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LCA :: Affordable air power

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In my last meeting, Nawaz Shareef told me how our Turkish dramas were replacing Indian Star Plus. I couldn't understand the comment so later I asked my intelligence to give me a summary of what is Indian "Star Plus"?

What they showed me was completely shocking. Star Plus is apparently a shitty, head-less, meaningless boring bonanza of idiocy which causes hundreds of millions of Indians to waste their time while their country dies.

Pakistanis must remain aware of such viruses coming from India.

Also, I also don't like the drama that was being shown in Pakistan as "Turkish Drama" ....That drama was so stupid.

:mad:

Dude, no offence to you, but before quoting this type of message, you must read about Tejas features compared to Jf-17.

Tejas in its current form is way better than anything PAF have in its inventory,(setting aside few F-16 blk 52).


Radar on Tejas is way better than Klj-7 radar of Jf-17

EW system, and other avionics on Tejas is way better than Jf-17

Tejas has quadruple fly by wire flight control system on all it's axis whereas Jf-17 has fly by wire only on two axis

70% of the surface area of Tejas and 45% by weight is made up of carbon fibre composite compared to aluminium body of Jf-17

RCS value of Tejas is way low than Jf-17

Being in same weight category with Jf-17, it has got higher thrust engine, which gives it better thrust to weight ratio compared to Jf-17

It has achieved Mach 1.1 at sea level (same what Su 30mki achieved) with full load which Jf-17 has not (atleast no reliable source is there to claim)

It has got HUD system for pilots which Jf-17 does not offer

It can do a vertical loop in 20 secs even with restricted flight envelope, something which Jf-17 can't do only (shows it's agility)

And there are many more........... and you will get a reliable source for all these claims.


Note:- Just because IAF rules towards Tejas is very stringent & they don't induct anything that can stay in air, you can't devalue the performance of a beautiful machine.
 
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Yes Mateo_O It shows how Less Knowledge Our media have regarding Defense .Writer of a this article have Zero Knowledge Regarding fighter aircraft's.He Didn't even Differentiate between Fighter weight Class and Its Roles In War-Time . And Still He Is Behaving Like An Expert in Aeronautical Engineering.:sick::sick:


Same goes to Both India and Pak We are wasting time in creating 4 gen tech Which is Almost 3 decades old Whereas we should be concentrating It for Future Tech which Fifth gen.Its A age of Ferrari and we are still Pulling Bullock carts As compare to the west

God knows when the clown will understand you can't use a point defence fighter for a medium strike role. Hell the idiot hasn't even compared the combat radius of the 2 jets. This article belongs in the dustbin.

The author has absolutely no clue what he's talking about! This is so much bullshit!

Has he heard of roles different aircraft are required to perform? Force multipliers? Threat perceptions? He's just talking of the financial aspects! How dumb can armchair 'strategists' get?

Financial aspects are also wrong. I think he's comparing fly-away cost of LCA with Lifetime costs of Rafale.
 
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But we are sure HAL is developing a formidable fighter, if this comment is regarding JF17 by now mods and Pakistanis would have got pissed off and would have banned you ..... :lol:

Don't get me wrong, but even I, as a non-indian, feel kind of "embarrassed" about reading Tejas now

What a laughing stock this miserable failure has become

While Tejas competition, Pakistani-Chinese JF-17, has left it far,far behind...Tejas are still trying to save face by salt-pepper articles in Indian news papers.

The biggest bitch slap to India would be if Pakistan inducts its JF-17 block II before India inducts its first Teja MK-1 in air force.

:lol:
 
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No serial production Tejas has ever rolled off the assembly line, and won't be till next year at the earliest :lol:

Tejas in its current form is way better than anything PAF have in its inventory,(setting aside few F-16 blk 52).


Serial production JF-17s have full digital FBW and full glass cockpit with 3 big LCDs. Only prototype JF-17s had partial FBW and partial glass cockpit with 2 small LCDs.

70% of the surface area of Tejas and 45% by weight is made up of carbon fibre composite compared to aluminium body of Jf-17


Tejas is only some 200 pounds lighter than JF-17. Then again, JF-17 is a much bigger plane than Tejas.

It has got HUD system for pilots which Jf-17 does not offer


Careful. You can be sent to the madhouse for making such a comment. :o:

RCS value of Tejas is way low than Jf-17


I would imagine JF-17 has a lower RCS than Tejas. DSI hides engine better than S duct intakes do, which is why F-35 has DSI whereas older F-22 does not.
 
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Don't get me wrong, but even I, as a non-indian, feel kind of "embarrassed" about reading Tejas now

What a laughing stock this miserable failure has become

While Tejas competition, Pakistani-Chinese JF-17, has left it far,far behind...Tejas are still trying to save face by salt-pepper articles in Indian news papers.

