Legend Indian Muslim artist doesnt trust India

[Spring Onion]

Vs


Dear HINDUISM expert Ms. Jana,

1. Nudism is not part Hinduism

2. How many modern artists painted Hindu deities naked?

This is the way to paint Saraswati..

by Ravi Varma (1848-1906)
.. not this!

3. If Hussain is a Legend Indian Muslim artist, he should be more careful when painting Gods of other religions, shouldn't he?

Indeed he should have taken care of that.

I am just posting something which is from a Hindu Indian writer not my opinion.



Indian women were topless before the British came


The attack on pub culture by Sri Rama Sene and consequent moral policing by the so-called protectors of women and Indian culture may get some rude shock if they went back to Indian history and read books on the various dynasties of ancient India and its culture. If they have not read, I would recommend they read it now to get their facts right.

All scriptures and sculptures from ancient India stand testimony to our liberal outlook on matters of sex, dancing and drinking. Women walked around the streets topless and men accepted it as the norm. There were no untoward incidents. It was not until the Victorian era, when the British came to India that women were actually made to cover themselves up with blouse pieces. Blouses are actually a very Victorian concept. The British are the ones who made our women wear the cholis.

So, are the Sri Rama Sene asking us to follow the Victorian tradition and deviate completely from the Indian tradition?

When Queen Victoria of England in the 19th century sent her men to rule India, what they saw of the country baffled them quite a bit. There were the madhushalas (drinking pubs in today’s parlance), the Devadasi dancers (we can call it dance bars of todays), the Konark temple and the Khajuraho temple which they discovered were much more liberal than the closed outlook of the Victorian era. Our culture has always celebrated the beauty of human body. That goes back to the stone age, much before the metals were discovered. And the bronze statues of goddess Lakshmi, Parvathi and lord Shiva in the various dynasties all depicted nudity.


Our women were never ashamed of their bodies and for God’s sake, we are the land of yoga. It was in fact after the British came to India that one saw the sculptures getting clothed, just as the women were. And it was Raja Ravi Varma’s paintings that depicted for the first time clothed goddesses and women. That is when the statues of Lakshmi, Parvathi and Shiva started being clothed. Whose culture are we defending? We had our own sense of morality before the British came and stamped it out.

The book South Indian Bronzes, authored by C Sivaramamurty and brought out by the Lalit Kala Akademi, talks about the existence of the metal images during the years of the Pallava, Pandya, Chola and Chera Kingdoms. And these metal images certainly depict nude images of our gods and goddesses.

Take a look at the material that the Government Museum, Madras, has got of 9th century AD Umamahesvara Nolamba sculpture from Hemavati in Anantapur district or the National Museum of India, New Delhi has of a late 7th century Pallava Kingdom of stone sculpture of Somaskanda. There are many such examples. References to the bronze figurine of the dancing girl, or fertility goddess, from Mohenjodaro, to the 18th century bronzes of the Vijayanagara period depicts nudity and the book ‘Masterpieces of Early South Indian Bronzes by R Nagaswamy, brought out by the National Museum, New Delhi, has vivid descriptions of the Indian culture.

DEVADASIS: The Devadasis who were dancing in the temples of South India were highly regarded and not treated as prostitutes. They preserved the Bharatanatyam, Odissi, and other temple dance forms and Indian music. The classical arts of India owe their existence to the Devadasis even today. And the Devadasis preserved our culture. Yet, the British banned the Devadasis sometime around 1926. Though the Devadasi system still exists in north Karnataka, they have now been reduced to common prostitutes with a glorified name. Women with multiple partners were not considered promiscuous in Indian culture. We had our own schools which taught the art of erotica.

The British passed the law to abolish the world’s oldest profession - prostitution. For them, the Devadasi system was a form of prostitution and nothing more. Though prostitution has not been stopped anywhere in the world, be it on the streets of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Delhi or Bangalore, or for that matter in any of the western countries including in England.
But when India got its Independence, we followed the British rule to the tee. May be it is time to take away that misnomer from the Devadasis. One person who broke away from that tradition of disowning the Devadasis was Rukmini Arundale who went on to form the Kalakshetra in Chennai.

Around the 13th century, just see what happened in the West. When Michelangelo was commissioned by the Vatican to create sculptures for the churches, he had actually created sculptures of nude men and women and goddesses. But the then Pope intervened and had the artists cover them up because it went against the sensibilities of the church and leaned more towards the Pagan rituals. That’s when Michelangelo hit upon the concept of covering the sculptures with fig leaves.
While the western sensibility was such, look at the Indian sensibilities of that time.

