Lee Kuan Yew

[Speeder 2]

I'll admit the caste system seems overblown, much like communism. I'm willing to take an Indian person at their word, since living in India would have a much better understanding of it than say someone like me, where the closest I been to India is Istanbul.

BUT Lee is a cool dude, he established a dynasty the Chinese leaders would be jealous of, as of this moment it is impossible for a top leader to pass the position to his children. He can certainly help them rise, but to get the number one chair, you need much more than family.


But one thing is funny, isn't Indians part of Singapore? I know at least one minister is of indian descent. So why the hate.....

You are quite wrong on this post, IMO, on several accounts. Let me explain:



1. Caste system is a HUGE prob. It's now a cancer actually.


It was set up originally to separate 2 or more different races of ppl: different waves of "high castes" "invaders" (Caucasoid)from ME area with average IQ of mid to high 80s from places around Persia, and "low castes" dark skinned "locals", the foundation and the masse of ancient "India" (Astraloid and/or heavily Astraloid mixed local tribes, aka "untouchables" etc) with average IQ well below 80.

This made sense originally, yet not any more today, due to unintentional, and intentional sometimes, mix-breeding amongst them on large scales with well over 50 generations (though not everyone, by and large so) through countless historical war time mass rapes, sex slaves (till now), etc thereafter. So the original purpose of "castes" has largely gone. Today's average "Indians", according to some recent research, are by and large "homogenous" in their own right, no matter he/she self-identified as "high caste" or "low caste". e.g. randomly take a person from Delhi street, you or I or anyone outside South Asia can not tell if he/she is "high "caste or "low" caste by physical appearance alone. They are, apart from possible many of the "untouchables", more or less the same "race"- a mixed Autraloid / Cacausoid / Mongoloid race, thus "homogeneous".

The economic disadvantage of this cancer is that: taking advantage of this ancient "caste" system, "high" caste Indians including half of them with mediocre IQ levels will keep milking the system with their unfair privileges, while more than half of "low" or "mid" caste Indians with very similar or even higher average IQ remain at the bottom of the society - a complete waste of human resources considering the # of those 3 SD above mean IQ (roughly 125 IQ) within India's 1.1 billion "low" and "mid" castes.

This also refutes the false claims that "high caste Indians have higher IQ than low castes" and "High castes Indians have average IQ of 120" alike, via the statement that " most Indians In the US are high castes and they are quite successful".

This is because most H1B opportunities are reserved for "high" castes, and when the best of them self-selected for H1B to USA they of course would appear highly successful compared to the average locals. Yet it doesn't refute the possibility that the crème of "low" or "mid" caste Indians, or any non-sub-Sahara tribe in the world for that matter, could do the exactly the same or even better and/or much better, should they share the same privileges.



2. On Singapore.

Unlike many here, I believe in the long run Singapore is doomed, due to its relatively anti- Chinese and pro-Indian immigration policy, alongwith with its different birth rates amongst different ethnic groups.

To be politically correct enough in order to be accepted by the Western political mainstream, Lee Kuan Yew, and his PM son in particular, have been pursuing a pro-Indian anti-(mainland) Chinese high tech immigration policy for ages., It's well documented in some overseas Singaporean forums with different voices that Indians from India have had multiple policy advantages on immigration to Singapore compared with a mainland Chinese with the same or even higher qualification, directly due to Singapore govt policy. The real burden is not this particular job which may require 120 IQ which some Indians would also have to fulfil, but the chain-immigration ( families with much lower IQ, and their families + much higher future birth rates respectively) and mean-reversal of IQ (towards mid 80s) for the descendants of these 120 IQ highly qualified Indians in the future decades.




This, coupled with much higher ethnic Malay and Indian birth rates would result a considerable change of population composition of the tiny place in the foreseeable future.

This is quite akin to the Islamification situation of current Europe, where Belgium, Sweden, Norway, France, a large part of Britain, and possible Denmark as well, will become Muslin-majority societies within 2 or even 1 generation.

Canada and Australia, in my view, are just another 2 "Singapores" with the similar perspectives.


But unlike Canada and Australia which also absorb a huge amount of Indian immigrants yet with quite large national natural resources to cushion with for some time, the non-Chinese majority future of Singapore, as tiny and resourceless as the land is, is rather hopeless to be honest.

 

[shuntmaster]

India was only considered a single country after the British. Before that there was no such thing as 'India'. It's like saying Africa is a single country. Most minority groups in India want independence. Sikhs, Tamils and Muslims being the most vocal.

This is like saying communists created China.

 

[shuntmaster]

1.For that you need to thank the Muslims and the Muslim rulers. The Hindu cast distribution covers all vocations except for leadership / rulers. Brahmins and Khsatryas have squabbled for this but their vocations temple management and warfare, respectively.

2. For salvation of SA, including present day India and Indians, a reversion to Muslim rule is essential.

1. Explain why most Muslim countries are sh!tholes today.. Maybe, if there was no Islamic invasion in subcontinent, India would have produced 50% of pre-colonial world GDP instead of just 25%. China, Brazil are developing their economies at rapid rates without any help from Islam.

2. I think I speak for most Indians when I say we would not be interested in going backwards in civilizational progress. If we have to go back, I would rather go back to the pre-Islamic times, when India was a powerhouse of scientific, spiritual and artistic progress.

 

[faithfulguy]

This is like saying communists created China.

Communist created people's republic of China. The unified nation of China was created in 221BC. And China has unified government for the majority of time since then. There were one dynasty after another holding the mandate of heavy. India, on the other hand, was created by the British. Without the British, there would be various nations in today's Indian subcontinent.

