Lets Take on LCA

[Neo]

Scientists in housing scam

ANIL LULLA

Bangalore, April 2: After doctors were caught cheating at an examination, scientists working on the prestigious light combat aircraft — Tejas — programme face allegations of perpetrating a housing scam on colleagues.

Nine Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) employees, including six scientists involved in Tejas, have been served non-bailable arrest warrants by a court. All nine are absconding and Bangalore police have been told by the ADA that they are on leave.

The chargesheet alleges that the group of nine and three real estate developers had collected Rs 3.3 crore from ADA employees promising them sites in 1999-2000. But with land value rising phenomenally, the board members of the housing society and the developers colluded and tried to sell the sites at a higher price to outsiders. The scam came to light after newspaper advertisements offered the same sites for Rs 690 a sq ft while the ADA employees had already paid Rs 150 a sq ft.

Based on a complaint by an employee, George Verghese, the police registered cases under sections 409 (forgery by a government employee), 420 (cheating), 465, 468, 471 (using forged documents as genuine) and 120B (criminal conspiracy) of the IPC.

The accused are Mukund Rao, the ADA administrative manager who is president of the Shree Venkateshwara House Building Cooperative Society, scientists V. Krishna Prasad, T. Chockalingam, H. Narasimha Murthy, J.V. Kamesh, P. Santhosham and P. Bhanumathi and two officers, C.V. Surendra and H.N. Prabhakara.

As the Karnataka government had banned housing societies from 1985, the group took over the defunct Shree Venkateshwara House Building Cooperative Society and operated using its name from the ADA office.

Investigation revealed that the society’s board persuaded the Bangalore Development Authority to approve the project as all its 160 members were employees of the defence ministry.

The probe also found that the society was run without the knowledge of the registrar of Karnataka Cooperative Societies. The police allege that the society members authorised the developers to make the plan for the housing project. Both sides operated multiple bank accounts, which enabled them to offer and sell the same sites at a much higher price to outsiders four years later.

It has now come to light that the office-bearers of the society and the developers had also diverted the society’s funds.

Senior ADA officials did not want to go on record and sought to distance themselves from the scam. “It is a personal matter between employees. It has nothing to do with the ADA,” they said.

They did not have an answer when asked why the nine employees were not suspended according to the rules.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060403/asp/...ory_6049812.asp

 

[melb4aust]

What was that all about. Another scam, this is unbeleavable and time with TEJAS.

I dont know what they are upto, they are spending alot of money on that project, which is going no where, they should stop it! Whats a point of wasting all that money and time, they can serve all that on some thing else, perhaps start a new project, why try some thing which you cant do. Think about that......

 

[Bull]

"The meeting, chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan singh and attended by Home Minister Shivraj Patil, Finance Minister P Chidambaram besides Mukherjee, also gave sanction to full scale development of 20 Tejas Light Combat Aircraft at the HAL at a cost of Rs 2,439 crores."

Did u read this..http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=5823

 

[Bull]

 

[RAPTOR]

In March the "Tejas" completed its 500th flight test. Flying at Mach 1.4 and capable of carrying weapons on seven hard points, the Tejas is the flagship in India's long struggle to develop an indigenous light fighter aircraft. But while the technology represents a major achievement for India's aviation industry,

questions remain whether the effort is worth the money that is being poured into it.

It is by no means certain that even the Indian Air Force, which needs to replace its aging fleet of Russian-made MiG-21s, will buy the plane over the several other light fighters it could obtain from abroad. Nor are export prospects certain given the glut of superior US, French, Swedish and other light fighter aircraft now on the world's armaments market.

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program began in 1983 out of the rising need to replace the MiG-21s, which even then were becoming obsolete but still constituted the most numerous type of aircraft in the Indian Air Force's inventory. By 1990, the design for a new plane was finalized, with the aircraft adopting a cranked delta wing and tailless configuration powered by a single turbofan engine.

Five years later the designated manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautical (HAL), unveiled two prototypes. However, because of difficulties with its flight-control system, the aircraft's first test flight was delayed another five years, until January 2001. Since then, two more prototypes have been produced, with a naval variant currently undergoing development.

