Leaked audio of Shaukat Tareen

[Jungibaaz]

All well and good...but is saying "Hey, we have floods, and combined this with the delayed receivables from your side, it would almost be impossible to run a surplus" really that reprehensible and an attempt to damage the process of bailout?

In other words, your people need help, but you aren't going to release funds to help and rehabilitate them, and say "Hey, we need to run a surplus, sorry, we cannot help you". Is this really the better option?

BTW, KP and Punjab are the only two provinces running a surplus for the past 3 years...but let me double check this figure too.

No, i disagree with your view here. They can and should ask for help. They should not insert themselves in a negotiation that is being done to prevent Pakistan's financial situation from becoming even more disastrous, by citing theirinability or unwillingness to comply with the terms of a bailout. As I said, the IMF fully expects us not to follow through (if needed because of floods) with as much of a primary surplus as was seen in some years especially at a federal level, especially given the conditions. They DO however expect us to negotiate in good faith, to be aligned as a nation in approaching them, and have all stakeholders aligned on the need for short-term restraints and medium/long-term reforms. If we do not abide by conditions, we do not get a bailout, the situation becomes much worse than the 1.8tn tax related fiscal adjustments we've had to make, Shaukat Tareen knows this.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

No, i disagree with your view here. They can and should ask for help. They should not insert themselves in a negotiation that is being done to prevent Pakistan's financial situation from becoming even more disastrous, by citing theirinability or unwillingness to comply with the terms of a bailout. As I said, the IMF fully expects us not to follow through (if needed because of floods) with as much of a primary surplus as was seen in some years especially at a federal level, especially given the conditions. They DO however expect us to negotiate in good faith, to be aligned as a nation in approaching them, and have all stakeholders aligned on the need for short-term restraints and medium/long-term reforms. If we do not abide by conditions, we do not get a bailout, the situation becomes much worse than the 1.8tn tax related fiscal adjustments we've had to make, Shaukat Tareen knows this.

I can understand the outcry on a so called potential hypothetical sabotage - but the actual sabotage of Pakistani economy has already unraveled.
18th amendment allows KPK to issue its concerns, the intention can be anything honestly and there is nothing unconstitutional in KPK govts. actions or this conversation. The only unconstitutional action is the actual illegal recording and its release.
Speaking on merit, what did the Federal govt do to resolve this issue with KPK? What tools were attempted besides literally trying to ‘screw’ PTI leaders and electrocuting their genitalia?
These are exactly the type of issues that will arise when our political philosophers illegally create a coalition of 10 parties with NO mandate in any major province! You clearly had a dysfunctional govt with a disenfranchised population.

If this were 2018, and PML or PPP derailing an IK government arranged bailout, you would not look so far for these means of explanation.

No offense, but if this happened in 2018 the only outcry from you sadly would have been the illegal recording.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I can understand the outcry on a so called potential hypothetical sabotage - but the actual sabotage of Pakistani economy has already unraveled.
18th amendment allows KPK to issue its concerns, the intention can be anything honestly and there is nothing unconstitutional in KPK govts. actions or this conversation. The only unconstitutional action is the actual illegal recording and its release.
Speaking on merit, what did the Federal govt do to resolve this issue with KPK? What tools were attempted besides literally trying to ‘screw’ PTI leaders and electrocuting their genitalia?
These are exactly the type of issues that will arise when our political philosophers illegally create a coalition of 10 parties with NO mandate in any major province! You clearly had a dysfunctional govt with a disenfranchised population.

So just to be clear, you're not here arguing that this was a good thing to do? If so, then let me just say, when a bailout is on the line, most other political considerations are secondary. This could have been a 110% illegitimate dictator at the helm, let's say Musharraf comes back and climbs the walls of PM house again, if it comes to an IMF bailout six months hence, derailing it would not be justified, the people would suffer the consequences. Bottom line.