The biggest bitch slap to India would be if Pakistan inducts its JF-17 block II before India inducts its first Teja MK-1 in air force.

:lol:
What is new will be Block-II which is not Present i LCA -BK-1??
 
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What is new will be Block-II which is not Present i LCA -BK-1??
The Block II JF-17 has improved avionics, weapons load and carriage capability, a data link and an electronic warfare suite, plus an in-flight refueling capability, but officials are reluctant to give specific details.
NRIET KLJ-7 X-band radar will have been retained for the Block I/II aircraft, and standoff weapons such as the Ra’ad air-launched cruise missile, H-2/H-4 glide bomb and Mectron MAR-1 anti-radiation missile might also have been integrated onto the Block II jets.

Multiple ejector racks will make up for a lack of additional weapon store stations, and a dedicated designator pod station could be added later underneath the plane’s port intake.

No JF-17 has been seen carrying a designator pod, but a Chinese type will likely enter service, even though spokesperson for the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Shabbir said the Pakistan Air Force’s Air Weapons Complex “has also developed one in collaboration with a European firm.”
 
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The Block II JF-17 has improved avionics, weapons load and carriage capability, a data link and an electronic warfare suite, plus an in-flight refueling capability, but officials are reluctant to give specific details.


Block 1 already has data link, which is standard on all the latest planes. Block 2 has a more advanced data link, radar, EW, HUD.
 
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Don't get me wrong, but even I, as a non-indian, feel kind of "embarrassed" about reading Tejas now

What a laughing stock this miserable failure has become

While Tejas competition, Pakistani-Chinese JF-17, has left it far,far behind...Tejas are still trying to save face by salt-pepper articles in Indian news papers.

The biggest bitch slap to India would be if Pakistan inducts its JF-17 block II before India inducts its first Teja MK-1 in air force.

:lol:

No need to be. It has given India a lot of capabilities that are not there in the entire Islamic world, let alone your Pakistan.

It is like comparing Our Mars mission with your puny Nasr as your TV anchors do!

Now that is some embarrassment... ;)

 
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Don't get me wrong, but even I, as a non-indian, feel kind of "embarrassed" about reading Tejas now

What a laughing stock this miserable failure has become

While Tejas competition, Pakistani-Chinese JF-17, has left it far,far behind...Tejas are still trying to save face by salt-pepper articles in Indian news papers.

The biggest bitch slap to India would be if Pakistan inducts its JF-17 block II before India inducts its first Teja MK-1 in air force.

:lol:

It looks a mockery to you is because it is Indian and you are itchy about it. Think of your aviation Industry before you bitch about India
 
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No need to be. It has given India a lot of capabilities that are not there in the entire Islamic world, let alone your Pakistan.

It is like comparing Our Mars mission with your puny Nasr as your TV anchors do!

Now that is some embarrassment... ;)



So what? Mars has nothing. China can land on the Moon. Doesn't mean Taiwan will join China. If India even tries to invade Pakistan, boom, UN Security Council Resolution. 8-)
 
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What is the exact Pakistani contribution in JF 17, apart from money?

We developed Tejas on our own, several crictal avionics and FBW of Tejas is developed by India, is same true for JF-17?

I am all ears.
You biased Indian Hater.. Eh @Oscar ?
 
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Affordable air power - The Hindu

vbk-16-tejas_1847529f.jpg

AP ADVANTAGE LCA: The IAF could buy 200 Tejases instead of 126 Rafales and still save nearly $14 billion or Rs. 84,000 crore. Picture shows the aircraft taking off in Bangalore. File photo

The largely Indian designed Tejas light combat aircraft is not in the same class as the Rafale, but it is far more capable than the MiG-21s it was designed to replace
The Defence Minister is entirely justified in refusing to sign a $20 billion contract with Dassault Aviation of France for 126 Rafale fighters while life cycle costs are still disputed; these costs are typically at least three times as much as the initial acquisition price over the three to five decades that combat aircraft often operate for. As we head for a new government in Delhi, it is appropriate to consider alternatives to this hugely expensive acquisition.

India’s geostrategic environment requires the Indian Air Force (IAF) to be prepared for a simultaneous two front confrontation at multiple levels. This necessitates a combat aircraft mix of expensive high-end fighters like the Su-30 and the forthcoming fifth generation fighter aircraft along with large numbers of cheaper tactical aircraft. The latter could easily deal with low intensity conflicts where it might be risky to use high value assets like the Sukhois.

