Leaked audio of Shaukat Tareen

[ghazi52]

,..,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564288211807047681

 

[Jungibaaz]

Amazing that an ex-Finance Minister would try to sabotage an IMF bailout. For shame.

Sycophants don't quote me on this, keep cleaning up after your party and dear leader. This is really pathetic and sickening.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Funding recovery and supporting those who have suffered from the floods is an even bigger necessity - how exactly are the provincial governments supposed to show a budget surplus when hundreds of billions will be required for reconstruction, rehabilitation and aid for those affected by the floods?

I'm sorry but this is deflection. They clearly knew they were sabotaging the deal and that it would be bad for the state.

IMF demands for a surplus are rarely ever met anyway, and as for your point that funding a recovery is a bigger necessity. I'm sorry again but, would you be saying this if PPP or PML were actively derailing bailout attempts and then claiming we have an emergency elsewhere to deal with, even after having had proof that they undeniably knew what they were doing? I highly doubt it. This is IMO cognitive dissonance, flood relief can and should happen, but sabotaging an overdue IMF bailout is extremely irresponsible and reprehensible.

PTI is not asking what it was not asked and what it did not do itself.

They negotiated suspension of IMF conditions during COVID emergency. Now they are asking the same after devastating floods.

But zehni ghulam here, in the institution and government start pissing their pants the moment someone suggests to negotiate with their gora overlords due to the extraordinary situation.

Sabotaging a bailout =/= asking for relief, softening conditions later on and failing to deliver surpluses, which is to be expected. We often surpass IMF deficit targets, IMF has been asking us for a primary surplus for years. So this is clearly false.

And you know this, and the people in the leaked audio who CLEARLY say that this is going to damage the state, also know this. So please quit this farce and mental gymnastics.

 

[HAIDER]

Today's biggest achievement of this govt ... a loan approved by IMF..... we have no shame and we impose more taxes on poor people to pay back and few will remain enjoy...

This is the year 2017...

Pakistan loses $10bn a year to money laundering​

Anwar Iqbal Published March 6, 2017




31
WASHINGTON: The international community loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year due to trade-based money laundering, says a US report which identifies China, Russia, Mexico and India as the top four sources of illicit financial outflows.
The practice also costs Pakistan more than $10bn a year.
The US State Department’s International Narcotics Control Strategy Report, released a couple of days ago, refers to TBML (trade-based money laundering), the process by which criminals use a legitimate trade to disguise their criminal proceeds from their unscrupulous sources.
This practice allows traders and the currency mafia to launder hundreds of billions of dollars every year. It is one of the most sophisticated methods of cleaning dirty money and TBML red flags are among the hardest to detect.
In Pakistan, estimates of illicit financial flows put over $10bn as escaping taxation and being siphoned off outside the country. This is with nearly one-third of the population living below the poverty line.
The report identifies India as the fourth largest source of illicit financial outflows in the world. It notes that India’s main money laundering vulnerability comes from a widespread lack of access to formal financial institutions, particularly in the rural sector, that has resulted in the growth of informal financing networks.
The report also refers to a study by a United States think-tank, the Global Financial Integrity (GFI), which estimates that India loses up to $51bn every year due to illicit financial outflows.
China tops the GFI list with $139bn average outflow of illicit finances per annum, followed by Russia ($104bn) and Mexico ($52.8bn).
The section on Afghanistan notes that terrorist and insurgent financing, money laundering, bulk cash smuggling, abuse of informal value transfer systems and other illicit activities financing criminal activity continue to threaten the country’s security and development.
“Afghanistan remains the world’s largest opium producer and exporter. Corruption remains a major obstacle to the nation’s progress,” the report says.
It notes that Afghanistan’s National Unity Government has enacted laws and regulations to combat financial crimes, but faces a significant challenge in implementing and enforcing them.
The report also advises India to consider the regulation of traditional money transfer methods and further facilitate the development and expansion of new payment products and services, including mobile banking.
It notes that the most common money laundering methods in India include opening multiple bank accounts to hide funds, intermingling criminal proceeds with licit assets, purchasing bank cheques with cash and routing funds through complex legal structures.
Transnational criminal organisations in India use offshore corporations and TBML to disguise the criminal origins of funds and companies use trade-based money laundering to evade capital controls. Illicit funds are sometimes laundered through real estate, educational programmes, charities and election campaigns.
Laundered funds in India are derived from trafficking of narcotics and people and illegal trade, as well as tax avoidance and economic crimes.
Counterfeit Indian currency has also been a problem.
The report notes that in November 2016, the Reserve Bank of India demonetised the 500- and 1,000-rupee notes and introduced new banknotes to try to crack down on “black money” stemming from corruption, tax evasion and other illicit financial activities. While this action addresses the problem of counterfeit currency, it does little to mitigate long-term money laundering risks.
It complains that US investigators have had limited success in coordinating the seizure of illicit proceeds with Indian counterparts.
Published in Dawn, March 6th, 2017