KHAJURAHO: This little village of Khajuraho in central India boasts the most perfect example of Hindu architecture of the 10th and 11th centuries. The temples are equally famous, for the wide variety of erotic sculptures that adorn their walls. The stone temples are profusely decorated with thousands of examples of sculpture of the most sensuous kind portraying exquisite, skimpily clad female forms, lavishly adorned with jewellery, enacting an ancient myth. Also interesting are fascinating and amusing excerpts from travel accounts of the 19th century British and French visitors who were both amazed by the ‘wonders of the place’ and horrified by the ‘indecent sculptures’ they found in Khajuraho.

KONARK: The amorous poses that dot the Konark temple in Orissa which is the chariot of the Sun God are derived from the Kama Sutra. And yet Rabindranath Tagore wrote this of the temple: “Here the language of stone surpasses the language of man”. Konark is a 13th century temple and is also known as the black Pagoda. There is some serious reading for many to do now on Indian culture. Certainly a recommendation for the Sri Rama Sene and the moral brigade

Indian]Indian women were topless before the British came, News - City - Bangalore Mirror,Bangalore Mirror women were topless before the British came, News - City - Bangalore Mirror,Bangalore Mirror

 

[baba firangi]

Islam is not all about across the other side terrorism. It's just that India is so annoying that it makes terrorists jump across the other side to commit an act of terror on India. Get it?

Oh !! Thanx for clearing that out for us.. And all these times i was trying to figure out the reason for the recent trouble between chinese police and uyghur terrorists in china.. My sympathies with you mate...

 

[Halaku Khan]

I am just posting something which is from a Hindu Indian writer not my opinion.

That article has no credible references. The so called "fertility godess" is that statue from Mohenjodaro. We don't even know that it represents a godess.

The term "godess" is a rather elastic term, and can mean many different things.

There is no tradition of nude depictions of Saraswati.

Anyhow, my take is Hussein is free to draw what he wants, and people are free to regard him with contempt as a foolish old pervert.

I think freedom of speech is important, and people should be free to critique religions without being threatened with violence and murder.

 

[Spring Onion]

That article has no credible references. The so called "fertility godess" is that statue from Mohenjodaro. We don't even know that it represents a godess.

The term "godess" is a rather elastic term, and can mean many different things.

There is no tradition of nude depictions of Saraswati.

Anyhow, my take is Hussein is free to draw what he wants, and people are free to regard him with contempt as a foolish old pervert.

I think freedom of speech is important, and people should be free to critique religions without being threatened with violence and murder.

I said it before too that there should be no such thing called freedom of expression which leads to hurting sentiments of any religion.

I dont see this phrase freedom of expression holding any weight specially when it is realy crossing the limits.

 

[adrenalin]

I said it before too that there should be no such thing called freedom of expression which leads to hurting sentiments of any religion.

I dont see this phrase freedom of expression holding any weight specially when it is realy crossing the limits.

You shout it loud, whenever there is an anti India propaganda. I would wait for the day, when the Taliban paints you nude and posts all your images in this forum. People like you should be ashamed of even being born in this world, let alone being called a Pakistani. I have seen Pakistanis in this forum, they are saner.

 

[Khajur]

Indeed he should have taken care of that.

I am just posting something which is from a Hindu Indian writer not my opinion.



Indian women were topless before the British came

I dont know how respond such utter ignorance some stupid indians show in the name of neo liberalism.

Well,the Epic hindu mythology Mahabharat written over 2000yr ago which the depict the the Battle of Kurukshetra was faught " on the insult inflicted by Duryodhana on Pandavas when he tried to disrobe Draupadi in front of the entire court, though her honour is saved by Lord Krishna who miraculously creates lengths of cloth to replace the ones being removed.

This rascal author is saying that hindu godess were worshipped nude in the past...forget cloths hindu idols usually covered with golds in our temples.

No where in our thousand year old ancient hindu mythologies like Ramayana, mahabharat or many hindu purans ,we read about indian woment moving topless even in those ancient time. Cloths and ornaments were regarded as the most loved article of ancient india women.

 

[Spring Onion]

You shout it loud, whenever there is an anti India propaganda. I would wait for the day, when the Taliban paints you nude and posts all your images in this forum. People like you should be ashamed of even being born in this world, let alone being called a Pakistani. I have seen Pakistanis in this forum, they are saner.

I said it many times before i do not support such freedom of expression which hurts sentiments of any religion.


As far as Indo-Pak issues are concerned i would indeed support my own country not yours similarly you will do the same.

You need some rest to avoid posting insane comments about members.

 

[Spring Onion]

I dont know how respond such utter ignorance some stupid indians show in the name of neo liberalism.

