Lessons and observations for pakistani nation

[Meengla]

Yes, I never thought of this untill My father bought it up.
He told me that Pakistan was standing because of British and indians dispora and those were the most ethical people he saw during his Early education in 1950s..afterwards it was all trash

Have you not noticed the level of Paindo-ism around Musharraf's death comments on this forum?? Some even hated him for 'Enlightened Moderation'!! WTF?? Did he have Mujras and NIghtclubs in Pakistan? Were there nude beaches in Karachi? Were there 'Adult' movies in Pakistani theaters? Was alcohol legalized in Pakistan. All the guy tried to do was to give some breathing room to the youngens after the long suffocation under Zia!!
A lot of these expat Pakistanis may have made it to Norway or Findland or America or the UK but their Paindo-ism never left them and it shows!!

 

[ziaulislam]

How

Political stability!!!
Corruption/Nepotism is endemic in 3rd world countries. Once I saw up to 1/3rd of India's parliamentarians were involved in corruption or other legal issues. But they have the political stability and continuity of policies after the turmoil of late 1980s in their political environment. And as of late, Mr. Modi is a true gift to India!!!

However even in endemic corruption laws was always intact..you would never see someone walk free despite having mountains of evidence in front of them..sure 99% it won't make it Court

Problem if u bring evidence and then throw the case it shocks the system...

E.g roa Anwar should have been set free and never trialed but u bring all that evidence and then you free him it shocks the system.

We should have never investigated maryum Nawaz but u bring all the evidence and then set her free it destroys the system.

It doesn't matter how corrupt the judiciary is but at least it should seems to be Fair

Isn't there still a huge Muhajir population and similar progressive ideology pocket in Karachi?

These people we still have and they can be useful, but it comes back to nepotism, can they fairly and legitetimately reach governance positions?

General public is still not sold on idea of merit.

Hence the only way forward is if someone imposes these things i.e a mushi style dictatorship

 

[Erieye]

General public is still not sold on idea of merit.

Hence the only way forward is if someone imposes these things i.e a mushi style dictatorship

If i'm being honest on you I really want this

I just want someone to force meritocracy on these people, and enforce punishment against corruption/nepotism.

We need people in Pakistan to let go of their backwards mentality and think pragmatically if their actions are beneficial or destructive. Nepotism is destructive, it destroys institutions, same with lack of meritocracy.

This isn't even about "progressiveness" you are mentally backwards if you can't see the above

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

Personally, I think groups are doomed to the genetic traits that have been selected for, for generations.
I can almost guarantee that you put a sample Japanese population or Azhkenazi Jew population in any place on earth, they will create a functioning city.

Put some Pakistani's and Afghans in the same places, and it will be a hell hole.
Individuals can trenscend the group, but the collective will always gravitate towards the mean.
Over a long enough time fame like fricking 75 years, the equalbirum has long set in.
USSR collapsed, and it did not take the Russians long to reorganize and go back to being a major wold power.
Somehow we think after 75 long years things can magically improve lol.
Look at the chaotic traffic, the lines at ATM machines, the lack of respect for dead dogs killed by motorists, no one has the decency to remove them.

until this stuff changes, we aint going anywhere.

 

[ziaulislam]

Relig

If i'm being honest on you I really want this

I just want someone to force meritocracy on these people, and enforce punishment against corruption/nepotism.

We need people in Pakistan to let go of their backwards mentality and think pragmatically if their actions are beneficial or destructive. Nepotism is destructive, it destroys institutions, same with lack of meritocracy.

This isn't even about "progressiveness" you are mentally backwards if you can't see the above

Well Pakistani are not religious
They don't believe in God
They are surely believe in their culture which some people get confuse with religion

If they truly believed in religion you wouldn't be seeing the degree of racism, intolerance, killings and corruptions which are basic tenants of Islam

 

[Meengla]

Isn't there still a huge Muhajir population and similar progressive ideology pocket in Karachi?

These people we still have and they can be useful, but it comes back to nepotism, can they fairly and legitetimately reach governance positions?

There is the 'quota system' in Sindh which, perhaps was needed 50 years ago, has outlived its utility decades ago and is being used to deprive qualified urban people a chance to make a difference in Pakistan. When Musharraf gave resources to the Urdu Speakers, they delivered and their contribution to Pakistan was probably more than the what was given to them by Musharraf. That can still happen and I think Imran Khan was on right track there. Urdu Speakers and some urban areas of Punjab have the best potential to contribute to Pakistan's economy given a chance and resources.

Political stability and continuity are certainly very helpful but not the panacea. They worked for modi's india and hasina's BD but not for numerous african and middle eastern countries.

What? Most Middle Eastern and African countries where there is stability look better than Pakistan now! Like BD, they too are marching on past Pakistan. You know Ethiophia had famines and we all know about Rwanda. They are reviving despite all the bloodshed, famine because they have more stability than Pakistan; also, Pakistanis doubly cursed by the very dangerous geopolitical environment which those countries don't have.

 

[Erieye]

Personally, I think groups are doomed to the genetic traits that have been selected for, for generations.
I can almost guarantee that you put a sample Japanese population or Azhkenazi Jew population in any place on earth, they will create a functioning city.

Put some Pakistani's and Afghans in the same places, and it will be a hell hole.
Individuals can trenscend the group, but the collective will always gravitate towards the mean.
Over a long enough time fame like fricking 75 years, the equalbirum has long set in.
USSR collapsed, and it did not take the Russians long to reorganize and go back to being a major wold power.
Somehow we think after 75 long years things can magically improve lol.
Look at the chaotic traffic, the lines at ATM machines, the lack of respect for dead dogs killed by motorists, no one has the decency to remove them.

until this stuff changes, we aint going anywhere.

