Liberation War martyrs would exceed 30 lac: Mamun

[kalu_miah]

Post independence all of NE was Assam. The other states were formed later. I thought you knew everything about NE

No I did not notice that, interesting point, but it was not just Assam, in 1971 there was also Monipur, Nagaland and Tripura. The other states were formed later:

Northeast India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
During the entire British colonial period in India, North East India was ruled as a part of Bengal Province. The state of Assam came into existence in 1874.[6] After the Indian Independence from British Rule in 1947, the Northeastern region of British India consisted of Assam and the princely states of Manipur and Tripura. Subsequently, Nagaland in 1963, Meghalaya in 1972, Arunachal Pradesh in 1975 and Mizoram in 1987 were formed out of Assam.[7] Manipur and Tripura remained as Union Territories of India between 1956 until 1972 when they attained fully-fledged statehood. Sikkim was integrated as the eighth North Eastern Council state in 2002.[8]
The city of Shillong acted as the capital of the Assam province created during the British Rule. It remained as the capital of undivided Assam until formation of the state of Meghalaya in 1972.[9] The capital of Assam was then shifted to Dispur, a part of Guwahati, and Shillong became the capital of Meghalaya.

 

[jaunty]

No I did not notice that, interesting point, but it was not just Assam, in 1971 there was also Monipur, Nagaland and Tripura. The other states were formed later:

I know that, when I said post independence I meant post 1947.

 

[kalu_miah]

I know that, when I said post independence I meant post 1947.

Even in 1947, post independence there were 3 states, Assam and princely states of Manipur and Tripura, according to the wiki article. Anyway, thanks for pointing this out.

 

[TopCat]

RAW was formed in 1968 from Intelligence Bureau, so RAW obviously did not have a role 1949-1968, but Intelligence Bureau as its predecessor could have. And when RAW came into being under Indira in 1968, I think East Pakistan was one of its major theater of activity.

Please show some sources where it says Mujib's Bengali nationalism included Assam or any other states in North East India. Are you also saying that Mujib thought that West Bengal would join East Pakistan under Bengali nationalism or just Assam? You do realize that Assam means automatically India looses connection with all other states in North East India. So in effect you are saying that Mujib was a lucky chap, as he was thinking that he could use India to get independence and also get Assam and the other North East states as gift from India.

And from what I have seen about these North East states, each have their own culture and all of them do not like Bengali's, including Ahoms and Assamese, who have their own distinct culture. What they wanted always is independence but never to join with East Bengal.

As far as I remember, ISI was involved with North East states insurgency, not Mujib or Awami League.

Well, there were few threads which you probably missed as you joined PDF recently where we discussed pre partition and post partition history.

Just give you few hints.

1) Muslim League and Congress elitist political parties in the early 20th century which never represented the peasantry society of erstwhile Bengal. Muslim League was the party of Nawabs and Congress was the party of Jamindar.

2) Fazlul Haque brought the politics within the reach of peasant class through Krishak Proja party.

3) Communist parties / Left leaning parties also worked along.

4) Fazlul haque did not have mass support from Hindu community which he deserved most.

5) In the Bengal Assembly Fazlul Haque secured more seat than Muslim Leaque.

6) Congress secured maximum seat but did not have enough to form government.

7) Fazlul Haque seeked help from Congress instead of Muslim League to form the government.

8) Congress declined, seeing him as Muslim.

9) Muslim League capitalized the situation and extended support to Fazlul Haque who formed the government.

10) Later as the all India Muslim League got the momentum, Fazlul Haque joined Muslim League.

11) Fazlul Haque supported Lahore proposal with a precondition that Bengal will never be divided. Pakistan or No Pakistan.

12) After the Fazlul Haque Sohrawardy took the charge of Muslim League of Bengal and became the Chief Minister.

13) Sohrawardy had the same view of Fazlul Haque of not dividing Bengal.

14) After the riots of Calcutta, it became obvious that Bengal will get divided.

15) Sohrawardy and Sarat Bose of Congress made the last minute effort to keep Bengal United tried for a United Secular Bengal.

16) Jinnah supported the move.

17) Bengal Muslim League (Hawkish faction) of Nazimuddin vehemently opposed the idea of Secular Independent Bengal.

18) Non Bengali Hindus from Calcutta opposed the same move.

19) Neheru opposed it.

20) At the end it seemed that, too many non Bengalis were involved in securing the future of Bengal.