Well,the Epic hindu mythology Mahabharat written over 2000yr ago which the depict the the Battle of Kurukshetra was faught " on the insult inflicted by Duryodhana on Pandavas when he tried to disrobe Draupadi in front of the entire court, though her honour is saved by Lord Krishna who miraculously creates lengths of cloth to replace the ones being removed.

This rascal author is saying that hindu godess were worshipped nude in the past...forget cloths hindu idols usually covered with golds in our temples.

Khajur that is the point which confuses people when your own history books or writers mention that the nudity was there and not not to be ashamed of then people like us who have not much understanding of your faith or religion come up with questions like why Hussain should be baned of criticised when such a thing already existed.

 

[MilesTogo]

I am still confused - do you like nudity or not?

Khajur that is the point which confuses people when your own history books or writers mention that the nudity was there and not not to be ashamed of then people like us who have not much understanding of your faith or religion come up with questions like why Hussain should be baned of criticised when such a thing already existed.

 

[Khajur]

Khajur that is the point which confuses people when your own history books or writers mention that the nudity was there and not not to be ashamed of then people like us who have not much understanding of your faith or religion come up with questions like why Hussain should be baned of criticised when such a thing already existed.

There are few stupid neo liberals who are distorting someting that never existed and making ridiculous claims.

No hindu artist ever attempted to draw or make nude sulptures of hindu deties before.All nude sulptures belongs to courtesans and Apsaras at appear outside temples or else where .

Hussain as being a non hindu obviously lack knowledge in hindusim and went on to draw hindu god and goddess nude which looked stupid and hads no connections with hindu mythology and ended up onlu offending hindus.He should've followed the age old tradition especially when it comes religion ,but he has this penchat for drawing everything nude.


yes,We indians wrote kamasutra which is still very famous and culturally been modern society with liberal outlook till the arab invader destroyed indian culture and indian culture become conservative and inward looking.

 

[Chanakyaa]

If You say it right a right person willing to accept a right/valid point person will get it right in One Go, Why waste your Time Time in repeating the same stuff again n again ?

I think , This Thread has discussed a lot and it has become a mere wastage of bandwidth for a "defence" forum.

 

[Balance]

Freedom of expression???

Who is talking about freedom of expression here ???


The question is about hypocracy in your views when something is there already then why to make any hue and cry

I'm telling you for the last time.

NO HINDU GOD HAS BEEN PAINTED / SCULPTURED NUDE EVER.

The sculptures you see at Khajuraho are NOT of any God. They are just on the outer walls of the temple and were made in such way to encourage the people to enhance their reduced interest in sex, which was reduced because wrong interpretation of Dharma.

NOTE : After this amount of explanation, even a retard will understand the facts. One more time you bark this way, I'll take it as a deliberate attempt to insult Hindus and will complain to mods. And BDW, the 'freedom of expression' explaination was not for you. Go back a couple of pages and you'll know for whom it is.

 

[Balance]

Indeed he should have taken care of that.

I am just posting something which is from a Hindu Indian writer not my opinion.



Indian women were topless before the British came


The attack on pub culture by Sri Rama Sene and consequent moral policing by the so-called protectors of women and Indian culture may get some rude shock if they went back to Indian history and read books on the various dynasties of ancient India and its culture. If they have not read, I would recommend they read it now to get their facts right.

All scriptures and sculptures from ancient India stand testimony to our liberal outlook on matters of sex, dancing and drinking. Women walked around the streets topless and men accepted it as the norm. There were no untoward incidents. It was not until the Victorian era, when the British came to India that women were actually made to cover themselves up with blouse pieces. Blouses are actually a very Victorian concept. The British are the ones who made our women wear the cholis.

So, are the Sri Rama Sene asking us to follow the Victorian tradition and deviate completely from the Indian tradition?

When Queen Victoria of England in the 19th century sent her men to rule India, what they saw of the country baffled them quite a bit. There were the madhushalas (drinking pubs in today’s parlance), the Devadasi dancers (we can call it dance bars of todays), the Konark temple and the Khajuraho temple which they discovered were much more liberal than the closed outlook of the Victorian era. Our culture has always celebrated the beauty of human body. That goes back to the stone age, much before the metals were discovered. And the bronze statues of goddess Lakshmi, Parvathi and lord Shiva in the various dynasties all depicted nudity.


Our women were never ashamed of their bodies and for God’s sake, we are the land of yoga. It was in fact after the British came to India that one saw the sculptures getting clothed, just as the women were. And it was Raja Ravi Varma’s paintings that depicted for the first time clothed goddesses and women. That is when the statues of Lakshmi, Parvathi and Shiva started being clothed. Whose culture are we defending? We had our own sense of morality before the British came and stamped it out.

