Lee Kuan Yew

[Wholegrain]

Modern India includes territories which were conquered for it by the British and not a part of any Indian empire, like manipur, south tibet, mizoram, nagaland, and the andaman islands. They took them from the British Raj.

Sorry, that unified China never included whole of current China, you are basically talking about united Han people existing within the Great wall of China, not Unified Modern areas of China. Also, for centuries where China was too divided in small states.



China was united by Americans, Manchus already created a Manchu homeland called Manchukuo with the help of Japanese while Tibet and Uyghurs declared their independence in 1912.

Uyghurs did not declare independence in 1912.

Manchus did not create any homeland. Manchukuo was majority Han and its Prime Minister and most of the puppet government and army were Han. The Japanese set it up as a puppet state.

That' not true, last Han dynasty Ming had no control over Tibet. Tibet was part of Manchus but it was more like a independent country and declared independence in 1912. This one is parade in Lhasa using Tibetan flag in 1938. I don't see ROC flag anywhere in the picture.

No country recognized Tibet when it declared independence. All of them recognized it as part of China. Go look up Simla Accords in 1914. And which country stationed any embassy in Tibet? Tibet was unable to protest to the United Nations unlike Hyderabad State because everyone recognized China as the owner of Tibet.

For centuries Great wall of China had been the outskirt border of China, now Great Wall lies in mid of the China. And they claim China had been a united country since 200BC.

Great wall does not lie in the middle of China. It just fits the boundaries of inner mongolia. The modern great wall was built just 500 years ago bythe Ming and it was built behind the maximum borders of the Ming dynasty in order to help with defence. The Ming's borders went past the great wall at its greates extent.

 

[shuntmaster]

I don't see Tibet is united to China and the immediate neighbour of India(Maurya Empire).

Tibet was added to China when the Mongolians (Successors of Genghis Khan) were ruling China in 13th Century.

 

[faithfulguy]

Sorry, that unified China never included whole of current China, you are basically talking about united Han people existing within the Great wall of China, not Unified Modern areas of China. Also, for centuries where China was too divided in small states.



China was united by Americans, Manchus already created a Manchu homeland called Manchukuo with the help of Japanese while Tibet and Uyghurs declared their independence in 1912.

A nation's borders changes. But the most important thing is the identity of the nation. Chinese national identity was created in 221 BC and its the same identity today. There is usually one emperor. And when there are multiple claims to the imperial seat, each aspirant would regard all others as illegitimate. That case is manifested today between Taiwan and China. Both insist that all other nations must recognize one China and that they represent the true China.

 

[asad71]

1. Explain why most Muslim countries are sh!tholes today.. Maybe, if there was no Islamic invasion in subcontinent, India would have produced 50% of pre-colonial world GDP instead of just 25%. China, Brazil are developing their economies at rapid rates without any help from Islam.

2. I think I speak for most Indians when I say we would not be interested in going backwards in civilizational progress. If we have to go back, I would rather go back to the pre-Islamic times, when India was a powerhouse of scientific, spiritual and artistic progress.

All Muslim nations are doing well barring the Zionist media propaganda. India, on the other hand, remains the home of the largest poverty stricken people living with the biggest open **** house in the globe.

 

[shuntmaster]

All Muslim nations are doing well barring the Zionist media propaganda.

Whatever floats your boat mate. If you really believe Muslims are doing well, good for you..

 

[asad71]

Map of the world in 200BC.

The Indian Mauryan empire comprised of lands from Afghanistan to SriLanka. It comprised of area 50% larger than present day India.
On the other hand, the Chinese Han empire only comprised of central and eastern regions of present day China, which is about 40% of the present day China.

That's the Akhand Bharat pipe dream.

 

[shuntmaster]

That's the Akhand Bharat pipe dream.

How is it a pipedream, when I'm only stating a historical fact? I never mentioned AkhandBharat in any of my posts..

 

[faithfulguy]

Map of the world in 200BC.

The Indian Mauryan empire comprised of lands from Afghanistan to SriLanka. It comprised of area 50% larger than present day India.
On the other hand, the Chinese Han empire only comprised of central and eastern regions of present day China, which is about 40% of the present day China.

Unfortunately, Mauryan empire is not India. Its just the Mauryan empire as the Indian nation did not exist until the creation by the British. Many empires come and go in Indian subcontinent. And some of those have traditional Hindu or Buddhist background or influence. But none of them can be traced down to India today except British India. So your maps of India in the past just show that India is a geographical expression. Today's India, as well as Pakistan, can only be trace to British India.

