What's new

Libya: Qaddhafi Violates Ceasefire, Foreign Forces Mount Attack

Thanks for your adroit post. The Libyan rebels per se have no air force is my only corrective comment, unless you interpret the NATO air forces when and if engaged to be the air arm of or for the rebels. Your points otherwise are very logical. Thanks for your views
 
. .
What the hell india has to do with this issue or anything ? stick to the topic.
 
.
CNN live cable TV news in the US reports this afternoon, Friday, March 18, 2011, that no cease fire is being observed by the Kadafi armed forces and attacks continue against cities in Western Libya.

Kadafi know says he will start shooting down civilian airliners.

All civilian air traffic into and out of Libya is of course shut down and will remain shut for the duration.

CNN News includes films of attacking Libyan air craft and rebels returning fire with inadequate anti aircraft weaponry from the ground. These films are of today, not ancient clips.

you never cared about libyan or arab despots before, you dont care about pakistani despots, because they serve your interests, but now you do?


sickening and a fraud.
 
.
This is also being compared with the saudi aid to Bahrain.

Good comparison!
The Saudi despots rushed to defend a fellow tyrant in Bahrain and to kill protestors.
The BRIC is supporting a mad dog tyrant while he is massacring his people.

you never cared about libyan or arab despots before, you dont care about pakistani despots, because they serve your interests, but now you do?

The Libyan people didn't rise up and demand democracy before. Now that they are fighting for their rights, this mad dog is hunting them down. At least the West has shown courage to support the people against the dictator.
 
.
where will the oil go, and to who?


where is the outrage about s.arabia's backward oppressive regime?


why is there outrage over what gadaffi has done, but silence on the 100000 dead iraqi's?

why does bahrain not deserve reform, justice and democracy?

how many will the americans kill this time?

why did bush and blair embrace gadaffi? were the freedoms of the libyans not significant then?


why create another theatre of war in the ME?
Nobody is after oil. Oil is not like a single diamond that you can just take and leave. For americans to have libyan oil under their control, they have to occupy and rule libya( till oil is over). Dont you think it is cheaper to buy oil in open market than do that?
 
.
A ‘no-fly zone’ won't work

Libya has a large armory of both planes and anti-aircraft guns that have trained over decades for the eventuality of an outside attack. The Libyan military may not be the most sophisticated outfit in the world but it can cause a lot of trouble.

Jonathan Power

Libyan military may not be very sophisticated but it can cause a lot of trouble
To intervene or not to intervene in Libya, that is the question. Indeed, the next two lines of Hamlet's soliloquy are also apposite: "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against the sea of troubles, and by opposing end them?"
The way the civil war is raging it is becoming clear that, as James Clapper, director of US National Intelligence, said last week, "Over the longer term the regime will prevail." Only outside intervention can save the rebel cause. But, as the US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates has pointed out, anyone who advocates a third large scale army military intervention in Asia "needs his head examined." Iraq and Afghanistan are a full enough plate. Moreover, both show up as living examples of the dangers of intervention even though at the onset it all looked so right - to end the protection of Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan and the toppling of a threatening tyrant in Iraq.
Let's concentrate on consolidating what's been won in Egypt and Tunisia rather than being sucked into a Libyan maelstrom which has a different violent character altogether. But, say the interventionists, we have rung our hands for not intervening in Rwanda and halting the pogroms. We have preferred negotiation in Sudan than intervention, even though it took decades to fashion a peace agreement by the diplomatic route whilst hundreds of thousands were killed or tortured. In Somalia when intervention (under a UN mandate) started to claim US soldiers' lives (not very many) President Bill Clinton ordered the US contingent out, leaving Somalia to anarchy which continues to this day with one consequence being the pirates of the Indian ocean and another making one more home for Al-Qaeda.
The airwaves seem to be bristling with a compromise - no intervention with boots on the ground but a "no fly zone," so that Col. Muammar Qaddafi's air force can't operate. A meeting of the Arab League has now called for such a "no-fly zone." President Barack Obama has backed the call up, although at the UN the US position seems more ambiguous. Britain and France have drafted a UN resolution to authorize its creation. Although Russia and China have been prevaricating the decision of the Arab League will have an influence on their traditional attitude to not approving outside intervention.
A "no fly zone" sounds nice and straightforward. In practice it is not. It cannot compare with the one imposed on Iraq at the end of the First Gulf War. Then Britain and the US, the enforcers, faced no hostile air force. Iraq's planes had either fled to Iran or had been destroyed. The number of high-class anti-aircraft batteries were few and far between.
Libya has a large armory of both planes and anti-aircraft guns that have trained over decades for the eventuality of an outside attack. The Libyan military may not be the most sophisticated outfit in the world but it can cause a lot of trouble.
Imagine the situation if the Security Council authorizes the implementation of a "no-fly zone." It would involve the planes of the US, NATO (including its one Muslim member, Turkey) and perhaps Egypt, all countries in which public opinion plays an important role. It would be "rah rah rah" at the beginning. But once planes were shot out of the sky there would be popular pressure to go in and sort out the Libyans on the ground. The dangers foreseen by Robert Gates would come to pass. Popular opinion in the Arab states would be torn between those who want to overthrow Qaddafi and those whose anti-Americanism and anti-Western feelings still run deep. Even in Tunisia and Egypt, the two countries where the pro-democracy rebellions have had most success, the voters in the countryside and among the poorer less educated urban proletariat are still very much attached to the old deposed regimes and the attitudes that went with it. "The Arab Street" still exists even if it's split.
The "no fly zone" is a risky proposition. The Libyan civil war is perhaps going to run and run. Outsiders can't just hover at 40,000 feet for years on end. Where, this time, is the exit strategy?
The non-violent sanctions so far approved by the Security Council are pretty hefty. Libya's overseas bank accounts have been frozen. Arms shipments are effectively frozen with US naval ships close off the Libyan coast able to monitor all comings and goings. There is talk of boycotting Libya's oil exports.
Give them time to work, but try to make sure that they don't cause the poorer peoples of Libya to suffer. Keep up the relief operations. Work to divide the leadership around Qaddafi.
It will take time. But it is less flamboyant, less politically charged, less likely to trigger a backlash and, in the foreseeable future, promises success.