1. Explain why most Muslim countries are sh!tholes today.. Maybe, if there was no Islamic invasion in subcontinent, India would have produced 50% of pre-colonial world GDP instead of just 25%. China, Brazil are developing their economies at rapid rates without any help from Islam.

2. I think I speak for most Indians when I say we would not be interested in going backwards in civilizational progress. If we have to go back, I would rather go back to the pre-Islamic times, when India was a powerhouse of scientific, spiritual and artistic progress.

India should just go back to the time before British invasion.

 

[INDIC]

Communist created people's republic of China. The unified nation of China was created in 221BC. And China has unified government for the majority of time since then. There were one dynasty after another holding the mandate of heavy. India, on the other hand, was created by the British. Without the British, there would be various nations in today's Indian subcontinent.

Sorry, that unified China never included whole of current China, you are basically talking about united Han people existing within the Great wall of China, not Unified Modern areas of China. Also, for centuries where China was too divided in small states.

This is like saying communists created China.

China was united by Americans, Manchus already created a Manchu homeland called Manchukuo with the help of Japanese while Tibet and Uyghurs declared their independence in 1912.

 

[shuntmaster]

Communist created people's republic of China.

OK.. The Mongolians first created China and then the Manchus re-united it.

 

[INDIC]

Tibet was de facto independent. But they didn't even declared independent. Tibet has always been part of China for hundreds of years... Lee was a great leader.

That' not true, last Han dynasty Ming had no control over Tibet. Tibet was part of Manchus but it was more like a independent country and declared independence in 1912. This one is parade in Lhasa using Tibetan flag in 1938. I don't see ROC flag anywhere in the picture.

 

[INDIC]

OK.. The Mongolians first created China and then the Manchus re-united it.

For centuries Great wall of China had been the outskirt border of China, now Great Wall lies in mid of the China. And they claim China had been a united country since 200BC.

 

[Desertfalcon]

OK.. The Mongolians first created China and then the Manchus re-united it.

That map is awesome!

 

[INDIC]

Even Lee Kuan Yew believe this about India.

Lee says: “India is not a real country. Instead it is thirty-two separate nations that happen to be arrayed along the British rail line.”

this is what I have been sharing with this forum. Its no doubt that India is a great civilization but a country that have been put together by Britain. Without Britain, there would be no India today.

And many Indians would clearly disregard Mr Lee, But he has created Singapore. What had India done? India would be wise to consider his words.

Sir Stamford Raffles founded Singapore. Chinese, Malaya and Indian immigrants just inherited developed Singapore from the British.

 

[shuntmaster]

For centuries Great wall of China had been the outskirt border of China, now Great Wall lies in mid of the China. And they claim China had been a united country since 200BC.

Map of the world in 200BC.

The Indian Mauryan empire comprised of lands from Afghanistan to SriLanka. It comprised of area 50% larger than present day India.
On the other hand, the Chinese Han empire only comprised of central and eastern regions of present day China, which is about 40% of the present day China.

 

[shuntmaster]

Qin dynasty in 210BC

 

[INDIC]

I can't wait to get this book.

And I don't understand the Indian butt-hurt about his comments. None of them was derogatory or inaccurate. It's true that India is not a traditional nation-state (founded on one ethnic group), but a patchwork of different ethnic groups and tribes, sometimes loosely unified by Hinduism. And that this incoherency will more often than not, at the earliest stages of development, stifle progress.

Because he didn't know about Bharat which is key to Indian civilization So, how many people outside China know that China is called Zhong Guo.

 

[Desertfalcon]

As per the OP, what Lee Kuan Yew did is only a variation of the same reason why south Korea has also gone from a per capita GDP of less than $200 to one of the most successful countries in the world in just 40 short years, or you could look at Taiwan which made me chuckle when posters in this thread from communist China said that Yew was a model for their country. Really? You didn't notice the same thing going on just across the Formosa Straits in the Republic of China? It's called capitalism and free trade, education and constitutional law. And while Singapore may have been a more regulatory democracy, they acknowledged a wide degree of personal and political freedom. In short, successful countries are all successful in broadly the same ways; free enterprise and free ideas, constitutional law and an established respect for individual rights. No killing your own citizens because you hate the religion your neighbor believes in or how they live or what tribe they come from. The State is there to arbitrate between individual's rights, regulate the excesses of the economy, educate and protect and leave people and their private lives, their religious beliefs, personal beliefs, etc. alone and work on education, training, entrepreneurship and trade.

 

[INDIC]

Lee Kuan Yew ain't kidding today India is vastly different than yesterday India which was composed of tons of Principality & City States, but it has been unified twice under the Mauryan Dynasty in 321-185 BCE & the Gupta Dynasty in 320-550 CE. India is not a natural states in the original sense of the word. India is an artificial country the same as Indonesia (do you know we used to be called East India), but does being an "Artificial Country" actually lessen India in the world stage? There are tons of successful Artificial country like the Unites States & Germany.

List of princely states of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong analysis, in Indian civilization India is called Bharat(the land between the mountains of the North and the 3 seas of the South). Our Great epic Mahabharat means "Great India". All these are key to our Indian civilization.

Before British arrived Mughal had united whole of India, after their downfall Marathas were in control of majority of India and still expanding. most of these princely states were British creations, they fueled the rivalry among relatives, among governors to make India weak to make it easy to conquer.

Indonesia is a modern name, Bharat(India) is an ancient name.

Qin dynasty in 210BC

I don't see Tibet is united to China and the immediate neighbour of India(Maurya Empire).