Yet more than two decades since its conception, the Tejas has yet to reach production status. Instead, it continues to perform endless flight tests. Difficulties with flight controls were eventually resolved, but its power plant, the indigenous Kaveri engine, continues to be plagued with technical difficulties, the worst of which was the collapse of the engine during high-altitude tests performed at a Russian base in 2004.

The Tejas demonstrators and prototypes continue to be powered by a General Electric F404 engine, similar to the one used in the US F/A-18 and the Swedish Gripen. As a result of numerous setbacks with the Kaveri engine, India has began seeking assistance from foreign engine manufacturers, including General Electric, Pratt & Whitney and the French company Snecma.

While difficulties with its power plant could be easily resolved simply by abandoning the local engine and settling on a foreign onet, the Tejas continues to suffer from one key drawback that HAL is unlikely to overcome - its extremely limited airframe. At just 5,500 kilograms and 13 meters long, the Tejas is smaller and lighter than other lightweight aircraft such as the Gripen and the United States' F-16.

Its small size gives the aircraft a smaller radar cross-section, but at the same time limits the amount of fuel (and thus range) and room for additional avionics.

When completed, the Tejas will be comparable to the Gripen in its capabilities. But the Gripen has been operating in Swedish squadrons for nearly a decade and has already seen a new upgraded variant, the Gripen-C, being produced. Similarly, another light combat aircraft, the F-16, has been in service for nearly three decades while offering similar capabilities and numerous upgraded variants.

The capabilities the Tejas offers do not provide anything new or significant over existing light fighters that have already been flying in foreign air forces for years. In short, it is already obsolete.

Rising development costs due to continuing deficiencies in the program will ultimately produce an expensive aircraft that may only be built in limited numbers. India says it intends to export the Tejas, which would offset some of the development costs and lower overall unit costs. However, any exports would have to come after the Indian Air Force has received enough aircraft to replace the aging MiG-21 fleet and would also depend on when the Tejas could actually be produced in large numbers.

Priority in replacing the MiG-21s is high because both Mikoyan-Gurevich and HAL ceased producing new models decades ago. In the export arena, the Tejas will have to compete with established rivals such as the Gripen and both new and used F-16s, which exist in the thousands and will continue be available for export when the F-35 begins replacing them in the US and Europe.

Elsewhere, nations unable to acquire the Swedish or US aircraft because of export restrictions could easily buy the Russian MiG-29 or the larger Su-30, both of which are sold at prices well below their Western counterparts'. Most air forces using the MiG-21 have already begun replacing their fleets with the aforementioned aircraft. There is very little incentive for customers to acquire the Tejas, as better options exist.

While the potential for exports may seem dim for the Tejas, so do the prospects of placing it in service of the Indian Air Force. There is no doubt that the Tejas is superior to the aircraft it is intended to replace; however, the air force generals are not just waiting around until the Tejas comes into full production.

India has already acquired MiG-29s and Sukhoi Su-30MKIs from Russia and Mirage-2000s from France. The MiG-29 and Mirage 2000 are considered lightweight combat aircraft, and the former is renowned for its agility. It performed exceptionally well during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan over Kashmir. The larger and more sophisticated Su-30MKI employs top-of-the-line French, Israeli and Russian avionics.

With the exception of the US F-22, the Su-30MKI is perhaps the world's most capable fighter aircraft currently flying. To make matters worse for the LCA program, the Indian Air Force is seeking to acquire as many as 126 additional new aircraft from foreign manufacturers to replace the MiG-21. They include upgraded versions of the Mirage2000 and MiG-29, and other aircraft such as the French Rafale and the Gripen.

US companies have also presented their bids, which include the F-16 and F/A-18E that features advanced ActiveElectronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars. As India continues to ponder the bids, and as the air force continues to acquire second-hand Mirage 2000s from France and Qatar, there is increasingly less incentive for India to continue the Tejas program.