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564300506390200320

 

[kingQamaR]

I'm sorry but this is deflection. They clearly knew they were sabotaging the deal and that it would be bad for the state.

IMF demands for a surplus are rarely ever met anyway, and as for your point that funding a recovery is a bigger necessity. I'm sorry again but, would you be saying this if PPP or PML were actively derailing bailout attempts and then claiming we have an emergency elsewhere to deal with, even after having had proof that they undeniably knew what they were doing? I highly doubt it. This is IMO cognitive dissonance, flood relief can and should happen, but sabotaging an overdue IMF bailout is extremely irresponsible and reprehensible.


Sabotaging a bailout =/= asking for relief, softening conditions later on and failing to deliver surpluses, which is to be expected. We often surpass IMF deficit targets, IMF has been asking us for a primary surplus for years. So this is clearly false.

And you know this, and the people in the leaked audio who CLEARLY say that this is going to damage the state, also know this. So please quit this farce and mental gymnastics.

No, its impossible. The trouble has been brewing and worsening with every government tenure. Loans have been taken left and right to reach this point.

Now nobody, not even Imran Khan could have save this country in few years. The nation will have to bear hard consequences, which were in part due to their ignorance. Its an exemplary case of “you reap what you sow”.

Long have we lived a life with leisure without concern, without accountability, looting each other where possible, it had to bite us in the back, someday.

The debt is now at critical levels, it has to be paid. Its no rocket science, either we have to increase exports which is long term, or take out loans and increase prices/taxes to stem the tide in the short term.

Total Debt being already reached 80% of annual GDP is a disastrous situation, vetted by even IMF. Perhaps only if IK could have stop all development schemes without repercussions, allocate money to only run the country, only then we would have been able to pay off the debts every year from our pockets.

 

[imadul]

Welcome to Gestapo Land.
Handlers and PDM have officially launched Geheime Staatspolizei.

 

[TacOps]

I'm sorry but this is deflection. They clearly knew they were sabotaging the deal and that it would be bad for the state.

IMF demands for a surplus are rarely ever met anyway, and as for your point that funding a recovery is a bigger necessity. I'm sorry again but, would you be saying this if PPP or PML were actively derailing bailout attempts and then claiming we have an emergency elsewhere to deal with, even after having had proof that they undeniably knew what they were doing? I highly doubt it. This is IMO cognitive dissonance, flood relief can and should happen, but sabotaging an overdue IMF bailout is extremely irresponsible and reprehensible.


Sabotaging a bailout =/= asking for relief, softening conditions later on and failing to deliver surpluses, which is to be expected. We often surpass IMF deficit targets, IMF has been asking us for a primary surplus for years. So this is clearly false.

And you know this, and the people in the leaked audio who CLEARLY say that this is going to damage the state, also know this. So please quit this farce and mental gymnastics.

If the letter was indeed a sabotage, why was the deal approved by IMF? Your answer would be that PDM begged and cajoled IMF, which isn't true - a lender would never approve a loan if it knows that there's internal strife and it's conditions would not be followed. The reality is that PTI never leaked that letter to the IMF.

