Lasting lesson of 1962: don’t be caught off-guard again

[SamantK]

Congress is defnitely to blame for the rift with China, it was freaking congress which screwed with Sri lanka. He'll you guys forgot about Indra Gandhi she almost made India a dictatorship.. the only way to improve India is to bring in BJP with Modi as the PM for the next 15 years... Also, it does not matter if we were caught off guard or not we lost and because Nehru was a moron and China knew it very well....

 

[ksgokul]

In 1962:

- China had just recently fought the Korean war with the superpower USA.
- China had just been alienated from the USSR, due to the Sino-Soviet split.
- Both the superpowers of the world were our enemies.
- We was just coming out of the worst famine in Chinese history, the Great Leap Forward from 1958-1961.

India saw a China that was collapsing with starvation and famine, and with two formidable enemies (USA and USSR) surrounding us on all sides. China in 1962 was in possibly the worst position we have ever been in.

So India decided to take advantage of our weakness, and they tried to steal our land with the Forward Policy. They struck when we are at our weakest point, after trying to trick us with all their false claims of "bhai bhai"... and they still lost.

Come on friend. You are anlayzing the stuffs from the Military planner'e perspective. India was not at all spending much on its Military. China would have only accumulated the experiences after having all those conflicts and their military preparedness would have been much higher than India. If you call Forward Policy as a stupid move, i would accept it. But if you call it cunning calculated military exercise done by Nehru, i can only laugh at your "Poverty in Knowledge"

 

[peaceful]

Come on friend. You are anlayzing the stuffs from the Military planner'e perspective. India was not at all spending much on its Military. China would have only accumulated the experiences after having all those conflicts and their military preparedness would have been much higher than India. If you call Forward Policy as a stupid move, i would accept it. But if you call it cunning calculated military exercise done by Nehru, i can only laugh at your "Poverty in Knowledge"

1. at the time of that conflict, india received military aids from both US and USSR.
2. at the time of that conflict, most indian generals fought in WWII. are you saying this is not called "experience"?
3. Chinese-Dragon has a valid point. Nehru started this war as he knew that China was having a lot of trouble at that time. Together with the total failure of this war, this makes Nehru a total loser.

 

[sexy gun]

1. at the time of that conflict, india received military aids from both US and USSR.
2. at the time of that conflict, most indian generals fought in WWII. are you saying this is not called "experience"?
3. Chinese-Dragon has a valid point. Nehru started this war as he knew that China was having a lot of trouble at that time. Together with the total failure of this war, this makes Nehru a total loser.

Yeah and Japanese helped you in '62

 

[timetravel]

Chinese backstabbed. They claimed our AP and Akshai Chin after taking over Tibet. They did not claim AP and Akshai chin when they had not run over Tibet but conveniently changed their stand later on. Now this is called back stabbing and another back stabbing is when they attacked India unprovoked. Dont worry Chinese India will never be allowing u to do it again and Chinese can NEVER win against India fair and square. They won a border skirmish that too by accumulating vast resources and troops while saying that we are friends and love peace. So chinese prepared for months before the war whereas did not let India get a hint of it.

As this is not possible now so chinese should forget about this border and concentrate on what they already have if not want to loose that also.

 

[lem34]

Chinese backstabbed. They claimed our AP and Akshai Chin after taking over Tibet. They did not claim AP and Akshai chin when they had not run over Tibet but conveniently changed their stand later on. Now this is called back stabbing and another back stabbing is when they attacked India unprovoked. Dont worry Chinese India will never be allowing u to do it again and Chinese can NEVER win against India fair and square. They won a border skirmish that too by accumulating vast resources and troops while saying that we are friends and love peace. So chinese prepared for months before the war whereas did not let India get a hint of it.

As this is not possible now so chinese should forget about this border and concentrate on what they already have if not want to loose that also.

That's what I call a truly incredible deluded version of history.

 

[timetravel]

That's what I call a truly incredible deluded version of history

why? didnt they claim our Ladakh and AP? did we claim Tibet? so they claim our terrirory and also attack us unprovoked while preparing for months on their own boder and not letting us get a hint and saying to us we are friends all this time.

God can it get more cunning and deceptive and backstabbing then this ever.

 

[lem34]

why? didnt they claim our Ladakh and AP? did we claim Tibet? so they claim our terrirory and also attack us unprovoked while preparing for months on their own boder and not letting us get a hint and saying to us we are friends all this time.

God can it get more cunning and deceptive and backstabbing then this ever.

What about Nehru's forward policy?

 

[timetravel]

What about Nehru's forward policy?

I knew forward policy will come but they claimed our territories soon aften annexing Tibet and that is where all this started. They claimed Akshai Chin and other Indian territories so forward policy was a result of this. Why did they claim Indian territories.

