Koran and Islam in the Supreme court of america/library of congress

[asaad-ul-islam]

Erm, no its not. It has some of the "wisdom of the ages" so to speak, which is basically common sense found in most religious texts, but I daresay that a modern book on humanism carries far more wisdom than that.

Like all religious texts, it carries a mix of common-sense and superstition.

erm, yes it is. it has whatever we need to live a fulfilling life and if you feel differently, you can do us all a great favour by avoiding any unnecessary comments. especially ones that are bound to cause discord on this thread.

another thing, please stop parading yourself as an intellectual (pseudo) like some other atheistic indians on this forum, like LogicNote. I'm seeing the same baseless arguments on humanism and "universal values".

 

[DarkStar]

Erm, no its not. It has some of the "wisdom of the ages" so to speak, which is basically common sense found in most religious texts, but I daresay that a modern book on humanism carries far more wisdom than that.

Like all religious texts, it carries a mix of common-sense and superstition.

Well, lets say we respectfully agree to disagree on that one.

 

[jeypore]

Islam was revealed as a testament, criterion and a way of life, from the advent of the propeht of Islam, till the last day. the Qur'aan is not going to be "out-dated", it will always be with the times, as it is the spoken Word of God. And God is All knowing, All powerful.

Same argument can be made of Tora/Old testament, Since it is an alternative version of Koran. Which is right is a question of faith hence two different religion.

 

[DarkStar]

I understand that. But as muslims, we believe that God sent messengers and revelations to all nations, throughout history.

We believe that It jsut so happens to be that the latest and final revelation was given to the prophet of Arabia. Sort of like, the prophet of the "kalyug".

We believe that the messages that preceded the Qur'aan were either distorted, lost, or their true meanings forgotten, hence the need for the "Final" revelation as opposed to cotinue sticking to the old/older testament/s.

Others are obviously at liberty to disagree, and we respect that.

 

[dabong1]

How can the context be racist, when I was blaming you, not them. As the child of a "white" parent who reverted to islam, I would take offense to being called racist against white people, if it wasn't so laughable..

The way the term "whiteman" is used is what i have a problem with........it reminds of the nation of islam and then blaming everything on the "whiteman".

Pathaans are white so are chechens,bosnians,kashmiris ect.........do they fall under the banner of "whiteman"

Christians worship the trinity. They are mushrik. The Quran says, do not marry mushriks. Yet we still marry them. REason being, it is an exception given by God. Our marrying them, doesn't justify their idol worship, nor does it alter their status as rejectors (as in kafir) of Islam...

What about the unitarian church's....they dont worship the trinity
What about the jews.....they dont worship idols.
Is a mushrik the same as a kaffir..?

Well, you should be glad there's at least someone out there on the look out for you.

 

[Always Neutral]

Islam was revealed as a testament, criterion and a way of life, from the advent of the propeht of Islam, till the last day. the Qur'aan is not going to be "out-dated", it will always be with the times, as it is the spoken Word of God. And God is All knowing, All powerful.

How do you know the Quraan is the spoken Word of God ? Did Mr. God tell you that personally ?

How can any religious book not be out dated in some aspects as man and science advance.

While by an large all Religious Books largely preach good sense, love, charity etc its modern day science which fills up the gaps where religious books have left loopholes.

Regards

 

[dr.umer]

How do you know the Quraan is the spoken Word of God ? Did Mr. God tell you that personally ?

How can any religious book not be out dated in some aspects as man and science advance.

While by an large all Religious Books largely preach good sense, love, charity etc its modern day science which fills up the gaps where religious books have left loopholes.

Regards

To prove that the Qur’an is the Word of Allah, you do not have to indulge into futile discussions or philosophical dialect. You have at your disposal a “living material evidence,” the Qur’an itself. Starting with the null hypothesis, i.e., assuming that the Qur’an is not the word of God, one should ask himself: could a human being in the seventh century write such a book? Or does there exist—up till today—any book that is claimed to match the Qur’an?

Let us examine the Qur’an more closely. Starting with the content, could the knowledge therein have been within the reach of any human source, i.e., the Prophet Muhammad, his contemporaries, or the whole human civilization and for several centuries ahead? How could a book revealed at that point of history refer —in precise terms—to scientific phenomena and historical events—prior and subsequent—that were unknown or misunderstood before their subsequent verification?

These Qur’anic references cover such wide spectrum of topics as the nature of space, relativity of time, the shape and motion of the earth, the role of mountains, water for life, the water cycle, the sources of rivers and groundwater, sea depths, embryology, hygiene and proper health practices, prophecies fulfilled (after revelation), etc.

As to the form of the Qur’an—i.e., linguistic and literary features—any strict comparative analysis identifies the Qur’an to be not only superior to any other text—preceding or following, including the sayings of the Prophet himself, who received and delivered the revelation—but also to be a perfect, flawless and the most eloquent composition. This perfection can be witnessed and proved on the levels of the individual words (semantics), sentence (grammar and rhetoric), and whole surahs (chapters).

Thorough examination of the Qur’an shows that each of these elements was selected and phrased in the most appropriate manner to fulfill the most precise meaning and most effective impact, whether cognitive, psychological, passionate, or phonic, on the reader or listener. The Qur’an challenges mankind, Arabs and non-Arabs, to the end of time, to produce anything like or compared to itself. And so it is proved.

