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Lahore 'attackers identified'

I dont think anyone can convince a nation of 172 million people, 97% of them Muslims, that "Islamists" are the bad guys. I dont appreciate Zionist and Indian media using the word "Islamists" thats an insult to over 1 billion Muslims living all over the world. Islam is here to stay and it will certainly stay in Pakistan forever.

As for this entire Lahore incident, there needs to be more investigation. Is it a coincidence that this incident occurs around the same time when Nawaz Sharif and his lawyers are planning to take part in the long march? The suspects who are arrested have lots of explaining to do.
 
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So you are suggesting that in Kashmir some of the bad guys are your guys who have been turned into our guys and are now being made to kill our guys just to make your guys look like the bad guys whereas your bad guys haven't really been killing a lot of our guys?!!

Boss, as my above statement proves... the thing with 'whodunit' theories are that there are an infinitely frustrating number of permutations & combinations. So give it a rest until the 'investigation' is over.

I'm not claiming anything. HRW are the ones claiming India runs these Jihadi groups. The kill civilians, never Indian soldiers. They are extra judicial.

The groups mentioned in that article may or not be involved. The investigations haven't started yet.

The point is that even if they are, it is known that Jihadis can be recruited and work for the Indian Army.

That's why the identity of these people is not important. It's the hand that guides them.
 
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An article published in Todays News





Terror war comes to Lahore



Reality check

Friday, March 06, 2009
Shafqat Mahmood

They are destroying everything that made life normal. A game of cricket with a visiting foreign team, gave a message of well being. This made cricket an enemy. The resolve of the Sri Lankans to help Pakistan project an image of peace was heroic. This made them a target.

It is about time we understood that the real enemy is within. It may be comforting to blame outsiders; and nothing can be ruled out in the murky world of spy wars. But, this cannot be an excuse to deny that we have a problem.

This is not of American origin or Indian design. America began the rot by bankrolling a surrogate army to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. India raised the temperature by letting lose a reign of terror in Kashmir. But, we nurtured and nourished these non state actors as an adjunct to our normal security apparatus.

What we did not consider was the cost to the country or the blow back that this will create. The power of the gun is a heady brew. Those using it become accustomed to attention and to intimidation to get their way. They were not going to melt away just because a certain politician or General said that time has come for them to go back to their shops or ploughshares. Even expecting anything like this was fool hardiness.

Myths were also created to place these organizations in the mainstream of our national narrative. These are good people who will never fight the Pakistani state, we were told. Their enemy is only India and their theatre of operation the Indian occupied state of Jammu and Kashmir. Also, that they are within our control and will do as they are told.

Time has shown these beliefs to be total fabrications. They have never shied from committing acts of terror within the country. From the bombing of French engineers in Karachi to sectarian wars in Punjab and now the attack on the Sri Lankan team, the footprints of these organizations are everywhere.

They have reached a level of strength where they have become completely autonomous. There has been serious speculation for some time that the attack on the Indian parliament was carried out by Jaish-e-Mohammad. Pakistani intelligence operatives had no clue about it.

The Mumbai attack is now recognised to be a Lashkar-e-Taiba event. The government has half accepted this and more is to come. Again, despite some reckless accusations by Indian politicians, Pakistan intelligence agencies had no advance information of it. Even later, it was only the investigation and reportedly confessional statements by some of the accused that lay bare the details of the plan. The legendary Pakistani agencies were clueless.

Not being aware of operations by organizations that traditionally worked closely with them is not good for the intelligence agencies. While it creates plausible deniability, it also shows how autonomous these jihadi outfits have become. Spy games are not about mounting operations. Those are rare.

Good intelligence is all about information. When available, it can help prevent the bad and encourage the good. No information means being completely out of the loop and having little ability to influence events. This is paralysis and a nightmare for the agency concerned. Ultimately, it reflects a weakness of the state. That seems to be happening in this case.

There are reports on Wednesday evening, as I write this, that about five of the accused involved in Sri Lankan firing have been arrested. If these are the real people, it is possible that we may find out their true motive. But, without knowing much, I can predict that these attacks on the bus of the Sri Lankan cricket team had a fair amount to do with the arrest of LeT members and their expected trial in the near future.

Horrendous as this tragic attack is in which so many policemen have lost their lives and some Sri Lankan players injured, this should be seen as test of our resolve. If we buckle under and start making appeasing noises, the terrorists would have succeeded. This is a time to keep the pressure on and show that acts of terror will not deter us from trying criminals who use our territory to wage war outside.

We should also stop legitimising them by placing their acts in a context of anti-Americanism. This is what some people are doing when analysing events in FATA and Swat. The assumption is that if somehow the Americans would disappear from Afghanistan, all would be well.

This is balderdash. American presence in Afghanistan has indeed created a sanctuary for some Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda in the tribal areas but extremist elements in other parts of the country have an agenda of their own. Pamphlets have begun to appear in Lahore markets and other places essentially targeting women. They should be modestly dressed and not shop alone etc. More is likely to come.

