Liberation War martyrs would exceed 30 lac: Mamun

[LaBong]

First off, it was not any liberation war to start with as we were completely liberated in an independent country that fulfilled all the criteria of 'Nation state' under UN. 2ndly, there wasn't any referendum or vote to break away from PAK's federation unlike 1946's one on whether to choose PAK or remain with IND. Thirdly, the entirety of the Liberation-Struggle's hodge-podge was the fruit of Bharati+their dalal's engineered 'Creative Chaos'; the seed of which was planted even before PAK was created. Fourthly, current BDians were fortunate to have their plebiscites in 1946 unlike Kashmiris but Kashmiri strugglers were called 'Terrorists' whilst PAK's secessionists were named 'Muktijuddhas' that was Bharati's hypocrisy at its worst. 5thly, by 'Force and deception' illusion of reality could be created but after the removal of cloud, truth emerges and today's Razakars are those, who are seeing clear pictures of their country from historical, economical and strategically perspective. Finally, the world is run by 'Might is right' theory and BD has been created by the mighty enemy of 90% of its people; although their frustration of being contained, undone and powerless is Razakari to you but that's just purely natural IMO.

Well Rajakars could be all good and righteous to you, it doesn't matter to me as long as I don't see Rajakars all around my place and they try to kill me and sell my sisters. But hey thanks for proving what said about some people on this forum being related to Rajakars.

 

[M_Saint]

Well Rajakars could be all good and righteous to you, it doesn't matter to me as long as I don't see Rajakars all around my place and they try to kill me and sell my sisters. But hey thanks for proving what said about some people on this forum being related to Rajakars.

'Sharta shidder jannay Malaun ra Oder Maa, Boonder beste O Dhida Kore Na', was told by wise people and you just did the same thing but cunningly putting blame on RAZAKAR's phantomism..

 

[fallstuff]

She was expecting a lot more traction from this sham trial, what a du^ma*s.

 

[eastwatch]

History is written by the historians, but the history of bangladesh liberation war was written by the AL and Indian joint propaganda machines in order to bring world sympathy towards the Bangalis of east Pakistan. I am in favour of an independent bangladesh, so I would agree to the liberation war. But, I am aghast with the still ensuing propaganda of an unproved number of killings, which is an impossible figure considering the time span of the war.

In Vietnam, there were about 1+ million killings during its 30 yr. old liberation war against France and then USA. The difference is Vietnamese have all the names of victims whereas we do not have. When a new skeleton is found with the sign of a bullet wound he is added it to the list along with his name. Similar things should have been done in Bangladesh.

But, the callous AL people would not allow such things. AL has hijacked the history of killings in order to keep on fueling an absurd figure to win popularity when that AL itself is responsible for the killings because they were unprepared to save the lives. There is still time that the govt releases the documents it has prepared by order of Sk. Mujib.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

^^^

I am slightly confused as to how Bangladeshi's view the 1971 'betrayal'. So just to clear the air please advise if Bengali's think-

1. Pak Army raped, plundered and murdered innocent Bengali's and that Pakistan should apologize to Bengali's.

2. Pak Army was just bringing law and order to the wild Bengali's elemants and thus following orders. That it never raped any Bengali women [or if such acts took place they were consensual] Pak Army never murdered innocent civilians and in fact was fighting against criminal Bengali elemants working for India. If this is so then a apology is due to Pakistan from the Bengali's.

3. Following on from the above Indian Army rescued/saved and freed the Bengali's from Pak Army and helped to give birth to free Bangladesh. If this is so Bengali's need to say a big 'thank you' to India.

4. That the Indian Army was wrong in liberating Bengali's from Pakistan. Therefore India should apologize for having created Bangladesh. Members of mukti Bahini should be tried in courts for high treason.

Simple Yes or No would do thank you in advance.