21) Bengal got divided.

22) Tripura wanted to join East Pakistan after partition.

23) Nazimuddin did not want any more Hindu majority territory in Pakistan fearing to loosen the grip of Hawkish Muslims (Non Bengali).

24) Nazimuddin was more worried about Kashmir than Tripura.

25) Sohrawardy declined to come to East Pakistan before all the repatriation of Muslim from Calcutta takes place.

26) Nazimuddin took this opportunity and kicked Sohrawardy out of National Assembly.

27) Sohrawardy resigned from Muslim League.

29) By 1948/1949, Awami Muslim League was formed by Bhasani.

30) Sohrawardy joined Awami Muslim League in 1950/1951.

31) Fazlul Haque also gone back to his Krishak Proja Party leaving Muslim League.

32) By 1954 it was clearly visible that there were two faction in East Pakistan, liberal secular faction and a hawkish muslim league faction

33) Jukto Front was formed and Muslim League was defeated by huge margin.


I hope you should understand the dynamics of East Pakistan politics by now. RAW was too small of a factor to move stall wart like Fazlul Haque or Sohrawardy.

 

[Md Akmal]

RAW had no role in formation of Awami League as there were no RAW in 1949. Bengali nationalism was a threat to Pakistan as well as for India. Sheikh Mujib played his card right using India and he was a lucky chap. Sheikh wanted a greater secular bengal including Assam but 1971 spoiled his dream.

@ I think this great iajdani and East Watch talks something which has no reality on ground.

@ Sk Mujib had a wider vision means greater Bengal but not Assam.

@ I remember in 1971 the students of Dacca University paraded the Dacca street with dammy rifle on 23 March 1971 wearing a "Nehru" cap. What does it indicates ? Does it has any meaning ?????

 

[TopCat]

@ I think this great iajdani and East Watch talks something which has no reality on ground.

@ Sk Mujib had a wider vision means greater Bengal but not Assam.

@ I remember in 1971 the students of Dacca University paraded the Dacca street with dammy rifle on 23 March 1971 wearing a "Nehru" cap. What does it indicates ? Does it has any meaning ?????

I don't write fiction as you do.

 

[Zabaniyah]

@ I think this great iajdani and East Watch talks something which has no reality on ground.

Look who's talking...

 

[Md Akmal]

Well, there were few threads which you probably missed as you joined PDF recently where we discussed pre partition and post partition history.

Just give you few hints.

1) Muslim League and Congress elitist political parties in the early 20th century which never represented the peasantry society of erstwhile Bengal. Muslim League was the party of Nawabs and Congress was the party of Jamindar.

2) Fazlul Haque brought the politics within the reach of peasant class through Krishak Proja party.

3) Communist parties / Left leaning parties also worked along.

4) Fazlul haque did not have mass support from Hindu community which he deserved most.

5) In the Bengal Assembly Fazlul Haque secured more seat than Muslim Leaque.

6) Congress secured maximum seat but did not have enough to form government.

7) Fazlul Haque seeked help from Congress instead of Muslim League to form the government.

8) Congress declined, seeing him as Muslim.

9) Muslim League capitalized the situation and extended support to Fazlul Haque who formed the government.

10) Later as the all India Muslim League got the momentum, Fazlul Haque joined Muslim League.

11) Fazlul Haque supported Lahore proposal with a precondition that Bengal will never be divided. Pakistan or No Pakistan.

12) After the Fazlul Haque Sohrawardy took the charge of Muslim League of Bengal and became the Chief Minister.

13) Sohrawardy had the same view of Fazlul Haque of not dividing Bengal.

14) After the riots of Calcutta, it became obvious that Bengal will get divided.

15) Sohrawardy and Sarat Bose of Congress made the last minute effort to keep Bengal United tried for a United Secular Bengal.

16) Jinnah supported the move.

17) Bengal Muslim League (Hawkish faction) of Nazimuddin vehemently opposed the idea of Secular Independent Bengal.

18) Non Bengali Hindus from Calcutta opposed the same move.

19) Neheru opposed it.

20) At the end it seemed that, too many non Bengalis were involved in securing the future of Bengal.

21) Bengal got divided.

22) Tripura wanted to join East Pakistan after partition.

23) Nazimuddin did not want any more Hindu majority territory in Pakistan fearing to loosen the grip of Hawkish Muslims (Non Bengali).