The book South Indian Bronzes, authored by C Sivaramamurty and brought out by the Lalit Kala Akademi, talks about the existence of the metal images during the years of the Pallava, Pandya, Chola and Chera Kingdoms. And these metal images certainly depict nude images of our gods and goddesses.

Take a look at the material that the Government Museum, Madras, has got of 9th century AD Umamahesvara Nolamba sculpture from Hemavati in Anantapur district or the National Museum of India, New Delhi has of a late 7th century Pallava Kingdom of stone sculpture of Somaskanda. There are many such examples. References to the bronze figurine of the dancing girl, or fertility goddess, from Mohenjodaro, to the 18th century bronzes of the Vijayanagara period depicts nudity and the book ‘Masterpieces of Early South Indian Bronzes by R Nagaswamy, brought out by the National Museum, New Delhi, has vivid descriptions of the Indian culture.

DEVADASIS: The Devadasis who were dancing in the temples of South India were highly regarded and not treated as prostitutes. They preserved the Bharatanatyam, Odissi, and other temple dance forms and Indian music. The classical arts of India owe their existence to the Devadasis even today. And the Devadasis preserved our culture. Yet, the British banned the Devadasis sometime around 1926. Though the Devadasi system still exists in north Karnataka, they have now been reduced to common prostitutes with a glorified name. Women with multiple partners were not considered promiscuous in Indian culture. We had our own schools which taught the art of erotica.

The British passed the law to abolish the world’s oldest profession - prostitution. For them, the Devadasi system was a form of prostitution and nothing more. Though prostitution has not been stopped anywhere in the world, be it on the streets of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Delhi or Bangalore, or for that matter in any of the western countries including in England.
But when India got its Independence, we followed the British rule to the tee. May be it is time to take away that misnomer from the Devadasis. One person who broke away from that tradition of disowning the Devadasis was Rukmini Arundale who went on to form the Kalakshetra in Chennai.

Around the 13th century, just see what happened in the West. When Michelangelo was commissioned by the Vatican to create sculptures for the churches, he had actually created sculptures of nude men and women and goddesses. But the then Pope intervened and had the artists cover them up because it went against the sensibilities of the church and leaned more towards the Pagan rituals. That’s when Michelangelo hit upon the concept of covering the sculptures with fig leaves.
While the western sensibility was such, look at the Indian sensibilities of that time.

KHAJURAHO: This little village of Khajuraho in central India boasts the most perfect example of Hindu architecture of the 10th and 11th centuries. The temples are equally famous, for the wide variety of erotic sculptures that adorn their walls. The stone temples are profusely decorated with thousands of examples of sculpture of the most sensuous kind portraying exquisite, skimpily clad female forms, lavishly adorned with jewellery, enacting an ancient myth. Also interesting are fascinating and amusing excerpts from travel accounts of the 19th century British and French visitors who were both amazed by the ‘wonders of the place’ and horrified by the ‘indecent sculptures’ they found in Khajuraho.

KONARK: The amorous poses that dot the Konark temple in Orissa which is the chariot of the Sun God are derived from the Kama Sutra. And yet Rabindranath Tagore wrote this of the temple: “Here the language of stone surpasses the language of man”. Konark is a 13th century temple and is also known as the black Pagoda. There is some serious reading for many to do now on Indian culture. Certainly a recommendation for the Sri Rama Sene and the moral brigade

Indian]Indian women were topless before the British came, News - City - Bangalore Mirror,Bangalore Mirror women were topless before the British came, News - City - Bangalore Mirror,Bangalore Mirror

I read the whole article. I'm sorry to say, but the author here has incomplete information.

Firstly, let's see how 'topless' were Indian women.
You must have heard of 'saree' (a one piece cloth Hindu women use to cover their body. Below is the very first image provided by Google for saree.



There are many styles of wearing it in different parts of country, but nowhere the breasts part is left uncovered. So, even when the common women did not use blouse, they did cover their breasts.
The ladies from royal families used blouses. The word for blouse is 'kanchuki' in Sanskrit. So, obviously, Saraswati was never topless.

Secondly, topless does not mean nude. There is a hell lot of difference. So, there was nothing of that kind which was 'present there already'.

NOW PLEASE STOP THE BS.

 

[Balance]

Dude, A defence forum is supposedly not the most approprite place to discuss religion or clear doubts regarding it... You can create your own blog if you are so inclined into demystifying Hinduism and helping others understand it better.. So that wehnever any need arises here, we can always refer it to your blog.. Wat say you??

Of course, this forum is not for those discussions. But again, this forum is the place where I find most discussion with misguided facts. I'm just trying to throw water where there's fire. So chill.

 

[MilesTogo]

this is one risky post...tc

You assumed I held a different position on the Muhammad cartoons. I hold the same position for any religion, whether it is Islam, Christianity, Judaism