Jonathan Power is a foreign affairs commentator and analyst based in London
 
.
Gaddaffi has pulled up the right card at right moment. Britain & France were raving to go for the kills, now they would have to chew their words. It was force used by gaddafi that allowed external forces to enforce no-fly zone, now that if a proper cease fire is offered no chance of any retaliation from brits & french. Hell they have put lot of money in libyan oil fields, for sure they are going to pay the price .....if they act, libyan airforce will strike those assets in retaliation
 
.
Jesus christ, do you listen to what you`re saying? What about the THOUSANDS of dead Libyan Arabs since this started? No sympathy for them because they "must be supported by the Israelis and the US"?


From Gulf War 1

 
Last edited by a moderator:
. .
Them dogs in Lebanon vote for this too!!!! Dont come crying to us when Israel bombs you next time!

How many people have USA killed by air strikes in Iraq/Serbia/Afghanistan?
 
.
Them dogs in Lebanon vote for this too!!!! Dont come crying to us when Israel bombs you next time!

How many people have USA killed by air strikes in Iraq/Serbia/Afghanistan?

When did they ever come to you?
 
.
Poor Gaddafi, Libya is just too small and weak. U.K. and France jumped out for the attack.

No-fly zone?

I think North Korea has done far worse and I did not see any country jumped out to set up a no-fly zone there. I do not think any such no-fly zone is set up in Iran as well. Russia has bombed Georgia severely and I do not see any country dare to set up a no-fly zone there either.

BTW, China has crashed Tibet riots several times and I do not see a no-fly zone there as well.

Well, they just pick the small, weak tomato and show their "power".

What a great show here.
 
.
F-22 jets May Be First Enforcer of Libyan No-Fly Zone

With the United Nations authorization for an internationally monitored no-fly zone over Libya, it seems clear that the United States will play a role enforcing it.

It is not yet clear exactly that U.S. military's role would be. The White House has made clear it wants help in particular from other countries in the Middle East. All planning could be altered by reports of a truce between Libyan leader Col. Moammar Gadhafi and rebel forces in Benghazi.

But Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norman Schwartz provided a House panel with some insights on what the United States could do, beginning with the deployment of F-22 stealth fighters, which can avoid Libyan air defenses. While some have said that the implementation of a no-fly zone could begin within hours, Schwartz said it would take "upwards of a week" to implement a no-fly zone.

As for what the U.S. could offer to help: "It would entail numerous assets. Certainly fighter aircraft, F-16, F-15, both air to ground and anti- radiation capabilities." He said the F-22 stealth fighter "would be useful, and I would have the expectation that at least in the early days it certainly would be used." F-22's are based only in the U.S.

Fighter jets need support, however. In addition, surveillance aircraft and tankers to fuel all the other planes would be needed. Schwartz called the mobilization of a "total force sort of application."

"You've going to have RC-135s, you're going to have surveillance kinds of capabilities that would be used to surveil both the integrated air defense system and others areas as tasked. You'll have tankers to support the short-legged platforms.

You would have Compass Call and other capabilities that, again, can jam communications and affect the effectiveness of the integrated air defense and so on. And you would have undoubtedly some bomber aircraft that would give you long dwell over specific target areas.