If we want to talk about genetics, then you can make an argument that some groups are inherently more gifted in terms of average IQ or physicality.

But the issue in Pakistan is more sociocultural - the IQ is not so low that it be failed this bad - it is cultural issue we are witnessing. Even considering the above - it does not explain why we don't have semi-functioning institutions that can do their job properly.

 

[Erieye]

There is the 'quota system' in Sindh which, perhaps was needed 50 years ago, has outlived its utility decades ago and is being used to deprive qualified urban people a chance to make a difference in Pakistan. When Musharraf gave resources to the Urdu Speakers, they delivered and their contribution to Pakistan was probably more than the what was given to them by Musharraf. That can still happen and I think Imran Khan was on right track there. Urdu Speakers and some urban areas of Punjab have the best potential to contribute to Pakistan's economy given a chance and resources.

We must accept that most of this country is uncivilised, it's culture doesn't match running a functioning nation state with functioning instituions with dedicated roles.

Any pragmatic thinker can realise how devasting nepotism or lack of meritocracy can be in government ministries/instituitions given how it detoriorates them, and these same ministries are supposed to handle things related to the entire country. Failed incompetent ministries/institutions will obviously translate to a failed country.

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

If we want to talk about genetics, then you can make an argument that some groups are inherently more gifted in terms of average IQ or physicality.

But the issue in Pakistan is more sociocultural - the IQ is not so low that it be failed this bad - it is cultural issue we are witnessing. Even considering the above - it does not explain why we don't have semi-functioning institutions that can do their job properly.

I was more talking about the capacity to cooperate in groups. The Jews being tight knit religious group facing hostility throughout their history, have been specifically selecting for this, this is why they dominate certain industries despite their small population. The selective pressure on this continent was just never there. It was easy for the British to bribe the mughal governers, but it was almost impossible to bribe the British.

 

[Erieye]

I was more talking about the capacity to cooperate in groups. The Jews being tight knit religious group facing hostility throughout their history, have been specifically selecting for this, this is why they dominate certain industries despite their small population. The selective pressure on this continent was just never there. It was easy for the British to bribe the mughal governers, but it was almost impossible to bribe the British.

This is sociocultural though, not genetic, though difficult it is possible to change this but would require probably a dictator to enforce it.

These things have been shaped by history and war, and environmental circumstances.

 

[TheSolution]

it may be a bit out of fashion these days but only redemption for Pakistani youth living in Pakistan is to start educating them about their shared ancestry with Indians and give them a ray of hope that they can also succeed just like their Indian cousins.

All this muslim ruled hindus nonsense has gone to the prior generation's (may be two or three) head and they have wasted their miserable lives trying to be accepted as arabs and macedonians and what not. result of that wastage is what you see now - a country in bankruptcy, with no repute or character, people hating their military, population hypothecated to the shylocks of shanghai.

if you still like or love your country and want to redeem Pakistan teach your kids truth about your mistakes that brought you here. 1947, 1971, Kargil, cpec, abbottabad, the coups,....accept these mistakes that derailed your nation from civilization.

teach your kids to accept or compartmentalize things like Kashmir to correct perpective. teach them the truth about the peace of your religion as well as the savagery in it - so that they can adopt the former and eschew the latter. show them there is no gain in being a barbarian.

stop selling clowning of wwf as mma. it is ridiculous how so many of you sound

Yet again another Pajeet here to ruin another thread with his trolling and skewed perception

@waz @LeGenD for how long do we have to tolerate ruining threads for Indian self-fellacio and insecurities?

 

[ziaulislam]

If we want to talk about genetics, then you can make an argument that some groups are inherently more gifted in terms of average IQ or physicality.

But the issue in Pakistan is more sociocultural - the IQ is not so low that it be failed this bad - it is cultural issue we are witnessing. Even considering the above - it does not explain why we don't have semi-functioning institutions that can do their job properly.

We don't have any IQ issues I don't what that guy is talking about

 

[Maula Jatt]

Personally, I think groups are doomed to the genetic traits that have been selected for, for generations.
I can almost guarantee that you put a sample Japanese population or Azhkenazi Jew population in any place on earth, they will create a functioning city.

Put some Pakistani's and Afghans in the same places, and it will be a hell hole.
Individuals can trenscend the group, but the collective will always gravitate towards the mean.
Over a long enough time fame like fricking 75 years, the equalbirum has long set in.
USSR collapsed, and it did not take the Russians long to reorganize and go back to being a major wold power.
Somehow we think after 75 long years things can magically improve lol.
Look at the chaotic traffic, the lines at ATM machines, the lack of respect for dead dogs killed by motorists, no one has the decency to remove them.

until this stuff changes, we aint going anywhere.

You're such an idiot dude
IQ ni**a we have the same average IQ levels as Iranians
Go 800,1000 years back this place was killing it in literature, science, medicine

You'd know it if you stopped sucking Babar's old Johnson

Talk about real stuff not what comes outta your behind

 

[Erieye]

We don't have any IQ issues I don't what that guy is talking about

We have average IQ globally if you compare with races, not low as African but not high as Chinese or white

IQ is roughly same as Iranians

Anyway the problem is sociocultural, inability to think pragmatically for what is beneficial to us, and allow those people to power.

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

This is sociocultural though, not genetic, though difficult it is possible to change this but would require probably a dictator to enforce it.

These things have been shaped by history and war, and environmental circumstances.

I dont think its anything but genetic. I mean people in Japan leave their doors unlocked, there are videos of people leaving their wallets, only to find them returned by a bypasser. A good indication of the potential of any nation is the capacity for obeying traffic rules/forming straight lines. Nothing about this is socio cultural. Obeying rules is something even ant colonies do.
Just my two cents.