Over the millennia, philosophers’ attempts to agree, through abstract arguments alone, on the existence of God, His attributes, and the way He interacts with His creatures, have all been futile. The human mind can only observe, measure, compare, correlate, and hence theorize, within the limited capacities created in Man, and no more.

Our senses have limits. For example, we can see only those bodies emanating light in the wavelength range of 0.4 to 0.7 microns, and can hear only those sounds in the frequency range of 2500 to 4000 cycle per second. In time and space our perception is limited by the velocity of light, since the visible universe is so wide as to be measured in billions of light years. This means that what we will ever see—however advanced our technology is—are only images from the far-deep past. Also, what we can see is essentially no more than an extremely minute fraction of the real existence.

We can know Allah as the Creator and Sustainer of this universe through His detectable creation. The harmonious “intelligent” physical systems in our bodies and other biological species (plant or animal), in matter in general (viewed at the sub-atomic or cosmic levels) boldly manifest the purposeful design, endless diversity, and sustainable precise running of all these systems. Allah only is the One God Who can consistently create and sustain such a marvelous, harmonious universe like this. Praise be to Him!

Abstract philosophical thinking alone could never and can never conclusively prove or disprove the presence and attributes of God. Proving the existence of God is and should always be beyond the reach of human philosophy. Philosophy cannot—in itself—produce or create knowledge, but only through concrete observations together with sensible percepts can it offer any sound conclusion. ( Nabil Haroun )

Regards,

 

[Always Neutral]

To prove that the Qur’an is the Word of Allah, you do not have to indulge into futile discussions or philosophical dialect. You have at your disposal a “living material evidence,” the Qur’an itself. Starting with the null hypothesis, i.e., assuming that the Qur’an is not the word of God, one should ask himself: could a human being in the seventh century write such a book? Or does there exist—up till today—any book that is claimed to match the Qur’an?

Regards,

I have nothing against any book being the word of his or her Gods but modern times and science have changed our understandings and will continue to do so.

For Eg. I read somewhere that the prophet married a 13 year old girl. In those times it may be an accepted practise and probably okay but now science and hence law says that any sex with a girl below 16 is rape.

There have been lot of wise man in olden ages but to say God came and got his messenger to write his message for me personally is incomprehensible.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

To prove that the Qur’an is the Word of Allah, you do not have to indulge into futile discussions or philosophical dialect. You have at your disposal a “living material evidence,” the Qur’an itself. Starting with the null hypothesis, i.e., assuming that the Qur’an is not the word of God, one should ask himself: could a human being in the seventh century write such a book? Or does there exist—up till today—any book that is claimed to match the Qur’an?


Regards,

Anyway its not whether the Quran is the work of God but whether it gets demeaned by being kept in the Supreme Court building.

Regards

 

[dr.umer]

For Eg. I read somewhere that the prophet married a 13 year old girl. In those times it may be an accepted practise and probably okay but now science and hence law says that any sex with a girl below 16 is rape.

Firstly, the girl you mentioned was Aisha (RA). Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to Prophet and no Muslim or even "non-muslim" objected to the marriage because marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries this practice continues.

Secondly, no science tells us that sex with a girl below or equal to 16 is rape, it's the law. I wonder how you explain alarmingly increasing problem of teen pregnancies in UK and many of them are below 16 years of age as well. They do "sex" and get pregnant, so if I take your words, they are proving "science" wrong.

There have been lot of wise man in olden ages but to say God came and got his messenger to write his message for me personally is incomprehensible

Yes, that's what Muslims believe as well that God didn't come down to earth.

Let's get back to the topic now.

Regards,

 

[bellicose.mcbein]

there was a great controversy recently about an alabama judge who was removed from the bench for refusing to take down a copy of the ten commandments from his courtroom. judge roy moore lost a lawsuit against the aclu. he wrote a poem after losing. my mom, diehard catholic, emailed it to me one day:

America the beautiful,
or so you used to be.
Land of the Pilgrims' pride;
I'm glad they'll never see.

Babies piled in dumpsters,
Abortion on demand,
Oh, sweet land of liberty;
your house is on the sand.

Our children wander aimlessly
poisoned by cocaine
choosing to indulge their lusts,
when God has said abstain

From sea to shining sea,
our Nation turns away
From the teaching of God's love
and a need to always pray

We've kept God in our
temples,how callous we have grown.
When earth is but His footstool,
and Heaven is His throne.

We've voted in a government
that's ******* at the core,
Appointing Godless Judges;
who throw reason out the door,


Too soft to place a killer
in a well deserved tomb,
But brave enough to kill a baby
before he leaves the womb.

You think that God's not
angry,that our land's a moral slum?
How much longer will He wait
before His judgment comes?

How are we to face our God,
from Whom we cannot hide?
What then is left for us to do,
but stem this evil tide?

If we who are His children,
will humbly turn and pray;
Seek His holy face
and mend our evil way:

Then God will hear from Heaven;
and forgive us of our sins,
He'll heal our sickly land
and those who live within.

But, America the Beautiful,
If you don't - then you will see,
A sad but Holy God
withdraw His hand from Thee.

~~Judge Roy Moore~~

 

[bellicose.mcbein]

i would just as soon there be no ten commandments, bible, quran, or anything else in the courtroom except the amicus briefs. god bless the aclu!