Lahoris Embarrassing Pakistan Once Again

[El Sidd]

Not according to "me", troll. I am just stating historic facts. Nothing wrong in being classified, rightly or wrongly, as a 'docile race' though. Take out your frustration on the Brits who classified you guys as such, not us. And in a Muhajir vs Sindhi debate, this postulation is irrelevant anyways

Brits are long gone just like the unmarked graves of their martial race soldiers in Burma, Turkey and Northern Africa.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You’ll have to explain why passing the objectives resolution was so wrong? And how it went against Jinnah. Given that Jinnah selected the committee to draft it.

Discussed here:

Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

It would give me immense pleasure if two of us could get involved in a thread where you can pin-point out the deeply specific flaws you find, and I shall address them wherever I can find with a reasonable explanation. It will give me an opportunity to share your great insight and also learn from...

defence.pk

 

[TheSolution]

I really don’t understand why people blame the muhajirs and punjabis for everything.

Muhajirs technically don’t exist anymore anyway, and blaming the punjabis for the problems in their own specific areas seems to be a recurring theme amongst Pakistanis

Every ethnicity hates Panjabis that's why

 

[Ssan]

Discussed here:

Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

It would give me immense pleasure if two of us could get involved in a thread where you can pin-point out the deeply specific flaws you find, and I shall address them wherever I can find with a reasonable explanation. It will give me an opportunity to share your great insight and also learn from...

defence.pk

I won’t reiterate this again over here again - this is before my time but I strongly disagree. Yes, the minorities were not happy with the objectives resolution but it passed with over two thirds majority. Jinnah selected the committee which was comprised of the ulema- in fact, he specifically selected Syed Sulayman Nadwi to come draft it.

The objections to it are merely polemical, in as much, as they interpret part of what Jinnah said in his speeches but ignore when he talked about Islam in Pakistan. Anyways, the objectives resolution does specify a civil secularism of an American type. That is the point.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I won’t reiterate this again over here again - this is before my time but I strongly disagree. Yes, the minorities were not happy with the objectives resolution but it passed with over two thirds majority. Jinnah selected the committee which was comprised of the ulema- in fact, he specifically selected Syed Sulayman Nadwi to come draft it.

The objections to it are merely polemical, in as much, as they interpret part of what Jinnah said in his speeches but ignore when he talked about Islam in Pakistan. Anyways, the objectives resolution does specify a civil secularism of an American type. That is the point.

I don't think you have read the post. It's not about the Non Muslims only. The Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan (all of them) admitted that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

The objections to it are merely polemical, in as much, as they interpret part of what Jinnah said in his speeches but ignore when he talked about Islam in Pakistan. Anyways, the objectives resolution does specify a civil secularism of an American type. That is the point.

What speeches are you referring to ?

The 11th August speech was not made by the Quaid-i-Azam at a press conference nor in any reception given in his honour; but was the official proclamation of the policy of the new State, made in its Constituent Assembly, in the presence of the members who were expected to draw the constitution for the State of Pakistan and to define the fundamental rights of her people.

 

[VCheng]

Anyways, the objectives resolution does specify a civil secularism of an American type.

Can you point out where, exactly, please?

 

[Ssan]

I don't think you have read the post. It's not about the Non Muslims only. The Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan (all of them) admitted that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah.



What speeches are you referring to ?

The 11th August speech was not made by the Quaid-i-Azam at a press conference nor in any reception given in his honour; but was the official proclamation of the policy of the new State, made in its Constituent Assembly, in the presence of the members who were expected to draw the constitution for the State of Pakistan and to define the fundamental rights of her people.

Yes the minorities were against it, sure. As far as the Chief Justice, he was there from 1954-1960 - liberal judge under Ayyub. The reference to the ulema is mentioned in the report authored by the same judge. This is the same judge who penned the doctrine of necessity to dissolve the assemblies.

As far as the ulema go, most of them did not really want Pakistan. It is the few like Syed Sulaymaniyah Nadwi who did, who drafted the resolution and who held that they were doing Jinnahs bidding and in line with his vision.

Also I went back and read the Aug 11 speech, none of it really conflicts with the objectives resolution.

 

[M. Sarmad]

As far as the ulema go, most of them did not really want Pakistan. It is the few like Syed Sulaymaniyah Nadwi who did, who drafted the resolution and who held that they were doing Jinnahs bidding and in line with his vision.