 

[eastwatch]

@Atanz, you are asking people to answer many 'Either black or white' questions, when, in reality, there were many brown spots in between these two. Do not make a mistake by dreaming sweet about our own people's determination to get rid of west Pakistani army onslaught. It was the people of the then east Pakistan who wanted to untie the relationship with west Pakistan once the west Pakistan-based military and political establishment failed to honour the results of 1970 election.

It was not India that liberated us, rather Indian army was used by our Liberation Army to give both parties a win. Without our direct fighting alongside Indian army there was no way India could have won any such war. Without our support Indian army would have come inside the mouth of crocodiles.

Because of us, IA lost only 1300 lives in that war, while we lost many thousands. Only now, India knows the real minds of Bangladeshis that we are not here to accept an Indian hegemony. This is why India has been unsuccessful to convince BD to get broad transit through our land to its NE.

Indians of today brag about, but do not know, the reality of that war. It was our emotion-ridden LA fighters who became the cannon fodders while the Indian Army fought from behind pounding the positions of PA troops. Well, both were needed to win against a group of butchers unwelcome in our land.

 

[Md Akmal]

^^^

I am slightly confused as to how Bangladeshi's view the 1971 'betrayal'. So just to clear the air please advise if Bengali's think-

1. Pak Army raped, plundered and murdered innocent Bengali's and that Pakistan should apologize to Bengali's.

2. Pak Army was just bringing law and order to the wild Bengali's elemants and thus following orders. That it never raped any Bengali women [or if such acts took place they were consensual] Pak Army never murdered innocent civilians and in fact was fighting against criminal Bengali elemants working for India. If this is so then a apology is due to Pakistan from the Bengali's.

3. Following on from the above Indian Army rescued/saved and freed the Bengali's from Pak Army and helped to give birth to free Bangladesh. If this is so Bengali's need to say a big 'thank you' to India.

4. That the Indian Army was wrong in liberating Bengali's from Pakistan. Therefore India should apologize for having created Bangladesh. Members of mukti Bahini should be tried in courts for high treason.

Simple Yes or No would do thank you in advance.

@ Dear Atanz, to answer your above question is really very difficult and some times impossible.

@ It reminds me an old Indian song, " Kia sara dosh mere tha !!! kuch mere tha, kuch tumhara tha aur shahed ham dono ka tha ".

@ Remember one thing political crisis cannot be solved with "Yes or No" statement. You know as the version of present Indian and Bangladeshi media Bengalise used to hate the West Pakistanise specially Punjabise and the viz versa. But reality was different. I gave you one my practical examples of those days. In 1966, we used to stay at Rawalpindi. Every alternative years we used to come for vacation to East Pakistan via Lahore. On the way we used to do lot of shopping at Lahore with my father. Once in April 1966 I alone with my father went for shopping at Lahore. We bought lot of things from a shop as a gift for our relatives. After hurriedly shopping my father asked, "Kitna whowa bhai", the man replied, "Ap passand kijiye na bhai, kimat ka koi fikker mat kijiye ". My father thought that we were in a trap. He stopped marketing. Then the main shop owner came and gave a big "Salam" and said, "Kia whowa bhai, tusi Bangal ke rehney waley ho na jee? tusi lussi pioge yeh thanda ?". Miracally he took not a single penny from us and said " O badshao tusi ash koro jee, ashi Bangalio se paise nahi leyte ". "San paishat(65) ki jang me Bangalione Lahore ko bachaya tha Hindustanio se, ashi tumhara bhuhat shokar gojar hai ".

@ My dear friend Pakistan Army killed many many fellow Bengali army, Navy, and other para military forces while disarming them. While bringing "Law and Situation", they killed many innocent Bengalise even with barrage artillery fire. It is true that most of the Pakistani soldiers were illiterate and hardly had any idea about East Pakistani. They even could not pronounce " Identy Card". Most of them used to call "Tumhara danty card dekhao". However they were very loyel to their superior command.

@ In conclusion I will say, your politicians, your military command structure and other civil authorities completely failed to tackle the Eastern Crisis for which we are still suffering.