New Delhi should swallow its pride and cancel the program before any more money is wasted. Cancellation should have minimal impact on the air force, as the number of aircraft that will be acquired from the recent bids should be more than enough for MiG-21 replacement. The funding and experience can be applied to India's other ambitious program, the Medium Combat Aircraft. Ultimately, it is up to the government to cut its losses before the Tejas makes its 1,000th "test" flight.


http://http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HD05Df01.html

 

[Bull]

My post 35 was quoted as of 31 march 2006,so whats ur point in dugging out old news report.

 

[Bull]

. http://http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HD05Df01.html

Link isnt working

 

[RAPTOR]

Pity the poor indians, i just dont think the LCA is going to fly anytime soon with the IAF. They should just stick to their old Jaguars being churned out by HAL that even an indian pilot refuses to fly.
What a waste! just like the ArJUNK tank they attempted to build 20 years ago.

 

[EagleEyes]

SATAN,

First off all. Respect and stop mocking. Isn't better to see what is going on the other side of the fence than living in a fantacy world in which many PDF members are living in? You are calling Arjun tank a junk on what basis? Are you calling it junk because it is underpowered? Never made in to the production? Or is it just because it is an Indian tank?

Arjun tank was a technology demonstrator, there are dozens of technology demonstrator type of tanks and planes in the United States that were made, some made it to the production because they were effective. Some just never went in to the full production because the army and air force of the United States had variety of options that performed better. Same goes with the Arjun tank. It failed to meet the requirements of the Indian Army, and never made in to production, instead Indian Army ordered T-90 tanks from Russia which were way effective and are able to counter the threat of T-80UD and Al-Khalid tanks of ours.

Lets live in the reality can we?

Thanks.

 

[Kaiser]

SATAN,

First off all. Respect and stop mocking. Isn't better to see what is going on the other side of the fence than living in a fantacy world in which many PDF members are living in? You are calling Arjun tank a junk on what basis? Are you calling it junk because it is underpowered? Never made in to the production? Or is it just because it is an Indian tank?

Arjun tank was a technology demonstrator, there are dozens of technology demonstrator type of tanks and planes in the United States that were made, some made it to the production because they were effective. Some just never went in to the full production because the army and air force of the United States had variety of options that performed better. Same goes with the Arjun tank. It failed to meet the requirements of the Indian Army, and never made in to production, instead Indian Army ordered T-90 tanks from Russia which were way effective and are able to counter the threat of T-80UD and Al-Khalid tanks of ours.

Lets live in the reality can we?

Thanks.

No!
The arjun tank is a failiure on every basis.
And arjun is not a technology demenstrator it was meant to be fully inducted into the Indian army by 1989 and at its time would have been "on paper" in the league of the latest western tanks.DRDO so far only contributed to the deisgn of the arjun which lacked crew protect and even tank protection (by western standards).Most of the arjun parts are fully imported and bairly any are made in India accept the armor which is pretty advanced on paper (what kind of technology demenstrator has all of its tech imported?).The T-90's were aquired to counter the purshase of the t-80UD tanks and not the al-khalid which India still hase no counter against and would still face harder opposition in the future when the al-khalid 2 is inducted.Even the t-80UD has been updated to the t-84 standard which make it better than t-90.

If you dont agree with any of my points of the arjun above then here's a link http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Arjun.html

 

[Samudra]

Pity the poor indians, i just dont think the LCA is going to fly anytime soon with the IAF. They should just stick to their old Jaguars being churned out by HAL that even an indian pilot refuses to fly.

Satan,
Please back up your claim about Indian pilots refusing to fly Jaguars.

Thanks in advance.

 

[RAPTOR]

No!
The arjun tank is a failiure on every basis.
And arjun is not a technology demenstrator it was meant to be fully inducted into the Indian army by 1989 and at its time would have been "on paper" in the league of the latest western tanks.DRDO so far only contributed to the deisgn of the arjun which lacked crew protect and even tank protection (by western standards).Most of the arjun parts are fully imported and bairly any are made in India accept the armor which is pretty advanced on paper (what kind of technology demenstrator has all of its tech imported?).The T-90's were aquired to counter the purshase of the t-80UD tanks and not the al-khalid which India still hase no counter against and would still face harder opposition in the future when the al-khalid 2 is inducted.Even the t-80UD has been updated to the t-84 standard which make it better than t-90.