Having said that, if the KP governments various reservations that they have been making since months were not resolved, I don't see an issue in publicising this issue. If my house was being put up as security to support the town where the mayor was a known sellout, I wouldn't be willing to commit my house.

 

[AZ1]

 

[HAIDER]

It is so surprising, that this govt is celebrating 1.2 billion from IMF. Imran Khan raised millions of dollars in a few hours....... this imported govt and their handlers, every overseas Pakistan still at a state of shock ... now every asking OVERSEAS Pakistan for help ...but again no one talks about our voting right ......The handlers now know that the next few years will be the hardest years to come.
Ask Zardari and Nawaz about their economic plans to build a new castles in UK and France.

 

[Jungibaaz]

No, its impossible. The trouble has been brewing and worsening with every government tenure. Loans have been taken left and right to reach this point.

Now nobody, not even Imran Khan could have save this country in few years. The nation will have to bear hard consequences, which were in part due to their ignorance. Its an exemplary case of “you reap what you sow”.

Long have we lived a life with leisure without concern, without accountability, looting each other where possible, it had to bite us in the back, someday.

The debt is now at critical levels, it has to be paid. Its no rocket science, either we have to increase exports which is long term, or take out loans and increase prices/taxes to stem the tide in the short term.

Total Debt being already reached 80% of annual GDP is a disastrous situation, vetted by even IMF. Perhaps only if IK could have stop all development schemes without repercussions, allocate money to only run the country, only then we would have been able to pay off the debts every year from our pockets.

It's not rocket science agree, but it is economics. If the GOP were to suddenly go on a saving spree and start paying back debt on net terms, they'd have to be running surpluses and let their debt balances run off. What does this mean fiscally? They'd be draining the GDP actively. They would shrink the economy to pay back debts.

This might be a prudent strategy for us as individuals, but it's disastrous at the state level. Your income is independent of your expenditure, which is why you can safely stop spending and still earn. In an economy, national income = national expenditure. If GOP saves en masse, Pakistan starves en masse. Pakistan's best bet is to stabilise the economy in the short term by IMF loans, and then follow through with reforms and live for a few years with poor growth. Then boost the savings rate and tax base, this will allow us to live out a few rough years but end the bailout cycle.

But still, all this said. Derailing an IMF deal does not make any sense, it's just pure damage inflicted on the economy.

If the letter was indeed a sabotage, why was the deal approved by IMF? Your answer would be that PDM begged and cajoled IMF, which isn't true - a lender would never approve a loan if it knows that there's internal strife and it's conditions would not be followed. The reality is that PTI never leaked that letter to the IMF.

Having said that, if the KP governments various reservations that they have been making since months were not resolved, I don't see an issue in publicising this issue. If my house was being put up as security to support the town where the mayor was a known sellout, I wouldn't be willing to commit my house.

Listen to the tapes man, they said they were going to cause damage to state, they said they did not want to be seen as doing this, so they'd employ tactics of bringing it forward. Again, I don't have the patience to engage in these copouts and attempts to deflect or excuse. They knew what they were doing, I know what they were doing, you should also take a hard look.

If this were 2018, and PML or PPP derailing an IK government arranged bailout, you would not look so far for these means of explanation.

 

[Jango]

So if the letter was this damaging and it would make or break the IMF deal, then why did it get approved?

I talked to someone who works at the State Bank, and according to them, and he was quoting Finance Ministry bureaucrats, this letter was of no consequence to the IMF. It was mainly for the finance ministry, keh bhai yeh surat-e-haal hai, ham say surplus nhn hona, to agay aap dekh len kaisay aap manage karain gay.

IMF doesn't give two hoots what a province commits to the federal government or not, since IMF is dealing with federal ministry, This was just a formality.

If anyone here who has worked with the IMF or finance ministry directly can chime in with a first hand account, that would be helpful too.

IMO, this letter was blown WAAAYYY out of proportion by N league to score some political points, which they have sort of did. It had not real implications for the IMF deal. You can clearly see that the leak of the letter and then the audio tape was very deliberately planned with the sole purpose of discrediting PTI.

