoy it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I will just post one such report. And now don't start questioning the source.

Mutiny by Sikhs in Indian army
COMMANDING OFFICER SLAIN

Toronto Sun
June 11, 1984

NEW DELHI, India (UPI) — Sikh sol*diers in the Indian army rebelled in three places yesterday and killed their commanding officer in one instance, officials said.

At least three people were killed in the widely scattered mutinies sparked by an army assault last week on the holiest shrine of the Sikh religion, the Golden Temple in the Punjab city of Amritsar. More than 450 people were killed in the attack ordered by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

Troops of the Sikh regimental centre at Ramgarh camp in Bihar state, 804 km (about 500 miles) east of New Delhi, murdered their commander, Brig. Gen. R.S. Puri, a defence ministry spokesman said.

Two other senior officers and a number of soldiers were seriously wounded in heavy shooting at the camp that began before noon and continued until 4 p.m.

Police said the soldiers joined other angry Sikhs in hijacking private buses and trucks at gunpoint. They set out in at least 35 seized vehicles toward New Delhi before reinforcements from the 24th mountain regiment arrived to stop them.

Sikh soldiers remaining behind at the camp raised a white flag of surrender when the reinforcements arrived.

Soldiers, believed to be Sikhs, also rebelled near Pune, 1,448 km (about 900 miles) southwest of New Delhi, the Press Trust of India reported.

Police said soldiers travelling in three military vehicles fired at passing cars and trucks, killing at least one person and injuring another.

The newspaper, Indian Express, carried details of a third mutiny that had been categorically denied by an official government spokesman.

It quoted eyewitnesses saying Sikh mutineers in Sri Ganganagar district, 643 km (400 miles) west of New Delhi, seized nine jeeps and four trucks on Friday. The troops killed one policeman and wounded another on their way toward the border with Punjab about 30 miles away.

Sikh soldiers make up about 10% of the Indian army and hold many of the top ranks

Nobody mentions the Sikhs in the IA (the VAST majority) who did NOTHING!!



And anyway I have serious doubts about this news.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir,

It was just a reflection of my own views. I know the Indian posters would not take it in that spirit. I sat down with some of the Sikh friends and other family members on certain occasions and heard their stories. Stories of some guys who saw stuff when they were kids. The horror and the anger could be seen in their eyes.

You people in your nationalistic spirit may not want to listen - it is up to you. I also know that when such fights take place, it is the innocents who suffer the most. The families of those who decide to cross the rubicon pay the ultimate price.

I have read both the operations in great many details and have sat down even with some of the oldies who took part in the first operation and the second one. The second operation was probably better handled than the first one due to lessons learned during the first one i.e. Operation Bluestar.

However, no matter how the Sikh people are more prosperous and wealthy etc in India, I have seen the hurt and the anger. I assure you Sir, it is not going to go away so easy, irrespective of your real-politik laden observations.

against the fanciful stories you have 'sat down' and listened to the oldies tell you, I have my own day-to-day experiences. In that period of 84 and 85, I was a traveling manager with my own team in various states and spent over 21 days a month in travel. I was in the Punjab at the worst times and saw how people were visibly losing hope. There was no law and order; the justice system was packing up. People like the Pahwas of Avon Cycles were thinking of pulling out permanently, nd they were from traditional stock, where the eldest son is always baptized Sikh. You can imagine the state of their bigger neighbors, the Munjals.

Please be sure that this will never be allowed to recur, and that this is why the country insists that peace be made with the Indian constitution as a framework. Once this is accepted, all else is negotiable. That is how the Nagas were brought in, then the Mizos, then the Ahoms. That is the only solution for anyone and everyone else. What disgruntled and emotional individuals feel is finally of no consequence. As long as Sikhs vote, and hold office, and elect the president, and pay taxes, they can feel as hurt as they like, but they will get nothing out of it.

 

[Ticker]

begani shaadi mein abdullah deewana

Every family have few internal matters to resolve and so does we have ..

so aap door hi raho to acha hai ..

kindly stick to indus valley civilization

You can go and lump it tin horn.

Kis ki shaadi aur kon deewana .....

aapas ki baat my foot. phir apnay ghar jaa kar konay mein kharray ho kar choon choon karo.

This is an open forum aur tum shayed samajh raha hai ke yahan tamam log kana phoosi kar rahay hein.

pata nahin kon banda hai ye. damagh istimaal karo kabhi kabhi. Idiot.