 

[Jango]

No, i disagree with your view here. They can and should ask for help. They should not insert themselves in a negotiation that is being done to prevent Pakistan's financial situation from becoming even more disastrous,

But thing is, they are not inserting themselves. They didn't approach the IMF with "Hey, we know Miftah committed XYZ to you, but we are just letting you know that he was lying and we won't do any thing that was asked". They approached Miftah with the details and expressed the challenges they had. Now if KP cannot even talk to the finance minister regarding the difficulties they face in completing an agenda item that was previously agreed upon, then what can they talk about?

by citing theirinability or unwillingness to comply with the terms of a bailout.

The terms were changed though. When they signed the letter, Miftah committed that the outstanding issues would be resolved, and on that conditions KP committed to a surplus. When that commitment does not get fulfilled, then what?

Take the following scenario. You ask me to build a house in a month, and committ to me that I will get additional material for the house completion on the 15th day. But the day comes and you do not keep your end of the bargain and the additional material comes after 25 days. Would it be fair for you to still ask me to keep to the 30 day deadline? And I cannot raise my concern with you, that you did not keep your end of the bargain?

To cap it off though, from what little I have read and heard from media sources (DAWN, Shahbaz Rana) and from those I know in real, everyone agrees that the letter was inconsequential to the IMF decision and this was just political point scoring by N. It was simply an internal matter within Pakistan.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

So just to be clear, you're not here arguing that this was a good thing to do? If so, then let me just say, when a bailout is on the line, most other political considerations are secondary. This could have been a 110% illegitimate dictator at the helm, let's say Musharraf comes back and climbs the walls of PM house again, if it comes to an IMF bailout six months hence, derailing it would not be justified, the people would suffer the consequences. Bottom line.

Hmmm that kind of thinking actually justifies any unconstitutional measures - an economic collapse would warrant a martial law as well, as that is the bottom line? The bottom line cant be just willy nilly thrown without the obvious issues of dis functionality at play - The coalition has no power in more than half of Pakistan besides the legitimacy issues. The opposition in its time also did similar things such as attempts to block budgets, fatf laws etc. If they are that powerless now then the right thing to do is ask for cooperation rather than hammering your way out - if none works then solution is obvious.

 

[Wood]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564300404657192961

 

[imadul]

I don't see problem in the audio.
They are discussing provincial surplus and funds required for flood relief but out of concern they talked can this affect the country!!

They were discussing going for provincial advantage or for national.
This is normal talk between government functionaries.
On the other hand agencies, IB! Wholesale Tapping PTI phones which is a crime in itself. But all is kosher in Gestapo State.

 

[HAIDER]

But thing is, they are not inserting themselves. They didn't approach the IMF with "Hey, we know Miftah committed XYZ to you, but we are just letting you know that he was lying and we won't do any thing that was asked". They approached Miftah with the details and expressed the challenges they had. Now if KP cannot even talk to the finance minister regarding the difficulties they face in completing an agenda item that was previously agreed upon, then what can they talk about?



The terms were changed though. When they signed the letter, Miftah committed that the outstanding issues would be resolved, and on that conditions KP committed to a surplus. When that commitment does not get fulfilled, then what?

Take the following scenario. You ask me to build a house in a month, and committ to me that I will get additional material for the house completion on the 15th day. But the day comes and you do not keep your end of the bargain and the additional material comes after 25 days. Would it be fair for you to still ask me to keep to the 30 day deadline? And I cannot raise my concern with you, that you did not keep your end of the bargain?

To cap it off though, from what little I have read and heard from media sources (DAWN, Shahbaz Rana) and from those I know in real, everyone agrees that the letter was inconsequential to the IMF decision and this was just political point scoring by N. It was simply an internal matter within Pakistan.

It is a known fact, KPK FN try to contact Muftah for the last 4 months and he kept ignoring the official sitting offer from KPK FN. PDM is putting this country in the hotspot.
Who is who, time will tell and will backfire, on those who are manipulating this situation.