And still searcdhing for it, does anyone have the full audio?

 

[Jungibaaz]

So if the letter was this damaging and it would make or break the IMF deal, then why did it get approved?

I talked to someone who works at the State Bank, and according to them, and he was quoting Finance Ministry bureaucrats, this letter was of no consequence to the IMF. It was mainly for the finance ministry, keh bhai yeh surat-e-haal hai, ham say surplus nhn hona, to agay aap dekh len kaisay aap manage karain gay.

IMF doesn't give two hoots what a province commits to the federal government or not, since IMF is dealing with federal ministry, This was just a formality.

If anyone here who has worked with the IMF or finance ministry directly can chime in with a first hand account, that would be helpful too.

IMO, this letter was blown WAAAYYY out of proportion by N league to score some political points, which they have sort of did. It had not real implications for the IMF deal. You can clearly see that the leak of the letter and then the audio tape was very deliberately planned with the sole purpose of discrediting PTI.

And still searcdhing for it, does anyone have the full audio?

IMF has been asking the federal government to run surpluses for years, this is a high bar and it's never met for reasons I outlined above. PTI citing this surplus requirement is not a good excuse for what they did.

I also work with National Treasuries/DMOs, multilateral creditors (but on their funding side). I have not worked with the IMF, because frankly their job is to bail out states, but in their place I work with governments, World Bank, IDA, ADB etc on the markets side.

Irrespective of whether the IMF takes the threat to not comply seriously or not, it is an attempt to damage the process of a bailout. It serves no other purpose in practice. When combined with the hoops a coalition government has to jump through to convince creditors, this is as close to an attempt at sabotage without actually doing something even more insane. A failed attempt, but still quite reprehensible.

 

[Jango]

IMF has been asking the federal government to run surpluses for years, this is a high bar and it's never met for reasons I outlined above. PTI citing this surplus requirement is not a good excuse for what they did.

I also work with National Treasuries/DMOs, multilateral creditors (but on their funding side). I have not worked with the IMF, because frankly their job is to bail out states, but in their place I work with governments, World Bank, IDA, ADB etc on the markets side.

Irrespective of whether the IMF takes the threat to not comply seriously or not, it is an attempt to damage the process of a bailout. When combined with the hoops a coalition government has to jump through to convince creditors, this is as close to an attempt at sabotage without actually doing something even more insane. A failed attempt, but still quite reprehensible.

All well and good...but is saying "Hey, we have floods, and combined this with the delayed receivables from your side, it would almost be impossible to run a surplus" really that reprehensible and an attempt to damage the process of bailout?

In other words, your people need help, but you aren't going to release funds to help and rehabilitate them, and say "Hey, we need to run a surplus, sorry, we cannot help you". Is this really the better option?

BTW, KP and Punjab are the only two provinces running a surplus for the past 3 years...but let me double check this figure too.

 

[TsAr]

So if the letter was this damaging and it would make or break the IMF deal, then why did it get approved?

I talked to someone who works at the State Bank, and according to them, and he was quoting Finance Ministry bureaucrats, this letter was of no consequence to the IMF. It was mainly for the finance ministry, keh bhai yeh surat-e-haal hai, ham say surplus nhn hona, to agay aap dekh len kaisay aap manage karain gay.

IMF doesn't give two hoots what a province commits to the federal government or not, since IMF is dealing with federal ministry, This was just a formality.

If anyone here who has worked with the IMF or finance ministry directly can chime in with a first hand account, that would be helpful too.

IMO, this letter was blown WAAAYYY out of proportion by N league to score some political points, which they have sort of did. It had not real implications for the IMF deal. You can clearly see that the leak of the letter and then the audio tape was very deliberately planned with the sole purpose of discrediting PTI.

And still searcdhing for it, does anyone have the full audio?

The letter was an internal matter between 2 finance ministers. The reason letter was written was because Miftah was to busy to give time to finance minister of a province. IMF had nothing to do with this letter. If this letter was so sabotaging then why did IMF agree to release tranche tonight.