I don't think you have a clue about what is being discussed here

Syed Sulaiman Nadvi migrated to Pakistan in 1950 and here we are talking about the first Constituent Assembly and the Objectives Resolution (drafted in 1949)

Also I went back and read the Aug 11 speech, none of it really conflicts with the objectives resolution.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I find opinions expressed by the then Chief Justice of Pakistan, Pakistani ulema and Pakistani minorities on this issue much more convincing

 

[Ssan]

I don't think you have a clue about what is being discussed here

Syed Sulaiman Nadvi migrated to Pakistan in 1950 and here we are talking about the first Constituent Assembly and the Objectives Resolution (drafted in 1949)

Was Pakistan always destined to become an Islamic republic? – Part 2 | The Express Tribune

Islam's role in the creation of Pakistan cannot be ignored nor that Muslims inhabiting it were largely conservative

tribune.com.pk

Also this,

https://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10154469849671675.pdf

Pg 232

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I find opinions expressed by the then Chief Justice of Pakistan, Pakistani ulema and Pakistani minorities on this issue much more convincing

You are ofc entitled to your opinion. I find the opinions of the rest of the founding fathers as well as the simple facts of history to be much more credible than a judge that dissolved the assemblies and started martial law.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Was Pakistan always destined to become an Islamic republic? – Part 2 | The Express Tribune

Islam's role in the creation of Pakistan cannot be ignored nor that Muslims inhabiting it were largely conservative

tribune.com.pk

Also this,

https://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10154469849671675.pdf

Pg 232

Thank you for posting this. And it says exactly what I had said in my earlier post. Syed Sulaiman Nadvi was invited to Pakistan by the govt. of Governor General Khawaja Nazim-ud-din 2 years after the death of Jinnah (and one year after the passing of the objectives resolution in 1949) to head a newly formed committee p 233

 

[Ssan]

Thank you for posting this. And it says exactly what I had said in my earlier post. Syed Sulaiman Nadvi was invited to Pakistan by the govt. of Governor General Khawaja Nazim-ud-din 2 years after the death of Jinnah (and one year after the passing of the objectives resolution in 1949) to head a newly formed committee p 233

He was tasked to determine what the constitution would be like after the Lahore resolution (mid to early 1940s). He was invited multiple times to head committees while still in India. After partition, too, in 1948 for the draft of objectives resolution. After objectives resolution was passed, he was invited to head the taalimat e Islami to partake in drafting of the constitution. Three separate committees while he was still in India. This is all public info.

This article is disingenuous and biased but it does have this detail. I can’t find a more neutral source with the part of the draft on the objectives resolution.

Why religious intolerance isn’t surprising - Daily Times

As if the situation of religious freedom in Pakistan was any good in the previous years, in early January, the US re-designated Pakistan on the watch list of countries where the states have either tolerated or unleashed outright violations of religious freedom. It has been reported that for the...

dailytimes.com.pk

Relevant part:-

“
This proposal couldn’t make further headway into some tangible constitutional framework until after the creation of Pakistan when in 1948 the government of Pakistan invited Nadwi to come from India and head the Talimat-i-Islamia, a special committee set up to advice the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on its first constitution.


The manuscript that Sandelvi drafted under Nadwi’s tutelage became the primary source of recommendations by Talimat-i-Islamia committee to the Constituent Assembly, which adopted the Objective Resolution 1949 as the preamble to constitution making in the country.”

 

[M. Sarmad]

He was tasked to determine what the constitution would be like after the Lahore resolution (mid to early 1940s). He was invited multiple times to head committees while still in India. After partition, too, in 1948 for the draft of objectives resolution. After objectives resolution was passed, he was invited to head the taalimat e Islami to partake in drafting of the constitution. Three separate committees while he was still in India. This is all public info.

Duh!!

Bhai Jan, tasked by whom? Some Nawab Ismail of UP Muslim League? .. Which Committee? Some Muhallay ki committee?

Here we are talking about Jinnah, Pakistan's first Constituent Assembly and the Objectives Resolution



Here's the timeline :

• Jinnah died in September 1948
• Objectives Resolution was passed in March 1949 ......
• Basic Principles Committee (BPC) was constituted to begin deliberations on the constitution-making process after the passing of the Objectives Resolution
• BPC decided to establish "the Board of Talimaat-i-Islamia" and Sayyid Sulaiman Nadavi was invited to head it ... Nadvi was not a part of any government of Pakistan committee before that. Nor had he been tasked by the government to draft any resolutions
• Sulaiman Nadvi came to Pakistan in 1950 and started working on Islamization of Pakistan. The rest is history

 

[Maula Jatt]

Duh!!

