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Lasting lesson of 1962: dont be caught off-guard again
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Ajaxpaul
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hahahaa...says a person from a land who for 60 yrs were directed by Americans and for the next 60 yrs aims to be directed by the chinese.
a pakistani comparing Indian prowess to nepal. Very Amusing..LOLWe are waiting for the corrective therapy which will never come.
Just be patient China and Pakistan will in due course break up India into 34 countries for the sake of peace in our neighbourhood. You have forgotten 1962 spanking haven't you?
Ajaxpaul
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hahaha..nice try to bait...You know who has done the breaking right.. your posts are all amusing..i like it.
Mate I am not baiting you. I am speaking on behalf of the many peoples that India has forced to live under Hindutva
patience ..... !!!!
We've got bored ... waiting and waiting for what China and Pakistan will do in due course.....
I think your "secret strategy" is to kill us due to boredom.
How to plan against such a potent strategy.
Mate this thread is about the famous Chinese spanking of India. If you want to go off topic or go and start another thread. can you not read the thread title?????
Circles within circles. Hindutva forcing people to live a certain way of life. People in neighbourhood not happy-Nehru want to introduce forward policy to some Chinese to enforce hindutva so Chinese teach Indians to behave in 1962-simple really
Killswitch
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India's government needs to move on to plutonium based weapons, then scrap the no first use doctrine. Once enough ICBM's are pointed at the major cities of China, India can then do what Pakistan does to India, which is carry our foreign policy under a nuclear umbrella. If China then invades and conventional forces cannot hold them back, mutually assured destruction in the form of a nuclear holocaust will ensue.
In this situation Chinese aggression is less likely than it is today.
In this situation Chinese aggression is less likely than it is today.
patience ..... !!!!
We've got bored ... waiting and waiting for what China and Pakistan will do in due course.....
I think your "secret strategy" is to kill us due to boredom.
How to plan against such a potent strategy.
Well you were given a taster in Bombay for which you blamed us but didn't have the balls to do anything about. That relieved the boredom for some of you didn't it
Ajaxpaul
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Enforce Hinduvata to chinese...hahahahaaa...you can give that point to the drama queen...he will appreciate you for this.
You are off topic but you look good in a pink sahri.
Back to topic India must never forget the spanking it got in 1962. We must assist our Indian brothers and remind them
Free Soul
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Sino-Indian Conflict
Location
China and India share a long border, sectioned into three stretches by Nepal, Sikkim (now Indian state of Sikkim) and Bhutan, which follows the Himalayas between Burma and what was then West Pakistan. A number of disputed regions lie along this border. At its western end is the Aksai Chin region, that sits between the Chinese autonomous region of Xinjiang and Tibet (which China declared as an autonomous region in 1965). The eastern border, between Burma and Bhutan, comprises the present Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh (formerly the North East Frontier Agency). Both of these regions were overrun by China in the 1962 conflict.
Aksai Chin vast region of salt flats at roughly 5,000 meters above sea level, and Arunachal Pradesh is extremely mountainous with a number of peaks exceeding 7000 metres.
Military tactics suggest that for an attack, the ratio in numbers should be roughly 3:1 in favour of the attackers – if one wants to capture and then later hold the objective. In mountain warfare this ratio should be considerably higher as the terrain favours defence.
Despite the disadvantage of this, China was able to take advantage of the terrain: the Chinese Army had possession of the highest ridges in the regions. The high altitude and freezing conditions also cause logistical and welfare difficulties; in past similar conflicts (such as the Italian Campaign of World War I) more casualties have been caused by the harsh conditions than enemy action. The Sino-Indian War was no different, with many troops on both sides dying in the freezing cold.
The western portion
The McMahon Line is the red line marking the northern boundary of the disputed area.
Background
The McMahon Line
In short - The McMahon Line is a line agreed to by Britain and Tibet as part of the Simla Accord, a treaty signed in 1914. Although its legal status is disputed, it is the effective boundary between China and India.