The seeds of extremism have been sown in all parts of the country. It is now almost a cliché to blame the madressah system for the spread of extremism but like most clichés it has a great deal of truth in it. Particularly in southern Punjab, the impact of the madressahs largely funded by Saudi money is huge.

These alternatives of education and nourishment are sucking in thousands among the poor. They otherwise would have no option but to depend on the state school system, which is in an abysmal state. It also does not provide meals. Mundane as this may sound it is not something to be scoffed at. Unless the state is able to compete with these alternatives, the battle for the hearts and minds of the poor is lost.

To create the possibility of winning, the state will first have to acknowledge internal terrorism as a serious problem. Despite much mouthing of right words, there is no evidence that a comprehensive holistic plan has been made to fight extremism. This involves, besides better policing, a combination of better services and a much better access to health and education for the poor.

In other words, investing serious money into the fight against extremism is essential. It would involve modernising the police force, creating greater capacity among prosecutors and court systems, and, investing in services for the poor. It is this three-pronged strategy that will possibly turn the situation around. This hand wringing and mouthing of pious slogans by the leadership would not get us anywhere.

While hopefully someone will pay attention to this, let us pause and say a silent prayer for Pakistani cricket. For many of us, it was not a sport but a passion. A cricket match would be more than a sporting contest. It was a gladiatorial fight and a social event rolled into one. Now for years to come, no one will come here. Another element of our way of life has come to an end.

This is not the passing of a torch from one generation to the other. This is a paradigm shift. We are not leaving a better world behind.



Email: shafqatmd@gmail.com



Terror war comes to Lahore
 
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Foreign hand not ruled out in Lahore attack: Rehman Malik

Updated at: 1831 PST, Friday, March 06, 2009

LAHORE: Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said Friday he could not rule out foreign involvement in the Sri Lankan cricket attack.

Six Pakistani police and two civilians were killed on Tuesday when gunmen ambushed the team en route to a Test match in Lahore. Seven Sri Lankan cricketers and a coach were among 19 people wounded.

"I cannot rule out (involvement of a) foreign hand in the incident," Rehman Malik told reporters in Lahore.

He was asked if Sri Lanka's Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) could be linked to the attacks.

"We have not found any leads suggesting the involvement of any religious elements," Malik said. But he refused to divulge information about how the probe was progressing.

Foreign hand not ruled out in Lahore attack: Rehman Malik - GEO.tv
 
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I'm not claiming anything. HRW are the ones claiming India runs these Jihadi groups. The kill civilians, never Indian soldiers. They are extra judicial.

The groups mentioned in that article may or not be involved. The investigations haven't started yet.

The point is that even if they are, it is known that Jihadis can be recruited and work for the Indian Army.

That's why the identity of these people is not important. It's the hand that guides them.

you fight fire with fire. I wouldnt call these groups as Jehadis coz they have nothing to do with Islam. They do not force Islamic views on the general public, and are known to drink and do some other 'haram' things. You have the Knights and you have the disposable Pawns (so called renegade militants trained by whoever!) in this political upmanship. People have a choice, take ur pick as to what u want to be.

I hope the authorities in pakistan catch the Lahore culprits, parade them with blackened face on donkeys and punish them in a manner they would deserve! They are ordinary murderers and petty criminals! Dont give them the so called honor of 'religious warrior'
 
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Forget it Bull, you're taking too long.

I'll just give you the names of the Jihadi groups in Kashmir that are known Indian counter insurgency outfits.

Ikhwaan-ul-Musalmoon. Sounds very Jihadi, doesn't it?

Who are they? Founded by Kukka Parrey, now high ranking BJP official in the Indian government, this group of Jihadis carries out the work of the Indian Army.

The "Taliban" outfit in Kashmir. Who are they? Yes, an Indian government sponsored outfit in Kashmir that executes civilians at the beckoning of the Indian government.

Are more required?


Kukka Parrey died five years ago. Gives an idea abt the factual accuracy of the post.

BJP :) an absolute USP.
 
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Like I mentioned in a different thread. One of my friend's driver was taken at gunpoint by one of the escaping attackers. They live near the stadium. He was released 45 minutes later after driving him to safety. According to the the driver, whom I've known since I was in Nursery.... said the gunman was a very young man and had a pathaan accent (could have been Balochi or Pushtu).

Could there be a foreign hand?.... maybe. We Pakistanis really need to get out of denial mode.

For all the people complaining about the security and Police.... There was a big "security lapse". Has nothing to do with our Police not being able to fight back. They had incoming fire from all four directions. They were sitting ducks. Any other place..... the Governor would have resigned for such a lapse in security. Within 24 hours.... the politicians started focusing on the "Long March".

Time to get our house in order and take care of the "Frankenstein" we have on our hands.
 