If you dont agree with any of my points of the arjun above then here's a link http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Arjun.html

I think webby was telling me to be more sensitive towards india. But..its kinda hard to say it in a nicer way. Even the indians are fed up with the failed Arjun program. There have been numerous articles and reports in indian news papers saying the same thing. Yea....it took 20 years and millions of dollars to produce a tank that fails on every requirement that the indian army has and has been a total waste of resources .DRDO is now working with Israel to improve on the arjun and build Arjun ll.

India is goin to build around 1000 T-90 tanks at its Avadi factory. It has also bought a large number of Polish T-72 tanks recently. But as is the case with the Agni, the ATV, LCA,Arjun which claim to be 100% indigenious ....the truth is that 80% of components are imported.....!

 

[RAPTOR]

Satan,
Please back up your claim about Indian pilots refusing to fly Jaguars.

Thanks in advance.

I thought you'd never ask .
Welcome in advance samundra!

 

[RAPTOR]

​

Indian pilots refuse to fly new Jaguars
New Delhi—After recent grounding of ‘Dhruv’, the advanced light helicopters, it is the turn of Jaguar deep penetration strike fighters to come under a cloud.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has refused to fly Jaguars recently delivered by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). IAF has expressed concern over some problems in the basic manufacture of the airframes of the two twin-seater handed over to IAF Station, Ambala.
IAF has blamed HAL for using non-standard hydraulic and fuel pipelines, which are different from the ones in the Jaguars being blown by IAF. This has caused operational and maintenance problems.
IAF had inducted 40 Jaguars from United Kingdom in early 1980s. It was followed by indigenous manufacture of another 108 Jaguar fighters by HAL under license from British Aerospace.
Just like the MiGs, the Jaguars have encountered a large number of accidents. For this reason, the youngsters who were scared of flying MiGs commonly known as “flying coffins,” are now reluctant to fly new Jaguars. Over 40 Jaguars have been “destroyed” in accidents, killing 15 pilots, since they were first inducted. For over a decade, the Indian Air Force has been loosing an average of nearly two aircraft every month. Since 37 years, Russian MiG fighters have crashed in large numbers causing widespread unrest in the IAF.
MiG 21, 23 and 27’s assembled or manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) divisions at Nasik, Sonabeda and elsewhere have crashed at the rate of 25 to 30 aircraft per year - This means loss of 500 MiG fighters and death of equal number of fighter pilots during the last two decades.
Between January 1993 and July 2003, the IAF lost more than 208 aircraft. According to a statistical analysis, 136 aircraft were lost between January 1998 to July 2003 as against 80 lost between 1993-97.
MiG-21s accounted for 61 out of 136 accidents, MiG-23s for 10, MiG-27s for 13 and MiG-29s for 3. Besides the loss of inventory upwards of Rs. 1,200 crores, the accidents claimed the lives of 67 pilots and other aircrew.
In addition, eight deep strike Jaguars, 10 Cheetah helicopters and 7 Kiran trainers crashed during the past few years. According to defence analysts, the future of IAF seems to be dismal. Due to denied promotions, abysmal flight safety record, inefficiency and sub-standard manufacture of HAL, indiscipline and other reasons, it seems unlikely that the Indian youth would prefer to choose the IAF as a career any longer.—APP


http://pakobserver.net/200603/15/news/world03.asp?txt=Indian%20pilots%20refuse%20to%20fly%20new%20Jaguars

 

[Samudra]

I'm not impressed.
Dhruvs are back in action FYI.Some 37 new Jaguar airframes were built.IIRC the orders for those machines were placed around 2001(read a Aero India report by MSDW) and I'm inclined to believe that a majority of them have been inducted.

This report is a work of fiction just like the Russian weapons supply report.Nobody except some Pakistani news establishment publish such stuff.

Welcome in advance samundra!

Look, my name is Samudra.