Rapid retirement of hundreds of MiG-21s, -23s and -27s that have been the tactical backbone of the IAF for decades leaves just over six upgraded MiG-21 and four ground attack MiG-27 squadrons. This means that the IAF’s inventory of combat aircraft is currently well below its sanctioned 39-and-a-half squadron strength perhaps unable to fight widely spaced conflagrations against even a single adversary. Its 2001 plan to fill the gap by significantly adding to the 49 Mirage 2000s it then had was scuppered by Defence Ministry mandarins who forced it to go in for competitive tendering. Delays in the procurement process saw the Mirage going out of production and international pressure made sure that the final tender included much heavier and expensive aircraft than the tactical ones that the service originally wanted, leave alone needed.

Cost of aircraft

A request for proposals (RfP) finally went out on July 28, 2007 for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCAs), with an option for 63 more. Rs.42,000 crore, then worth approximately $10.25 billion, was budgeted to purchase the 126 aircraft. Recent reports indicate that the short-listed Rafales are now expected to cost over $20 billion, not least because of nearly 50 “miscellaneous” items that were left unpriced as part of the original French bid. Not only will the 126 aircraft cost about twice as much in dollar terms as originally budgeted for, depreciation of the rupee with respect to the dollar since the RfP was issued from less than 41 to over 60 will force us to effectively pay about three times as much, nearly Rs.120,000 crore, just in initial acquisition costs with over Rs.30,000 crore of that paid up front.

Interestingly, five of the same aircraft that participated in the Indian MMRCA competition were simultaneously bid for in a similar Brazilian tender. The head of the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), Juniti Saito, has recently stated that they chose the Swedish Gripen NG after an exhaustive evaluation emphasised its performance, the degree of technology transfer and price. The FAB estimated that it would cost $4,000 per flying hour rather than about $14,000 for the heavier Rafale. SAAB quoted $4.5 billion as the initial acquisition cost of the Gripens plus $1.5 billion for maintenance support over 30 years while the Rafale was $8.2 billion, plus $4 billion.

The Rafale’s quoted unit cost was thus 82 per cent more than that for the single-engined Gripen while the Brazilians estimated that the Rafale’s two engines and expensive maintenance would make it cost a full 250 per cent more to keep in the air.

These figures for the Rafale are in line with those from the defence and security committee of the French Senat which estimated in 2011 that the Rafale programme cost would be €43.56 billion for 286 aircraft.

The largely Indian designed and developed Tejas multirole light combat aircraft (LCA) is not in the same class as the Rafale, but it is far more capable than the MiG-21s it was designed to replace. Modern radar and ground targeting systems, both coupled to a helmet-mounted display and sight, confer superb target acquisition and missile launch capability. Advanced beyond visual range and close combat missiles, along with precision guided munitions, make it more potent than the more powerful MiG-23s and -27s. Even if unit prices rise to $30 million by the time it attains full operational capability, 126 Tejas fighters would still cost well under $4 billion, or a fifth of an equal number of Rafales.

Operating costs would probably be comparable to that of the frugal Gripen largely because it is small, light and powered by a slightly different version of the efficient and hugely reliable GE-F404 engines that also power currently operational Gripens.

While exact comparisons between the Brazilian and “leaked” quotations for Indian Rafales are not possible, not least because of differences in numbers and payment terms, the small difference in unit acquisition cost between the two suggests that the widely reported Indian estimates are very credible. The IAF could buy 200 Tejases instead of 126 Rafales and still save nearly $14 billion or Rs.84,000 crore; this is closely comparable to the 2013-14 capital acquisition budget for the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force. The FAB’s estimates also suggest that the IAF would save over $170 million annually even if 200 Tejases, instead of 126 Rafales, each flew 15 hours per month.

Losing credibility

There is no doubt that Indian designers took on the ambitious task of developing an advanced technology aircraft without realistically estimating the resources required to accomplish their goals in the face of an often sceptical IAF and not always fully committed Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). They then lost a great deal of credibility by projecting completion dates that were, at best, exercises in self-delusion. The Tejas has fortunately got a recent lift because Dr. R.K. Tyagi, HAL’s current chairman, seems committed to the little fighter.

It would be extremely foolish to break up the Tejas teams involved in the further development of its composite airframe and world class flight control system while full operational capability is very much a work in progress and redesign of the aircraft to more fully meet the IAF’s needs is at a critical stage.

Some commentators seem unaware that the Rafale entered service in 2001 nearly 15 years after it first took to the air; an interval that will only be slightly exceeded when the Tejas reaches Final Operational Clearance (FOC) late next year. The IAF has been far more demanding of the Tejas than it has been with respect to the MMRCA contenders whether on the hot and high airstrip at Leh or during Jaisalmer’s dusty summers. The service also seems to have forgotten that the Mirage 2000 was armed only with a cannon for three years after it entered service; largely ineffectual during the dangerous “Operation Brass Tacks” of 1986-87.

To summarise, going ahead with the MMRCA programme will cripple India for decades to come. Affordable air power is effective air power. Conversely, unaffordable air power is poor strategy.
so basically Rafael deal is materializing!!!
 
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