24) Nazimuddin was more worried about Kashmir than Tripura.

25) Sohrawardy declined to come to East Pakistan before all the repatriation of Muslim from Calcutta takes place.

26) Nazimuddin took this opportunity and kicked Sohrawardy out of National Assembly.

27) Sohrawardy resigned from Muslim League.

29) By 1948/1949, Awami Muslim League was formed by Bhasani.

30) Sohrawardy joined Awami Muslim League in 1950/1951.

31) Fazlul Haque also gone back to his Krishak Proja Party leaving Muslim League.

32) By 1954 it was clearly visible that there were two faction in East Pakistan, liberal secular faction and a hawkish muslim league faction

33) Jukto Front was formed and Muslim League was defeated by huge margin.


I hope you should understand the dynamics of East Pakistan politics by now. RAW was too small of a factor to move stall wart like Fazlul Haque or Sohrawardy.

@ Answer to question no. 5. A K Fuzlul Huq got majority seats only in 1937 general election from "Krishak Proja Party".

@ Answer to question no. 12. A K Fuzlul Huq remained Chief Minister till British India joined the Second World War with out consulting the elected Civil Govt of India. Congress at once resigned from Centre and Provincial Govt. Later Muslim Leaque also withdrew support from the Provincial Govt. Shera Bangla was also forced to resigned from Chief Minister as ML withdrew support from it. But soon he was picked up as War Cabinet Minister and he continued though out the war. After the War a general election was held in 1946 and this time ML got the majority and Sohrawardy became the Chief Minister. During the war time ML supported the British Govt and encouraged local muslims to joined the war. Side by side they organized the ML through out Bengal. On the other hand a great number of Congress supported the "Azad Hind Fouz".

@ Answer to question no.24. Who told you that Nazimuddin was more warried about Kashmir than Tripura. The fact was that The "Rani" of Tripura came to East Bengal to meet Jinnah for political dialogue in 1948. May be for the annexation of Tripura with East Bengal. Nazimuddin sent a telegram to Jinnah regarding this. But Jinnah was too busy for handling of Tribal people for the revolt at Kashmir. Jinnah thought that he could not handle in two fronts. Moreso, at that time Pakistan Defense Force was too weak to tackle these situation in East Bengal. At that time Pakistan even did not had a Brigade size strength in East Bengal (East Pakistan).

@ Answer to question no. 26. Nazimuddin did not kicked out Sohrawardy rather he got flying kick from the members of Bengal Legislative Assembly. On the eve of Independence, there was a parliamentary vote where Nazimuddin got around 143 votes and Sohrawardy got only 39 votes. So Nazimuddin became the future leader and Chief Minister of East Bengal (East Pakistan). Sohrawardy remained at Calcutta till the death of Jinnah in 1948.

@ Answer to question no. 29. Awami Leaque was not formed by Bashani rather it was formed by Sohrawardy at Karachi in 1949. Bashani was the President of Eastern Wing.

@ Answer to question no. 29. "Sohrawardy joined Awami Muslim League in 1950/1951." Bulshit !!! Bad memory.

iajdani sorry for the correction !!

 

[TopCat]

@ Answer to question no. 5. A K Fuzlul Huq got majority seats only in 1937 general election from "Krishak Proja Party".

@ Answer to question no. 12. A K Fuzlul Huq remained Chief Minister till British India joined the Second World War with out consulting the elected Civil Govt of India. Congress at once resigned from Centre and Provincial Govt. Later Muslim Leaque also withdrew support from the Provincial Govt. Shera Bangla was also forced to resigned from Chief Minister as ML withdrew support from it. But soon he was picked up as War Cabinet Minister and he continued though out the war. After the War a general election was held in 1946 and this time ML got the majority and Sohrawardy became the Chief Minister. During the war time ML supported the British Govt and encouraged local muslims to joined the war. Side by side they organized the ML through out Bengal. On the other hand a great number of Congress supported the "Azad Hind Fouz".

@ Answer to question no.24. Who told you that Nazimuddin was more warried about Kashmir than Tripura. The fact was that The "Rani" of Tripura came to East Bengal to meet Jinnah for political dialogue in 1948. May be for the annexation of Tripura with East Bengal. Nazimuddin sent a telegram to Jinnah regarding this. But Jinnah was too busy for handling of Tribal people for the revolt at Kashmir. Jinnah thought that he could not handle in two fronts. Moreso, at that time Pakistan Defense Force was too weak to tackle these situation in East Bengal. At that time Pakistan even did not had a Brigade size strength.