 

[kalu_miah]

I raised this issue one time before in a sticky thread about 1971. We need clear accounting of:

- how many non-combatant people were killed from which side, Bengali, Bihari/hindustani muslims, others
- how many combatants died from which side, Mukti Bahini, Rajakar militia (both Bengali and Bihari/Hindustani, others)
- we need names, dates, times and places of death
- and an accounting for rape and other atrocities with same data, name, date, time and place

It has been just over 40 years, there are still many eye witnesses, so it should not be very difficult job to do. Every family and individuals, combatants/civilians, all should have living surviving relatives or at least neighbors. Unless some political parties stand in the way, this should be a national priority for both Bangladesh and Pakistan, so history can be set straight and all the baseless rumors can be stopped about this. Hamudur Rahman report was done from Pakistan side, we need one that is much more comprehensive and headed by neutral foreign organization, so it is not tainted by bias from any participating side in the conflict.

Emotion has its uses, but for setting history straight, we need facts based on sufficient evidence.

I am sure both Indian and Pakistan army kept very accurate account of how many died from their team. What we need to do is do the same for others.

And to answer Atanz's question, no one knows the real story, the story we have now is filled with rumors and propaganda from all sides, so naturally people don't know what to feel and this situation is used by politicians in Bangladesh to fill in the blanks and sway opinion one way or the other.

Also, if I may add, we need to go into Indian role in instigating Bengali nationalism in then East Pakistan using Awami League, from the moment of its spinning off from Muslim League as Awami Muslim League. But for that study we will need classified Indian Intelligence Bureau and RAW files. Some senior politicians already mentioned that Agartala conspiracy was no conspiracy, but it was a true Indian plan to break Pakistan. So this need to be looked at as well to get the complete picture.

Only when we know the real actors and masterminds with their motives from the beginning of the story, can we assign blame for events and resulting losses.

One more thing many people do not know is the role of North East states in this. ISI was active with insurgents there from 1950's, if I am not mistaken. If India could not break Pakistan, there was a good chance that North East states would break off, so 1971 in a way ensured the integrity of India and could have prevented the rebellion in North East states to spin out of control. I don't have enough information on this, but this factor need to be looked into as well.

 

[Md Akmal]

I raised this issue one time before in a sticky thread about 1971. We need clear accounting of:

- how many non-combatant people were killed from which side, Bengali, Bihari/hindustani muslims, others
- how many combatants died from which side, Mukti Bahini, Rajakar militia (both Bengali and Bihari/Hindustani, others)
- we need names, dates, times and places of death
- and an accounting or rape and other atrocities with same data, name, date, time and place.

@ So far I know, how many Army, Airforce, Navy, BDR, Ansars and other Para Military forces were killed by Pakistani army are well recorded. All their dependaries are getting all the allowances and other facilities of the Govt. How many govt civil employees were killed were also well recorded. Only thing how many civilians died no record is maintained. Rather govt does want not to record it. How ever, in the initial days little bit initiative was taken by Sk Mujib soon it was barried.


Later, sources in Bangladesh reported that the draft report showed an overall casualty figure of 56,743. When a copy of this draft report was shown to the Prime Minister,(Sk Mujib)

"He lost his temper and threw it on the floor, saying in angry voice 'I have declared three million dead, and your report could not come up with three score thousand! What report you have prepared? Keep your report to yourself. What I have said once, shall prevail."

 

[Roybot]

@ So far I know, how many Army, Airforce, Navy, BDR, Ansars and other Para Military forces were killed by Pakistani army are well recorded. All their dependaries are getting all the allowances and other facilities of the Govt. How many govt civil employees were killed were also well recorded. Only thing how many civilians died no record is maintained. Rather govt does want not to record it. How ever, in the initial days little bit initiative was taken by Sk Mujib soon it was barried.


Later, sources in Bangladesh reported that the draft report showed an overall casualty figure of 56,743. When a copy of this draft report was shown to the Prime Minister,(Sk Mujib)

"He lost his temper and threw it on the floor, saying in angry voice 'I have declared three million dead, and your report could not come up with three score thousand! What report you have prepared? Keep your report to yourself. What I have said once, shall prevail."