Nehru and promotion of the slogan Hindi-Chini Bhai-Bhai
In the 1950s, India-China relations were cordial and the boundary dispute quiet. The Indian government under PM Nehru promoted the slogan Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai. (India and China are brothers). During Pakistani officials meetings held between India and Pakistan, at airport arrivals and on route – the Indian government at times setup processions with people chanting Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai, reason was obvious to show Pakistan that India is at good terms with China to the detriment of Pakistan.
China was willing to accept McMahon line
Zhou Enlai offered to accept the McMahon Line in 1956, but only in the context of border negotiations as equals, because simply accepting the British boundary would leave the stigma of the unequal treaty and hurt Chinese pride. But Nehru maintained his 1950 statement that he would not accept negotiations if China brought the boundary dispute up, hoping that "China would accept the fait accompli (an established/accomplished fact). In 1954, India renamed the disputed area the North East Frontier Agency.
India acknowledged that Tibet was a part of China and gave up its extraterritorial rights in Tibet inherited from the British in a treaty concluded in April 1954. Nehru later claimed that because China did not bring up the border issue at the 1954 conference, the issue was settled. But the only border India had delineated before the conference was the McMahon Line. Several months after the conference, Nehru ordered maps of India published that showed expansive Indian territorial claims as definite boundaries, notably in Aksai Chin. In the NEFA sector, the new maps gave the hill crest as the boundary, although in some places this line is slightly north of the McMahon Line.
The failure of the 1959 Tibetan uprising and the 14th Dalai Lama's arrival in India in March led Indian parliamentarians to censure Nehru for not securing a commitment from China to respect the McMahon Line. Additionally, the Indian press started openly advocating Tibetan independence. Nehru, seeking to quickly assert sovereignty in response, established "as many military posts along the frontier as possible", unannounced and against the advice of his staff. On discovering the posts, and already suspicious from the ruminations of the Indian press, Chinese leaders began to suspect that Nehru had designs on the region. In August 1959, Chinese troops captured an Indian outpost at Longju.
Letter from Jawaharlal Nehru to U Nu, the Prime Minister of Burma, showing that the Chinese leadership had no problem to recognize this demarcation between India and 'China's Tibet' in the 1950's.
The conflict
China proposes that each side withdraws 20 km away from Line LAC - McMahon Line
In a letter to Nehru dated 24 October 1959, Zhou Enlai proposed that India and China each withdraw their forces 20 kilometers from the line of actual control. Shortly afterward, Zhou defined this line as "the so-called McMahon Line in the east and the line up to which each side exercises actual control in the west".
(The Line of Actual Control (LAC) is the effective border between India and People's Republic of China (PRC). The LAC is 4,057-km long and traverses three areas of northern Indian states: western (Ladakh, Kashmir), middle (Uttarakhand, Himachal) and eastern (Sikkim, Arunachal). Chinese Prime Minister Zhou Enlai first used the phrase in a letter addressed to Indian Prime Minister Nehru dated 24 October 1959.)
Nehru’s Forward Policy – establishing forward posts
In November 1961, Nehru formally adopted the "Forward Policy" of setting up military outposts in disputed areas, including 43 outposts north of Zhou's LAC.
While India kept on doting around their forward posts north of McMahon Line- LAC, China moved back and then pincered cutting the supply to forward posts
On 8 September 1962, a Chinese unit attacked an Indian post at Dhola on the Thagla Ridge, three kilometers north of the McMahon Line. On 20 October China launched a major attack across the McMahon Line as well as another attack further north. The Sino-Indian War which followed was a national humiliation for India, with China quickly advancing 90 km (56 mi) from the McMahon Line to Rupa and then Chaku (65 km southeast of Tawang) in NEPA's extreme western portion, and in the NEFA's extreme eastern tip advancing 30 km (19 mi) to Walong.
India gets aid from US, Britain and also Russia
The Soviet Union, United States and Great Britain pledged military aid to India. China then withdrew to the McMahon Line and repatriated the Indian prisoners of war (1963).