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Like I mentioned in a different thread. One of my friend's driver was taken at gunpoint by one of the escaping attackers. They live near the stadium. He was released 45 minutes later after driving him to safety. According to the the driver, whom I've known since I was in Nursery.... said the gunman was a very young man and had a pathaan accent (could have been Balochi or Pushtu).

Dont point the finger on any ethnic group. We've been living side by side with Pashtuns and Baloch for a long long time even before independence of Pakistan in 1947, we never had a problem with them.

There were way more problems and way more crime in our eastern provinces before 2001.
 
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Kukka Parrey died five years ago. Gives an idea abt the factual accuracy of the post.

BJP :) an absolute USP.

You're saying Ikhwaan Musalmoon is not an Indian Army outfit?

"Other laws, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, the Disturbed Areas Act and the Public Safety Act - copied nearly verbatim from British colonial legislation - are in effect in Jammu & Kashmir and the northeast; they give wide-ranging powers to Indian military personnel while providing immunity from prosecution for human-rights violations. These laws have produced patterns of human-rights abuses in Kashmir and the northeast similar to those found in "dirty wars", when an army treats a civilian population as the enemy. Many of these abuses have been carried out by pro-India militants (variously known as "renegades" or Ikwanis (from Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen / Special Operations Group) - essentially counterinsurgency death squads trained for the purpose."
A death sentence in India | open Democracy News Analysis

Who are these pro India "Muslim" militants?

If you need more links, I can give you Amnesty to show the Indian government supports these Jihadi outfits?
 
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Dont point the finger on any ethnic group. We've been living side by side with Pashtuns and Baloch for a long long time even before independence of Pakistan in 1947, we never had a problem with them.

There were way more problems and way more crime in our eastern provinces before 2001.

Who's pointing a finger?? I'm just relaying a fact. I know someone who was taken hostage by one of the gunman and he had a pathaan accent.
The "Frankstein" I'm referring to is the Jihadi groups that have gotten out control.

And one more thing according to other eye witnesses... some of the gunmen were speaking Punjabi. So there you have it.... more finger pointing.
 
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Either in 26/11 attacks in Mumbai or the 3/3 Lahore attacks, Pakistanis have been in denial mode all along and some continue to be so. People should come out of denial mode and see what is happening from within instead of putting blame on others.
 
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Who's pointing a finger?? I'm just relaying a fact. I know someone who was taken hostage by one of the gunman and he had a pathaan accent.
The "Frankstein" I'm referring to is the Jihadi groups that have gotten out control.

And one more thing according to other eye witnesses... some of the gunmen were speaking Punjabi. So there you have it.... more finger pointing.

Anyone can make up a Pathan accent.

Also Punjabi is also spoken in India and hardly anyone from the younger generation of Lahore speak Punjabi anymore.
 
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Anyone can make up a Pathan accent.

Also Punjabi is also spoken in India and hardly anyone of the younger generation of Lahore speak Punjabi anymore.

All I can say is WOW!!! Have you ever been to the inner city?? Does the younger generation not speak Punjabi there as well? (just making a point about Punjabi. Not pointing fingers). Lahore isn't the only place where Punjabi is spoken.
I can't argue with you. I give up.
 
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You're saying Ikhwaan Musalmoon is not an Indian Army outfit?

"Other laws, such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, the Disturbed Areas Act and the Public Safety Act - copied nearly verbatim from British colonial legislation - are in effect in Jammu & Kashmir and the northeast; they give wide-ranging powers to Indian military personnel while providing immunity from prosecution for human-rights violations. These laws have produced patterns of human-rights abuses in Kashmir and the northeast similar to those found in "dirty wars", when an army treats a civilian population as the enemy. Many of these abuses have been carried out by pro-India militants (variously known as "renegades" or Ikwanis (from Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen / Special Operations Group) - essentially counterinsurgency death squads trained for the purpose."
A death sentence in India | open Democracy News Analysis

Who are these pro India "Muslim" militants?

If you need more links, I can give you Amnesty to show the Indian government supports these Jihadi outfits?

I'm saying Kuka paray daied five years ago and currently he's not a high ranking BJP official :)

Ikhwan is a kashmiri lashkar formed by the kashmiris with the help of indian security forces to fight the outsider terrorists. in case you don't know, ikhwanis are kashmiris.

Its not a jihadi organisation, its like ur tribal lashkar, formed to fight the jihadis.
 
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All I can say is WOW!!! Have you ever been to the inner city?? Does the younger generation not speak Punjabi there as well? (just making a point about Punjabi. Not pointing fingers). Lahore isn't the only place where Punjabi is spoken.
I can't argue with you. I give up.

Have you forgotten Sarabjit Singh and Kashmir Singh, two Indian Punjabi spys, who speak fluent Punjabi, and were caught in Pakistan?

Speaking Punjabi doesn't only pertain to Pakistanis, Indian Punjabis are more fond of Punjabi language than Pakistani Punjabis, who prefer Urdu.
 
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