Some of these stories are so amusing.

Is there is a source for this story, or were you personally present there when Mujib threw the file?

 

[kalu_miah]

@ So far I know, how many Army, Airforce, Navy, BDR, Ansars and other Para Military forces were killed by Pakistani army are well recorded. All their dependaries are getting all the allowances and other facilities of the Govt. How many govt civil employees were killed were also well recorded. Only thing how many civilians died no record is maintained. Rather govt does want not to record it. How ever, in the initial days little bit initiative was taken by Sk Mujib soon it was barried.


Later, sources in Bangladesh reported that the draft report showed an overall casualty figure of 56,743. When a copy of this draft report was shown to the Prime Minister,(Sk Mujib)

"He lost his temper and threw it on the floor, saying in angry voice 'I have declared three million dead, and your report could not come up with three score thousand! What report you have prepared? Keep your report to yourself. What I have said once, shall prevail."

Interesting info, thanks for sharing. Hamudur Rahman report made a claim that the total casualty was around 26,000, so there is great disparity, so I think it warrants a new, fresh, foreign funded and headed investigation and report, with supporting evidence and witness account from all sides.

 

[Md Akmal]

Some of these stories are so amusing.

Is there is a source for this story, or were you personally present there when Mujib threw the file?

@ Your question reminds me your favorate song, " Hamko hami se choralo, dilpe kahi vi bethalo ".
Now try to look into ____



7. The Statesman, Calcutta, 11 January, 1972.


4.1. The MCA’s Report:
The MCAs whom Mujib personally assigned to the task of finding the casualty figures of their respective districts apparently went ahead with their task. With the help of their local district, subdivision, thana, and union Awami League party and governmental machineries, the MCAs concerned begun collating the ground level known casualty figures.

As has already been mentioned, for the district of Noakhali, one of the worst war affected districts of Bangladesh, Abdul Muhaimin could gather together a total of less than seven and. a half thousand reported losses of life. These included Razakars who fought to save Pakistan and were mercilessly killed by the armed Mukti Bahinis mainly after the surrender of the Pakistan Army on 16 December 1971. Even taking Noakhali as a representative of all the other 19 districts of Bangladesh, some of which hardly saw any action, the overall loss of life could not have been computed beyond one hundred and twenty-five thousand. [1]

Apparently, Abdul Muhaimin was not alone in coming up with such an unexpectedly disappointing casualty figure. A few others also came up with such unwelcome truths about the loss of life, property and honour. It has been said that once the MCAs concerned started reporting their preliminary findings to Mujib, the Bangladesh Prime Minister lost his trust in the ability of his Constituent Assembly colleagues to provide him with the expected ‘proof of Pakistan Army's genocide’. Being disappointed at their inefficiency, he then formed the 12-member strong Inquiry Committee under Abdur Rahim. [2]

4.2. The Inquiry Committee Report:
The Inquiry Committee seemed to have also failed Mujib in giving him the kind of truth he was after. The Government of Bangladesh never said a word about officially receiving the report, which was, as per as the original Gazette notification, due on or before 30 April 1972 or what happened to the Inquiry Committee's work.

On 6 June 1972, William Drummond reported:


"Since the third week of March, when the Inspector General's office in the Bangladesh Home Ministry began its field investigations, there have been about 2,000 complaints from citizens about deaths at the hands of the Pakistan Army have been received." [3]

Later, sources in Bangladesh reported that the draft report showed an overall casualty figure of 56,743. When a copy of this draft report was shown to the Prime Minister,

"he lost his temper and threw it on the floor, saying in angry voice 'I have declared three million dead, and your report could not come up with three score thousand! What report you have prepared? Keep your report to yourself. What I have said once, shall prevail." [4]

 

[kalu_miah]

@ Your question reminds me your favarate song, " Hamko hami se choralo, dilpe kahi vi bethalo ".
Now try to look into ____
7. The Statesman, Calcutta, 11 January, 1972.