Present day
NEFA was renamed Arunachal Pradesh in 1972—Chinese maps refer to the area as South Tibet.
Lessons Learnt?
In recent past Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping offered India a "package settlement" of the border issue. Eight rounds of talks followed, but there was no agreement.
Déjà vu of Zhou Enlai offered to accept the McMahon Line in 1956?
In my opinion a conflict will occur if India tries to repeat Nehru’s Forward Policy.
Location
China and India share a long border, sectioned into three stretches by Nepal, Sikkim (now Indian state of Sikkim) and Bhutan, which follows the Himalayas between Burma and what was then West Pakistan. A number of disputed regions lie along this border. At its western end is the Aksai Chin region, that sits between the Chinese autonomous region of Xinjiang and Tibet (which China declared as an autonomous region in 1965). The eastern border, between Burma and Bhutan, comprises the present Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh (formerly the North East Frontier Agency). Both of these regions were overrun by China in the 1962 conflict.
Aksai Chin vast region of salt flats at roughly 5,000 meters above sea level, and Arunachal Pradesh is extremely mountainous with a number of peaks exceeding 7000 metres.
Military tactics suggest that for an attack, the ratio in numbers should be roughly 3:1 in favour of the attackers – if one wants to capture and then later hold the objective. In mountain warfare this ratio should be considerably higher as the terrain favours defence.
Despite the disadvantage of this, China was able to take advantage of the terrain: the Chinese Army had possession of the highest ridges in the regions. The high altitude and freezing conditions also cause logistical and welfare difficulties; in past similar conflicts (such as the Italian Campaign of World War I) more casualties have been caused by the harsh conditions than enemy action. The Sino-Indian War was no different, with many troops on both sides dying in the freezing cold.
The western portion
The McMahon Line is the red line marking the northern boundary of the disputed area.
Background
The McMahon Line
In short - The McMahon Line is a line agreed to by Britain and Tibet as part of the Simla Accord, a treaty signed in 1914. Although its legal status is disputed, it is the effective boundary between China and India.
Nehru and promotion of the slogan Hindi-Chini Bhai-Bhai
In the 1950s, India-China relations were cordial and the boundary dispute quiet. The Indian government under PM Nehru promoted the slogan Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai. (India and China are brothers). During Pakistani officials meetings held between India and Pakistan, at airport arrivals and on route – the Indian government at times setup processions with people chanting Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai, reason was obvious to show Pakistan that India is at good terms with China to the detriment of Pakistan.
China was willing to accept McMahon line
Zhou Enlai offered to accept the McMahon Line in 1956, but only in the context of border negotiations as equals, because simply accepting the British boundary would leave the stigma of the unequal treaty and hurt Chinese pride. But Nehru maintained his 1950 statement that he would not accept negotiations if China brought the boundary dispute up, hoping that "China would accept the fait accompli (an established/accomplished fact). In 1954, India renamed the disputed area the North East Frontier Agency.
India acknowledged that Tibet was a part of China and gave up its extraterritorial rights in Tibet inherited from the British in a treaty concluded in April 1954. Nehru later claimed that because China did not bring up the border issue at the 1954 conference, the issue was settled. But the only border India had delineated before the conference was the McMahon Line. Several months after the conference, Nehru ordered maps of India published that showed expansive Indian territorial claims as definite boundaries, notably in Aksai Chin. In the NEFA sector, the new maps gave the hill crest as the boundary, although in some places this line is slightly north of the McMahon Line.
The failure of the 1959 Tibetan uprising and the 14th Dalai Lama's arrival in India in March led Indian parliamentarians to censure Nehru for not securing a commitment from China to respect the McMahon Line. Additionally, the Indian press started openly advocating Tibetan independence. Nehru, seeking to quickly assert sovereignty in response, established "as many military posts along the frontier as possible", unannounced and against the advice of his staff. On discovering the posts, and already suspicious from the ruminations of the Indian press, Chinese leaders began to suspect that Nehru had designs on the region. In August 1959, Chinese troops captured an Indian outpost at Longju.
Letter from Jawaharlal Nehru to U Nu, the Prime Minister of Burma, showing that the Chinese leadership had no problem to recognize this demarcation between India and 'China's Tibet' in the 1950's.
Claude Arpi: Zhou was ready to accept the McMahon Line
The conflict
China proposes that each side withdraws 20 km away from Line LAC - McMahon Line
In a letter to Nehru dated 24 October 1959, Zhou Enlai proposed that India and China each withdraw their forces 20 kilometers from the line of actual control. Shortly afterward, Zhou defined this line as "the so-called McMahon Line in the east and the line up to which each side exercises actual control in the west".
(The Line of Actual Control (LAC) is the effective border between India and People's Republic of China (PRC). The LAC is 4,057-km long and traverses three areas of northern Indian states: western (Ladakh, Kashmir), middle (Uttarakhand, Himachal) and eastern (Sikkim, Arunachal). Chinese Prime Minister Zhou Enlai first used the phrase in a letter addressed to Indian Prime Minister Nehru dated 24 October 1959.)
Nehru’s Forward Policy – establishing forward posts
In November 1961, Nehru formally adopted the "Forward Policy" of setting up military outposts in disputed areas, including 43 outposts north of Zhou's LAC.
While India kept on doting around their forward posts north of McMahon Line- LAC, China moved back and then pincered cutting the supply to forward posts
On 8 September 1962, a Chinese unit attacked an Indian post at Dhola on the Thagla Ridge, three kilometers north of the McMahon Line. On 20 October China launched a major attack across the McMahon Line as well as another attack further north. The Sino-Indian War which followed was a national humiliation for India, with China quickly advancing 90 km (56 mi) from the McMahon Line to Rupa and then Chaku (65 km southeast of Tawang) in NEPA's extreme western portion, and in the NEFA's extreme eastern tip advancing 30 km (19 mi) to Walong.
India gets aid from US, Britain and also Russia
The Soviet Union, United States and Great Britain pledged military aid to India. China then withdrew to the McMahon Line and repatriated the Indian prisoners of war (1963).
Present day
NEFA was renamed Arunachal Pradesh in 1972—Chinese maps refer to the area as South Tibet.
Lessons Learnt?
In recent past Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping offered India a "package settlement" of the border issue. Eight rounds of talks followed, but there was no agreement.
Déjà vu of Zhou Enlai offered to accept the McMahon Line in 1956?
In my opinion a conflict will occur if India tries to repeat Nehru’s Forward Policy.
Dont you wish your govt was strong enough to do this instead of the timid lot they are?? Anyway never forget 1962. I remember it cos England won the world cup 4 years later
1962 was the result of war mongering and Akhand Bharat dreaming Nehru's forward policy. To
imagine that the indians wanted to grab Tibet after all the land grabbing of NE & Kashmir
.
The greed really got into Nehru and thus india got the spanking. But today's INDIA have
unfortunately forgotten the lesson's of 62
and the peace loving people of the world
expect china to teach INDIA another lesson.
imagine that the indians wanted to grab Tibet after all the land grabbing of NE & Kashmir
.The greed really got into Nehru and thus india got the spanking. But today's INDIA have
unfortunately forgotten the lesson's of 62
and the peace loving people of the worldexpect china to teach INDIA another lesson.
so you imply that PLA and official military is impotent against india .... and you'll try terrorism?
that is supposed to be pak's strategy (alone) .... and the strategy is paying it back more than it bargained for. people have stopped to bother if terrorist attack hits pakistan.
no sports in pakistan ... economy distressed due to terrorism.
frankly, i feel sorry for pakistan .... guys, you need to do good to yourself.
china is another matter .... please enlighten us, if it has started going the "terrorism" way.
poor chinese ..... are going to become the next pakistan (i.e. it's current state). !!!!!
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