 

[ksgokul]

1. at the time of that conflict, india received military aids from both US and USSR.
2. at the time of that conflict, most indian generals fought in WWII. are you saying this is not called "experience"?
3. Chinese-Dragon has a valid point. Nehru started this war as he knew that China was having a lot of trouble at that time. Together with the total failure of this war, this makes Nehru a total loser.

a) As i can see, India was not spending much on military and that too the army was neglected before 1962. Give me some links to prove that the army at that time had capacity to go for war with any country ( China being the least. ).
b) You might have known that we were under British rule during the second world war and most of the planning would have been done by British people. For example British had a policy of maintaining Independent Tibet as a buffer zone between British India and China and they would not have accepted Chinese annexation of Tibet. You can find these things in the book written by Brigadier Dalvi -"The Himalayan Blunder" . This book shows the difficulties faced by Indian military because of the Indian policy makers at that time.
c) Nehru didn't even realise that he was starting a war. I think even the Chinese leadership acknowledged later that they mis-understood some of the statements made by Nehru (as they had no Military value).

Definitely Nehru might have had the confidence, US would rush to help, in case of a war. But he would have also known, that event would tarnish his image in my country. So there is no way, Nehru would have wanted a war with Chinese.

Together with the total failure of this war, this makes Nehru a total loser.

I accept this. But you can also understand the miscalculations from the Chinese side. They over-estimated the prowess of Indian Military. So it proved a blessing in disguise for Indian Army to get prepared for any future military confrontations. In spite of some madness from Indian side, if Chinese would have resolved the border peacefully, the two countries would not be facing these animosity for the next 100 years. So in the longer term, it would have helped China more.

Gokul.

 

[lem34]

I knew forward policy will come but they claimed our territories soon aften annexing Tibet and that is where all this started. They claimed Akshai Chin and other Indian territories so forward policy was a result of this. Why did they claim Indian territories.

well clearly forward policy was not that effective

 

[Tshering22]

China and India didnt have any problems during each other's 5000 years history,there were many cultural and religious interractions between the two countries and never hostile.but in recently half a century,two countries are at each other's throats.who made that happen?

Please ask Mao Ze Dong. We were good with each other even before PRC officially formed. There was nothing wrong in our 2000 year relationship until Communists destroyed your past, included ours as your own, and started coming into our territory. How can relations be smooth then?

We could have forgotten about Tibet if Mao had not further launched territorial expansion through encroachment in 1961 when we were busy in a war against Portugal. We could have been the strongest of allies in Asia. But because of one expansionist intention of Mao and his followers, see what happened.

Even now this can change. We can forget the past and start anew. Expansionist intention is not going to get you anywhere but only cause harm to you internationally for no reason. All the goodwill we historically shared, so much so that Chinese and Indian soldiers fought should to shoulder during WW2 against Axis, would all go down for nothing.

Tell your leadership that this can change. We both can be the new power axis from Asia if the problems between us is solved. The ball is in your court.

Look, if you trespass your neighbor's property everyday, and then one day he clubs you in the head, are you going to cry "omg, you caught me off guard"? That's what India did in 1962 to China.

East Ladakh is not your property but encroachment that you took in 1959 when we were trying to align with you and stand by your. Any land in Asia is not your property. What you call aksai chin is a part of east Ladakh and under Instrument of Accession from maharaja Hari Singh Nalwa, an integral part of India. Just because nobody lives there doesn't make it yours. Just because you don't live in every corner of your house doesn't mean I could come and encroach on one corner of your room and call it my house.

Here's what your government does:

- Revises history to get your attention misdirected.
- Teaches that so and so parts were once Chinese.
- Indoctrinates Chinese people to believe this.
- Justifies it on the world front.
- Either attacks or subversively encroaches on land.


You're just falling victim to these steps.

 

[Tshering22]

1. at the time of that conflict, india received military aids from both US and USSR.

Wrong. Nehru asked for US supply of aircraft, but the refused.

2. at the time of that conflict, most indian generals fought in WWII. are you saying this is not called "experience"?

Experience has no use if the weapons of that era were used. While the generals in our military advised both Nehru and Kaul to consider weapons purchase like how USSR had offered you before the war, Nehru said he wanted to have no weapons and even considered scrapping the military!! Imagine that!

By the time the tensions drew up, it was too late to buy weapons. Nehru's idiocy cost us this war rather than capability. But it opened up a wide gap to show where we were being naive.

3. Chinese-Dragon has a valid point. Nehru started this war as he knew that China was having a lot of trouble at that time. Together with the total failure of this war, this makes Nehru a total loser.

We had more internal troubles than you as well. We were just beginning to assimilate into statehood with thousands of disagreements, our foreign policy was not there, we had NO weapons other than vintage WW2 weapons that were obsolete compared to automated Soviet weapons you had, we had an a$$h*le of a PM planning to scrap the Army after 1961 Portugal war.

On top of that, PLA started encroaching territory.

 

[Tshering22]

What about Nehru's forward policy?

The policy was a "face saving" attempt by the fool because he was proven to be a complete idiot by the lower level generals. He got into far side of east Ladakh which was being encroached on by PLA and was not their territory. Technically, it wasn't even a FORWARD POLICY in reality. Why:

- Nehru asked deployment in our own territory; a defensive action.
- Nehru refused to acquire more weapons to give the policy a strong backing.


As a result of this disastrous decision, it failed. The irony was that though initially USSR and USA offered to arm us, Nehru refused and only later asked again, which was refused by USA.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

Tibet was not part of China, But India accepted that Tibet is part of China.

This was the biggest blunders of Indian foreign policy.