Bhai Jan, tasked by whom? Some Nawab Ismail of UP Muslim League? .. Which Committee? Some Muhallay ki committee?

Here we are talking about Jinnah, Pakistan's first Constituent Assembly and the Objectives Resolution



Here's the timeline :

• Objectives Resolution was passed in March 1949 ......
• Basic Principles Committee (BPC) was constituted to begin deliberations on the constitution-making process ...
• BPC decided to establish "the Board of Talimaat-i-Islamia" and Sayyid Sulaiman Nadavi was invited to head it ...
• Sulaiman Nadvi came to Pakistan in 1950 and started working on Islamization of Pakistan. The rest is history

There's a pattern here

Mullahs oppose Pakistan
After all the bloodbath come in the 50s
Become influential in state policy - islamize it, suppress culture, languages, history in name of Islam

 

[Ssan]

Duh!!

Bhai Jan, tasked by whom? Some Nawab Ismail of UP Muslim League? .. Which Committee? Some Muhallay ki committee?

Here we are talking about Jinnah, Pakistan's first Constituent Assembly and the Objectives Resolution



Here's the timeline :

• Jinnah died in September 1948
• Objectives Resolution was passed in March 1949 ......
• Basic Principles Committee (BPC) was constituted to begin deliberations on the constitution-making process after the passing of the Objectives Resolution
• BPC decided to establish "the Board of Talimaat-i-Islamia" and Sayyid Sulaiman Nadavi was invited to head it ... Nadvi was not a part of any government of Pakistan committee before that. Nor had he been tasked by the government for drafting any resolutions
• Sulaiman Nadvi came to Pakistan in 1950 and started working on Islamization of Pakistan. The rest is history

Oh Bhai, now you are gaslighting.

Here is the proper timeline.

1) mid to early 1940s:- After Lahore resolution (1940) he was tasked by ML to figure out what an Islamic state would look like. Evidence in the book above of 232.

2) 1948: after partition, he is is invited again to help draft objectives resolution in early 1948. He is asked to lead the recommendations to the objectives committee. This is before Jinnah died. Source in my previous post.

3) after Jinnah dies, 2 year after, 1950, he is asked to come lead taleemat islami to draft the constitution.

Three separate times input was sought and public committees set up under ML to figure out what an Islamic state would look like. Two of them while Jinnah was alive.

There's a pattern here

Mullahs oppose Pakistan
After all the bloodbath come in the 50s
Become influential in state policy - islamize it, suppress culture, languages, history in name of Islam

Oh Bhai, since after the Lahore resolution in 1940, the ML sought the advice of ulema who supported Pakistan, who believed in some form of democracy to figure out the contours of the state they were fighting for. Read the source.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Oh Bhai, now you are gaslighting.

Here is the proper timeline.

1) mid to early 1940s:- After Lahore resolution (1940) he was tasked by ML to figure out what an Islamic state would look like. Evidence in the book above of 232.

2) 1948: after partition, he is is invited again to help draft objectives resolution in early 1948. He is asked to lead the recommendations to the objectives committee. This is before Jinnah died. Source in my previous post.

3) after Jinnah dies, 2 year after, 1950, he is asked to come lead taleemat islami to draft the constitution.

Three separate times input was sought and public committees set up under ML to figure out what an Islamic state would look like. Two of them while Jinnah was alive.


Oh Bhai, since after the Lahore resolution in 1940, the ML sought the advice of ulema who supported Pakistan, who believed in some form of democracy to figure out the contours of the state they were fighting for. Read the source.

Substandard blogs are no source, my friend..

The idiot you are quoting now is absolutely clueless about the timeline

He doesn't even know that the Talimat e Islamia board was established by BPC which itself was created after the passing of the Objectives Resolution.

The idiot you are quoting thinks that Objectives Resolution was drafted in early 1948 (during Jinnah's lifetime!!) on the recommendation of Talimat e Islami Board

And based on the fkd up timeline provided by the clueless idiot, you have concluded that Sulaiman Nadvi came to Pakistan twice (to head the same committee)

Google use ker Le Bhai, aur thori c common sense bhi