Compass Call is the name given to a specialized C-130 that provides electronic jamming of radars, communications, etc. RC-135's are specialized intelligence gathering aircraft that specializes in communications intercepts.

"So the bottom line, if we do this, this is a complete kind of a total force sort of application of our air and space capabilities," he said.

KBOI News/Talk 670 - Boise, Idaho
 
.
Gaddafi called a ceasefire. But still the bombs fell

The warplane streaked across the sky, emerging through low clouds as its missiles landed, orange flames rising under dark plumes of smoke. A few minutes later came shattering volleys of artillery shells and rockets, announcing that Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's forces were moving forward.

This was Libya's eastern front line, two hours and six minutes after the regime in Tripoli had officially declared a ceasefire after the UN resolution authorising military action in Libya.

In the west, tanks from Colonel Gaddafi's forces rolled into the town of Misrata, the last remaining pocket of resistance in the region, where forces shelled homes, hospitals and a mosque, killing six people, according to local doctors who pleaded that a blockade be lifted allowing supplies of medicine and food to get in.

Last night there were reports that instead of withdrawing from cities they had occupied, as President Barack Obama had demanded, Colonel Gaddafi's forces were advancing further towards Benghazi, the eastern rebel stronghold. Regime troops were seen at Maghrun crossing, having moved a further 10 miles east following a barrage of rocket and mortar fire.

The day had started with the promise of a new beginning for this country. People in what remains of "Free Libya" celebrated the UN resolution, which they hoped would be their deliverance from Colonel Gaddafi's threat that they would be shown "no mercy".

Then came the announcement that he had ordered a cessation of hostilities and offered negotiations. But there was little joy at the news. Few in the crowds thronging rebel-held Benghazi in an afternoon of sunshine believed that peace was about to break out. Many queued to implore the international community, which had acted at last, not to accept at face value the words of a man who had killed and persecuted so many of his fellow citizens.

What, they asked, would be the fate of those already in the clutches of Colonel Gaddafi's henchmen, facing retribution in the towns and cities recaptured from the revolution in brutal offensives over the past few weeks?

"There have been men dragged away from their wives and children on the words of masked informers. Would they simply be forgotten?" asked Hania Ferousi, a university lecturer.

Sixty miles away in Sultan, where the retreating fighters of the revolution – known as the Shabaab – were making a stand, the war continued.

Eight were killed in Zuwaytina after leaving their house at Ajdabiya, under regime control following days of fierce fighting. The bodies of four adults and three children lay by the side of the road, covered by blankets. A little further on, propped up in the front passenger seat of a battered black Daiwa saloon, was an elderly man, still, mouth open as if he was asleep.

Faiz al-Beidi, who was driving by in his pick-up truck, had attempted to retrieve the corpses but had to flee when regime soldiers arrived. "They were just firing, at everyone, for no reason," he said. "We are Muslims, I wanted to see these poor people were given proper burial, but they stopped even that."

The civilians, Mr Al-Beidi and the rebels insisted, had been murdered in cold blood by Gaddafi's soldiers, a claim impossible to verify. But 10 miles to the east, at Abdullah Athi, another driver, Nasr Mohammed, showed bullet marks on his Opel saloon as his wife sat in the back hugging two children, one of them a little boy with a large bandage on his temple. "He was cut by flying glass. A Gaddafi soldier at a checkpoint just opened fire. My boy could have been blinded," Mr Mohammed said.

"We were leaving Ajdabiya because I knew that if any of my family get injured in the fighting the hospital would not be able to save them. They have patients lying on floors. We need the Americans, the French, the British to come in with medicine and aid. They should concentrate on that, give weapons to the Shabaab and let us fight for our own country."

The Shabaab fighters at Sultan had looked a beaten force, hammered and chased by Gaddafi troops through town after town: first Bin Jawad, then Ras Lanuf, Brega, Ajdabiya. Names which induced shudders in some of them.

Yesterday, they were no longer looking haunted. The rebels were convinced that France and Britain would start attacks within hours, enabling them to roll forward into Ajdabiya. They were keen to discuss what kind of planes would be used. Gaddafi's elderly air force would be no match for Mirages and Tornados, they agreed.

Maroud Bwisir, a musician and café owner, had brought along his Spanish guitar and sang with his comrades. The group broke up as an enemy aircraft appeared, banking to drop bombs on a Shabaab position to the right.

"What happened to the no-fly zone?" cried Mohammed al-Haddad. "They promised us that they will stop the planes and that was last night. Are they going to wait until Benghazi falls before we have the no-fly zone?"

Gaddafi called a ceasefire. But still the bombs fell - Africa, World - The Independent
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom