Kuwait to sign for 28 Eurofighter Typhoons

[monitor]

Industry sources have said the deal, which could be worth up to €8 billion (US $8.7 billion), could see the Kuwaitis become the first export

Aren't they are too much money for 28 jet? Even with weapons training infrastructuur 300 million seems too big.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Aren't they are too much money for 28 jet? Even with weapons training infrastructuur 300 million seems too big.

not really...if you factor in weapons, pliot training, servicing and maintainance training, a service life of parts

 

[SQ8]

i mentioned it in my posts before but after the post you quoted, at the time 2003-2006 the usa was careful not to annoy pakistan as it was the height of the afghanistan war. but then you ended up going for block 52+ in 2005 which that deal went through quiet easily. they had the option to buy 36 but then money problems due to the 2005 earthquake meant you had to go for 18 instead but had options for 18 more.

Yes they did, but the F-16 brings something much bigger with it that you did not factor in:
Previously well established infrastructure and a less perceived threat to the balance. The new F-16s did not require much new training for the logistics guys and the large number of spares we were able to accumulate keeps them flying even in sanctions.

The EF or any other jet would be a greater expense in terms of training and logistics changes needed to accommodate it; hence the delay.

Between the Rafale and the EF, the PAF loved the EF as an air combat machine, but the Rafale was liked better as an overall machine.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yes they did, but the F-16 brings something much bigger with it that you did not factor in:
Previously well established infrastructure and a less perceived threat to the balance. The new F-16s did not require much new training for the logistics guys and the large number of spares we were able to accumulate keeps them flying even in sanctions.

The EF or any other jet would be a greater expense in terms of training and logistics changes needed to accommodate it; hence the delay.

Between the Rafale and the EF, the PAF loved the EF as an air combat machine, but the Rafale was liked better as an overall machine.

well it does make sense financially and logistically to but more f16's. and if pakistan pruchased them i dont see theyshould have been a problem in regards to sanctions. but your f16's were in service since the 80's and during sanctions turkey did have your back.

well funny enough thats why france splice from the european project. france wanted the jet to have better air to surface capability whilst the rest were intrested in air superiority hence why france made their own jet. so the rafale is not only cheaper than the typhoon but has better air to surface capability as well. in terms of raw perfromance the typhoon is better. yes there is the problem of buying it were they are several countries that need to approve the sale since it built in those countries. in all it depends on how deep is your wallet and how good is your relationship with europe. the typhoon consortium is looking for orders and with 28 to be signed for tommorow (31st jan) from kuwait is a bit of relief. your coas has visited here (the uk) and your acm has sat in the cockpit of the typhoon last year. this close relationship regardless of it being public or not. i know your not getting the typhoon. the typhoon consortium has enhanced the typhoon even further. and ptiching it to clients as a complement to 5th gen fighters.

 

[SQ8]

well it does make sense financially and logistically to but more f16's. and if pakistan pruchased them i dont see theyshould have been a problem in regards to sanctions. but your f16's were in service since the 80's and during sanctions turkey did have your back.

well funny enough thats why france splice from the european project. france wanted the jet to have better air to surface capability whilst the rest were intrested in air superiority hence why france made their own jet. so the rafale is not only cheaper than the typhoon but has better air to surface capability as well. in terms of raw perfromance the typhoon is better. yes there is the problem of buying it were they are several countries that need to approve the sale since it built in those countries. in all it depends on how deep is your wallet and how good is your relationship with europe. the typhoon consortium is looking for orders and with 28 to be signed for tommorow (31st jan) from kuwait is a bit of relief. your coas has visited here (the uk) and your acm has sat in the cockpit of the typhoon last year. this close relationship regardless of it being public or not. i know your not getting the typhoon. the typhoon consortium has enhanced the typhoon even further. and ptiching it to clients as a complement to 5th gen fighters.

Turkey wasnt the only one having our back as such. There were the Arabian countries that have the F-16, but most importantly is was Israeli Businessmen who were willing to sell us the most difficult of spare parts with tacit approval of the Israeli government.

As for the expense part, I will reiterate that even today the PAF has a basic "brochure" offer on record from the EF for a tranche -3 package that costs it less than an equivalent Rafale offer.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Turkey wasnt the only one having our back as such. There were the Arabian countries that have the F-16, but most importantly is was Israeli Businessmen who were willing to sell us the most difficult of spare parts with tacit approval of the Israeli government.

As for the expense part, I will reiterate that even today the PAF has a basic "brochure" offer on record from the EF for a tranche -3 package that costs it less than an equivalent Rafale offer.

turkey is a good example as they built the f16's licenced so they had more to offer i'd presume.
i know israel sold you guys some parts and some fancies(hud's), and some of which came from the uk. but i did not know about a businessman can you tell me more......

as for pakistan's proposal they were offered the tranche 2. this was because at the time the tranche-3a was not ready. bae and our partners are focusing on slashing the price of the typhoon. i spoke to an engineer who builds them at warton and he told me that about £85 million is the target price for a tranche 3a the 3b or the enhanced typhoon is ready in terms of design and development and prep production model's for client evaluations. and thats it. hopefully we will be going for 48 of these, and retire some of our older tranche 1's. the price tag for the 3b is north of £100+ million

the french love to milk money from anyone. look at india, perfect example. the deal has gone too long to cancel and their reluctance on investing 50%. if you do a quick deal like qatar and eygpt, the deal sails through.

even you guys had problems with the french. how many years did it take for pakistan to get the aip's for your 90b subs?

 

[SQ8]

turkey is a good example as they built the f16's licenced so they had more to offer i'd presume.
i know israel sold you guys some parts and some fancies(hud's), and some of which came from the uk. but i did not know about a businessman can you tell me more......

as for pakistan's proposal they were offered the tranche 2. this was because at the time the tranche-3a was not ready. bae and our partners are focusing on slashing the price of the typhoon. i spoke to an engineer who builds them at warton and he told me that about £85 million is the target price for a tranche 3a the 3b or the enhanced typhoon is ready in terms of design and development and prep production model's for client evaluations. and thats it. hopefully we will be going for 48 of these, and retire some of our older tranche 1's. the price tag for the 3b is north of £100+ million

the french love to milk money from anyone. look at india, perfect example. the deal has gone too long to cancel and their reluctance on investing 50%. if you do a quick deal like qatar and eygpt, the deal sails through.

even you guys had problems with the french. how many years did it take for pakistan to get the aip's for your 90b subs?

The less said the better about the Israeli connections but this was prior to the Indians reaching out to them in the later 90's.

The issue with the EF may not always be price as these can be financed and with multiple nations involved, multiple financing avenues are available. But it is these very multi-national issues that leave the EF also a doubtful contender.

However, currently (and even in 2001) Pakistan does not need a air superiority or air defence fighter as the JF-17s and F-16 MLU's can do that pretty well. We need a deep strike asset that can complement and supplement the few F-16 Block-52's we have.

Basically, the need is for a deep penetrating aircraft that can fight its way through the eastern fronts ADGE, bomb the smithereens out of a target at least 600 km inside India and then fight its way out with minimal losses.
For that the Rafale had some chance and so does the EF, but the focus is now on a 5th gen aircraft that can do that.

As long as we can blow the A-50Ehl fleet at Agra, that is good enough for Pakistan.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The less said the better about the Israeli connections but this was prior to the Indians reaching out to them in the later 90's.

The issue with the EF may not always be price as these can be financed and with multiple nations involved, multiple financing avenues are available. But it is these very multi-national issues that leave the EF also a doubtful contender.

However, currently (and even in 2001) Pakistan does not need a air superiority or air defence fighter as the JF-17s and F-16 MLU's can do that pretty well. We need a deep strike asset that can complement and supplement the few F-16 Block-52's we have.

Basically, the need is for a deep penetrating aircraft that can fight its way through the eastern fronts ADGE, bomb the smithereens out of a target at least 600 km inside India and then fight its way out with minimal losses.
For that the Rafale had some chance and so does the EF, but the focus is now on a 5th gen aircraft that can do that.

As long as we can blow the A-50Ehl fleet at Agra, that is good enough for Pakistan.

according to horus, your looking at 60 j31's..... i thought the tfx would be good as its western which is somthing pakistan has a taste for getting and its turkish too so you can buy with no strings and it would be easy to buy. but i think the recent agreement with bae systems would mean our government has a say in who gets to buy them also an end user agreement needs to be in place for the ej200 engines too. but thats if turkey is looking to export it. i would imagine they wont have a problem selling it to pakistan. and co development agreement would help.
also you can get your hands on gan based radar tech which is a huge bonus. i really think pakistan should go turkish. the anka b is a good option although i heard from a birdy in pakistan your working on a ucav with help from denel which may be based on the bateleur, and they have been very help-full to pakistan in regards to the raad alcm. the t129 with european mtr 390 engines or chinese engines or go for the cheaper wz-19. the altay is a good tank but it's too big and looking at some of it sub systems would be a good idea instead of a new tank. ship's im not to sure as china has some good design avaliable but i cant find any good litoral ship from them although the current f22p is in the same parameters os a typical lcs. so the f100 may be a good option.

 

[Tshering22]

AF is a great tool tough if you want to pulverise an incoming Iranian army .

The probability of Pakistan going to war with Iran are one in a million. They are not friendly enough but they are not hostile either. It is more like a neutral zone. Ceremonial goodwill and that's that.

Besides, what Iran lacks in air power, it makes up with missile forces.

 

[untitled]

The probability of Pakistan going to war with Iran are one in a million. They are not friendly enough but they are not hostile either. It is more like a neutral zone. Ceremonial goodwill and that's that.

Besides, what Iran lacks in air power, it makes up with missile forces.

He probably meant the threat Kuwait faces from Iran

 

[Tshering22]

He probably meant the threat Kuwait faces from Iran

The last time it faced a threat, US and France had to come up and their own F18s failed. For Iranian military forces, if push comes to shove, Kuwait will be a 4-5 hour job.

 

[untitled]

The last time it faced a threat, US and France had to come up and their own F18s failed....

Sir... They did not have f18s then but A4 Skyhawks. The A4s fled to Saudi Arabia and were part of the bombing campaign. The F18s were delivered after the war.