 

[asad71]

Wrong analysis, in Indian civilization India is called Bharat(the land between the mountains of the North and the 3 seas of the South). Our Great epic Mahabharat means "Great India". All these are key to our Indian civilization.

Before British arrived Mughal had united whole of India, after their downfall Marathas were in control of majority of India and still expanding. most of these princely states were British creations, they fueled the rivalry among relatives, among governors to make India weak to make it easy to conquer.

Indonesia is a modern name, Bharat(India) is an ancient name.



I don't see Tibet is united to China and the immediate neighbour of India(Maurya Empire).

Hmmm! Dreams of Mahabharat / Akhand Bharat with eulogy to Bharat Mata and the political philosophy of Hindutva make India/ Indians laughing stock.

 

[faithfulguy]

Hmmm! Dreams of Mahabharat / Akhand Bharat with eulogy to Bharat Mata and the political philosophy of Hindutva make India/ Indians laughing stock.

Bharat is a term denoting a civilization, not a nation?

 

[shuntmaster]

Unfortunately, Mauryan empire is not India. Its just the Mauryan empire as the Indian nation did not exist until the creation by the British. Many empires come and go in Indian subcontinent. And some of those have traditional Hindu or Buddhist background or influence. But none of them can be traced down to India today except British India. So your maps of India in the past just show that India is a geographical expression. Today's India, as well as Pakistan, can only be trace to British India.

Now you are not making any sense buddy. You say Qin dynasty united China but Mauryan empire does not unite India..
Many Dynasty's came and went in China too after Qin dynasty. Sometimes more than one dynasty ruled different parts of China at the same time. Some dynasty's were foreign. Many Chinese consider the Manchus dynasty who ruled China from 15th to 20th century was foreign and were hated by Han Chinese.

 

[faithfulguy]

Now you are not making any sense buddy. You say Qin dynasty united China but Mauryan empire does not unite India..
Many Dynasty's came and went in China too after Qin dynasty. Sometimes more than one dynasty ruled different parts of China at the same time. Some dynasty's were foreign. Many Chinese consider the Manchus dynasty who ruled China from 15th to 20th century was foreign and were hated by Han Chinese.

In China, there is a succession of dynasties. Even when there are more than one ruler that rule only part of China, they would regard themselves as the legitimate ruler succeeded from the original Qin dynasty. In India, each kingdom and empires are independent of one another. This is why its easy for British India to split between India and Pakistan. In China, their historical past requires that Taiwan and CCP claim that they are the true government of China.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Wrong analysis, in Indian civilization India is called Bharat(the land between the mountains of the North and the 3 seas of the South). Our Great epic Mahabharat means "Great India". All these are key to our Indian civilization.

Before British arrived Mughal had united whole of India, after their downfall Marathas were in control of majority of India and still expanding. most of these princely states were British creations, they fueled the rivalry among relatives, among governors to make India weak to make it easy to conquer.

Indonesia is a modern name, Bharat(India) is an ancient name.



I don't see Tibet is united to China and the immediate neighbour of India(Maurya Empire).

"India" is a derogatory term coined by the Greece to describe the civilizations from beyond the Indus river. Princely states already exist since before the British came. All they do was just exploit it. Remember India never really have an "Empire" they have Confederation.

 

[INDIC]

"India" is a derogatory term coined by the Greece to describe the civilizations from beyond the Indus river. Princely states already exist since before the British came. All they do was just exploit it. Remember India never really have an "Empire" they have Confederation.

India is Greek term while Bharat is the Indian one. The name derived from King Bharata. The image you posted above is the Indian cultural influence, not of historical Bharat.

uttaraṃ yatsamudrasya himādreścaiva dakṣiṇam
varṣaṃ tadbhārataṃ nāma bhāratī yatra santatiḥ


"The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains is called Bhārat(India); there dwell the Bhārati."

Bharat is a term denoting a civilization, not a nation?

Was Zhong Guo a nation before ROC was formed in 1912.

 

[INDIC]

Hmmm! Dreams of Mahabharat / Akhand Bharat with eulogy to Bharat Mata and the political philosophy of Hindutva make India/ Indians laughing stock.

Akhand Bharat was given by Great Chanakya and Chandragupta Maurya even succeeded to unite whole of India.

Even the Muslim Empires across the world and Muslim converts and Empires in India agreed that the same Bharat is 'Hind' or 'Hindustan' throughtout history till 1947, it doesn't matter if you are Bangladeshi today, history don't change.

"Saare jahan se achcha, Hindustan hamara"(greatest among all, its our India)
-Allama Iqbal(Pakistan's national poet)