 

[HAIDER]

But thing is, they are not inserting themselves. They didn't approach the IMF with "Hey, we know Miftah committed XYZ to you, but we are just letting you know that he was lying and we won't do any thing that was asked". They approached Miftah with the details and expressed the challenges they had. Now if KP cannot even talk to the finance minister regarding the difficulties they face in completing an agenda item that was previously agreed upon, then what can they talk about?



The terms were changed though. When they signed the letter, Miftah committed that the outstanding issues would be resolved, and on that conditions KP committed to a surplus. When that commitment does not get fulfilled, then what?

Take the following scenario. You ask me to build a house in a month, and committ to me that I will get additional material for the house completion on the 15th day. But the day comes and you do not keep your end of the bargain and the additional material comes after 25 days. Would it be fair for you to still ask me to keep to the 30 day deadline? And I cannot raise my concern with you, that you did not keep your end of the bargain?

To cap it off though, from what little I have read and heard from media sources (DAWN, Shahbaz Rana) and from those I know in real, everyone agrees that the letter was inconsequential to the IMF decision and this was just political point scoring by N. It was simply an internal matter within Pakistan.

In Pakistani politics, there is no sense of commitment. ..My way or the highway. PMLN is known for its blackmail politics......a provincial financial issue changed to a national issue ... These same people signed 18th amendment..... lolzzz

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564226518112522240

 

[Goenitz]

@Jango @Jungibaaz @Signalian @Areesh

Bros... it was WhatsApp call which was taped

 

[Jango]

@Jango @Jungibaaz @Signalian @Areesh

Bros... it was WhatsApp call which was taped

Was it? I think I saw on TV some PTI guy said that they should have used whatsapp, not normal call.

Waisay baki sab to theek hai, but a few years back an IMF deal was selling Kashmir and selling the country, many are on record.

Aur aaj Pakistan Zindabad kay naray aisay laga rahay hain IMF deal par as if we are giving IMF the money and not the other way roud.

Sahi hai, sab nay hi IMF loan lia hai, but everyone has been shameful about it and tried to keep the news low, and not mark it as an achievement and be proud of it.

I don't see problem in the audio.

The only thing which is condemnable and worthy of discussion is that ST purportedly saying "State ka nuqsan hota hai to hoye, woh chairman par zulm kar rahay hain" or something to this effect.

I still haven't found the full audio of the conversation, so I will reserve my judgement on that for now if it's true or not. I will definitely not be surprised to see that it is doctored. I was just in a presentation last month on a feature for us where we used an automated voice over in the voice of a person of interest...so the tech is definitely there.

 

[HAIDER]

@Jango @Jungibaaz @Signalian @Areesh

Bros... it was WhatsApp call which was taped

Can someone hack my WhatsApp voice call?


Another WhatsApp vulnerability discovered in early 2019 was the Pegasus voice call hack. This scary attack allowed hackers to access a device simply by placing a WhatsApp voice call to their target. Even if the target didn't answer the call, the attack could still be effective.

 

[Goenitz]

Latest WhatsApp fake message claims all calls will be recorded: How to stay safe from such misinformation​

The latest viral message on WhatsApp states all calls on the platform will be recorded, all social media platforms will be monitored. It is false and you should not forward any message making such claims.​

Moeed Pirzada asked ST and he said it was WhatsApp call. Anyway, under Mark.Z anything is possible and whatsapp is not save..

 

[Jango]

BTW on a completely different note, the main charge sheet against Shaukat Tarin was yeh fauj ka banda hai, the army put him in as FM, bla bla bla. To itni jaldi kia ho gaya keh fauj kay banday say ghaddar ban gaya hai yeh?

 

[HAIDER]

Moeed Pirzada asked ST and he said it was WhatsApp call. Anyway, under Mark.Z anything is possible and whatsapp is not save..

Who has Pegasus ....someone or a third party helping this govt ...lollllllllllllll