@ Answer to question no. 26. Nazimuddin did not kicked out Sohrawardy rather he got flying kick from the members of Bengal Legislative Assembly. On the eve of Independence, there was a parliamentary vote where Nazimuddin got around 143 votes and Sohrawardy got only 39 votes. So Nazimuddin became the future leader and Chief Minister of East Bengal (East Pakistan). Sohrawardy remained at Calcutta till the death of Jinnah in 1948.

@ Answer to question no. 29. Awami Leaque was not formed by Bashani rather it was formed by Sohrawardy at Karachi in 1949. Bashani was the President of Eastern Wing.

@ Answer to question no. 29. "Sohrawardy joined Awami Muslim League in 1950/1951." Bulshit !!! Bad memory.

iajdani sorry for the correction !!

It was not a question which requires answer. I did not add tit bit of every details but the objective was to show that Liberal Secular faction was always stronger in Bengal long before Mujib came to picture. I don't see its necessary to correct your answer either as that will not change the objectivity of my earlier response.

 

[LaBong]

7) Fazlul Haque seeked help from Congress instead of Muslim League to form the government.

8) Congress declined, seeing him as Muslim.

It was not because Fazlul Haq was Muslim but Congress was puffed up beyond measure and thought they could go alone.

Also Haq won the election by promising land reform which did not go well with landlord lobby of Congress.

The Congress had secured absolute majority in the assembly polls in all provinces barring Sindh, Punjab, Bengal, and the North-West Frontier Province. The party’s top leaders decided the Congress would enter office in a province, only if it had an absolute majority in the assembly. An exception was made for the NWFP, where the Congress formed the government with the help of a Hindu Mahasabha legislator.

Except this, rest of your points seem to be correct.

 

[TopCat]

It was not because Fazlul Haq was Muslim but Congress was puffed up beyond measure and thought they could go alone.

Also Haq won the election by promising land reform which did not go well with landlord lobby of Congress.

The Congress had secured absolute majority in the assembly polls in all provinces barring Sindh, Punjab, Bengal, and the North-West Frontier Province. The party’s top leaders decided the Congress would enter office in a province, only if it had an absolute majority in the assembly. An exception was made for the NWFP, where the Congress formed the government with the help of a Hindu Mahasabha legislator.

Except this, rest of your points seem to be correct.

Well, its debatable why Congress did not support Haq.

But, to many historian it was the blunder which ultimately resulted the break up of India.

 

[Md Akmal]

OK, Akmal Bhai, I will definitely try to read all these books. If Mujib didn't know what was going on within his own party, who were Indian agents and who were not, then what can I say, he was not fit to run a political party. If Mujib agreed to Bhutto's proposal and some Indian agents within Awami League leadership did not want to accept like Tajuddin, all he had to do is get them arrested and put them in jail on charges of treason. But he could not do that, because he was afraid that they would divulge his secret dealings, I am guessing. If he was not himself involved with India, it would have been easy for him to detect who was involved with India and hand them over to police or Military intelligence. My guess is that he was involved all along, but tried to keep plausible deniability by using those 4 "khalifa's" to liaison with India. Essentially Mujib thought that he could use India and RAW to win election and to create disturbance to achieve his goal of autonomy from West Pakistan, just a guess, but he was playing a dangerous game. He has actually compromised the security of then Pakistan already, much before March 1971, in my opinion, by working with India in secret, through those 4 "khalifa's", and the ring leader was probably Tajuddin.

Lets work together and see if we can uncover the secrets. May be we can pitch in and bribe some RAW peons and get hold of their old classified files from those periods. I think it is absolutely vital to find out and inform the entire story to Bangladeshi public with full colorful details.

@ There were two groups working within AL in the mid 60's. One group was Dacca-Delhi-Washinton led by Kh Mushtaque and another group Dacca-Delhi-Moscow led by Tazuddin. The four Khulifas were pro-Indian and pro-USSR.

@ Once 1965 War was going on, Munaum khan at once called for a all party meeting. Mujib secretly advised Governor of East Pakistan to revolt and declare independence.

 

[integra]

 

[Zabaniyah]

^Hey, where can I get one of those?

 

[integra]

^Hey, where can I get one of those?

Here you go

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Check out the LOR one.