4.1. The MCA’s Report:
The MCAs whom Mujib personally assigned to the task of finding the casualty figures of their respective districts apparently went ahead with their task. With the help of their local district, subdivision, thana, and union Awami League party and governmental machineries, the MCAs concerned begun collating the ground level known casualty figures.

As has already been mentioned, for the district of Noakhali, one of the worst war affected districts of Bangladesh, Abdul Muhaimin could gather together a total of less than seven and. a half thousand reported losses of life. These included Razakars who fought to save Pakistan and were mercilessly killed by the armed Mukti Bahinis mainly after the surrender of the Pakistan Army on 16 December 1971. Even taking Noakhali as a representative of all the other 19 districts of Bangladesh, some of which hardly saw any action, the overall loss of life could not have been computed beyond one hundred and twenty-five thousand. [1]

Apparently, Abdul Muhaimin was not alone in coming up with such an unexpectedly disappointing casualty figure. A few others also came up with such unwelcome truths about the loss of life, property and honour. It has been said that once the MCAs concerned started reporting their preliminary findings to Mujib, the Bangladesh Prime Minister lost his trust in the ability of his Constituent Assembly colleagues to provide him with the expected ‘proof of Pakistan Army's genocide’. Being disappointed at their inefficiency, he then formed the 12-member strong Inquiry Committee under Abdur Rahim. [2]

4.2. The Inquiry Committee Report:
The Inquiry Committee seemed to have also failed Mujib in giving him the kind of truth he was after. The Government of Bangladesh never said a word about officially receiving the report, which was, as per as the original Gazette notification, due on or before 30 April 1972 or what happened to the Inquiry Committee's work.

On 6 June 1972, William Drummond reported:


"Since the third week of March, when the Inspector General's office in the Bangladesh Home Ministry began its field investigations, there have been about 2,000 complaints from citizens about deaths at the hands of the Pakistan Army have been received." [3]

Later, sources in Bangladesh reported that the draft report showed an overall casualty figure of 56,743. When a copy of this draft report was shown to the Prime Minister,

"he lost his temper and threw it on the floor, saying in angry voice 'I have declared three million dead, and your report could not come up with three score thousand! What report you have prepared? Keep your report to yourself. What I have said once, shall prevail." [4]

Please provide any internet link or the name of book or newspaper (including date issue etc.) for William Drummond report.

 

[Luffy 500]

Interesting info, thanks for sharing. Hamudur Rahman report made a claim that the total casualty was around 26,000, so there is great disparity, so I think it warrants a new, fresh, foreign funded and headed investigation and report, with supporting evidence and witness account from all sides.

Thanks to BAL's extremism & politics this may not ever be known. Even BNP or their ally JI will ever run a census fearing propaganda and backlash by these awami indian dalals. But truth always
prevails and falsehood and propaganda perishes in front of truth. I am sure some future gen will
dig out the truth and set history straight in its correct path.

 

[indian_jigar]

History is written by the historians, but the history of bangladesh liberation war was written by the AL and Indian joint propaganda machines in order to bring world sympathy towards the Bangalis of east Pakistan. I am in favour of an independent bangladesh, so I would agree to the liberation war. But, I am aghast with the still ensuing propaganda of an unproved number of killings, which is an impossible figure considering the time span of the war.

In Vietnam, there were about 1+ million killings during its 30 yr. old liberation war against France and then USA. The difference is Vietnamese have all the names of victims whereas we do not have. When a new skeleton is found with the sign of a bullet wound he is added it to the list along with his name. Similar things should have been done in Bangladesh.

But, the callous AL people would not allow such things. AL has hijacked the history of killings in order to keep on fueling an absurd figure to win popularity when that AL itself is responsible for the killings because they were unprepared to save the lives. There is still time that the govt releases the documents it has prepared by order of Sk. Mujib.

India never said anything. You can call it Awami League propaganda if you choose not to believe it, but dragging India in it is unnecessary.