Kiyani Demands US Limit Drone Attacks and Operations

[53fd]

Not a single foreign policy can be initiated by the government without the nod of the Army.

There are many other domestic issues in governance/government besides foreign policy my friend. Foreign policy is a fish in a pond if you look at the overall picture. And are you implying that the Army is involved in all domestic issues of Pakistan as well? And secondly, there are many foreign policy related matters that do not need the nod of the Army, such as drone strikes, such as non-military related foreign relations with other countries (trade, infrastructure development, investments).

 

[53fd]

That is precisely the army's great PR speaking. Yes, I admire the PR exercise of the army in Pakistan. Irrespective of how corrupt a civilian government is, Army's job is defence and not to run the country.

He was the President of Pakistan as well as the COAS at the time. He was answering the student as the President of Pakistan. He even gave up his position as the COAS later on in his tenure.

 

[ramu]

Western media is called a joke even by people in the west. But without going into that, it doesn't have to be western media. Can be media from any country. You have to first prove your claims. i.e. have to provide evidence, in the form of physical evidence. You can't say that media OF ANY COUNTRY or ANY PART OF THE WORLD says X, hence X must be true. Try doing that at UN. Your case will only make it as far as the door.

SMC, in one of the debates, we had before I got banned a dozen times, you have con-seeded that ISI uses terrorism to get its job done. Forget media, you have said the same things in as many words. Pakistan supporting Taliban in the 90s is just a small blip in front of what you yourself have admitted.

 

[ramu]

You forget, he was the President of Pakistan as well as the COAS at the time. He was answering the student as the President of Pakistan .

No I did not. Please view the whole video and listen to what this young gentleman says. His soul is pure and I respect this person.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

US-Pakistan relations facing biggest crisis since 9/11, officials say

Bitter disputes over covert CIA activities and drone attacks inside Pakistan, lack of progress over peace talks in Afghanistan, and rising Islamist-led opposition to the presence of foreign forces in the region are fuelling the biggest crisis in US-Pakistan relations since the 9/11 attacks, Pakistani politicians, army sources and intelligence officers say.

Pakistan is seen by Washington and London as a vital ally in the "war on terror", while the Pakistani government and army say they remain committed partners 10 years after the Afghan conflict began.

But harsh US criticism of Islamabad's counter-terrorism campaigns in Pakistan's western tribal areas, repeated in a White House report last week, and "blowback" from the US military surge in Afghanistan are testing the relationship to breaking point, officials warn.

"We will not accept the stigmatising of Pakistan," said Salman Bashir, Pakistan's foreign secretary. "We need to re-examine the fundamentals of our relationship with the United States to get greater clarity. There has been a pause. Now we must start again."

Rehman Malik, Pakistan's interior minister, said the Americans should stop blaming others for their difficulties in Afghanistan, where violence has worsened in the past year and reconciliation efforts have made little progress. "If the strategy is not right, all the stakeholders have to share responsibility," Malik said.

Pakistan had suffered "unimaginably" since the "war on terror" began, he added. "We are not just fighting for Pakistan, we are fighting for the whole world. If this country is destabilised, the whole region is destabilised … so please, stop the blame game. We are your partners. We are victims, not part of the terrorists."

The rift comes at a dangerous moment for the US and its Nato allies as the Afghan conflict enters the "endgame" and they begin the process of handing over control of security to Afghan forces – and start withdrawing troops in July.

US criticism of Pakistan centres on ongoing suspicions that its powerful spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), continues to support Taliban and other militant groups active in Afghanistan and Kashmir, partly in a bid to retain influence over a post-withdrawal government in Kabul. Last week members of a US congressional committee accused Pakistan of playing a double game, while the White House described its counter-terrorism efforts in tribal areas as disappointing.

Pakistani anger focuses in turn on three main areas: unauthorised CIA activity inside the country, Pakistan's perception that the US is keeping it "out of the loop" on Afghanistan, particularly in respect of mooted peace talks with the Taliban, and what Islamabad sees as the US failure to appreciate the full cost and impact of the "war on terror" on Pakistan's economy and social cohesion.

"The main problem we face is the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan. This is the main problem for the whole region," an intelligence official said. "The 'war on terror' fuels extremism in Pakistan's society."

Unmanned drone missile attacks launched by the CIA at targets inside the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan have inflamed anti-US feeling in Pakistan, making it increasingly difficult to justify the continuing "war on terror" alliance, a senior security official said.

"In the long term, it [the drone attacks] is completely counter-productive because it alienates the population and restricts our ability to shape our security environment," the official said.

Pakistan's army had conducted several campaigns to suppress Taliban groups and al-Qaida operatives and sympathisers in Pakistan since 2001, including in South Waziristan and Bajaur as well as in Swat, north of Islamabad, the official said. But the army was resisting US pressure to launch another offensive in north Waziristan. "What do they [the US] want us to do? Declare war on our whole country?" the official asked.

"The Americans need to devise a strategy but better still, share the [drone] technology with us," interior minister Rehman Malik said. "There is big anti-American feeling. We would like to urge that the drone attacks be stopped."

Tensions over CIA activities peaked earlier this year when Pakistan arrested a CIA contractor, Raymond Davis, after a shooting incident. Davis was publicly named, held in detention for 47 days and interrogated, before eventually being released after payment of $2.3m in compensation. The affair followed the withdrawal last December of the CIA station chief in Pakistan after his name was published in local media – an unprecedented security breach.

Whether by coincidence or design, a drone attack last month, launched the day after Davis was released, killed dozens of people in north Waziristan and sparked widespread outrage. The Pakistani army chief, General Ashfak Kayani, called the attack a "violation of human rights" and said the dead were tribal leaders, not terrorists. The prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, called the attack "irrational".

Pakistan has since moved to expel hundreds of US personnel, many of whom are believed to work for the CIA or US special operations, by not renewing their visas.

In a tacit acknowledgement of how serious the rift has become, the US invited General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, head of the ISI, for talks in Washington this week. Pasha is understood to have met Leon Panetta, the CIA director, and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff. There have been no further drone attacks since the Waziristan strike.

Salman Bashir, Pakistan's foreign secretary, said Pakistan was deeply concerned about the apparent lack of progress in reconciliation efforts in Afghanistan. Bashir said Pakistan welcomed some of the steps taken so far, such as the establishment of the Afghan High Peace Council and attempts to reintegrate Taliban foot soldiers.

But he said the peace process could not be left to the Afghan government alone. He questioned how serious the US was about direct talks with the Taliban leadership – and whether such a process was even feasible – while complaining that Pakistan was being kept in the dark about US intentions.

"It's between the Americans and the [Afghan] opposition. But we don't know who the opposition is. To start with it was al-Qaida and the Taliban. Now it's al-Qaida affiliates and other groups. So who do you talk to? Is it Mullah Omar? Are there preconditions or end conditions? We need to sort this out," Bashir said.

There was a lack of "strategic coherence" about the US approach in Afghanistan and a growing sense of urgency as the July deadline for the beginning of US troop withdrawals neared, he added.

Bashir is expected to hold fence-mending talks in Washington later this month. Depending on the outcome, Pakistan's president, Asif Ali Zardari, may make his first official visit to Washington in May.

The senior security official said Pakistan could only help the Americans in Afghanistan if it knew what their strategy was. "Share it with us. What is your plan? Do you plan to stay for five years, for 20?"

But the official warned that the new US military offensive in Afghanistan masterminded by General David Petraeus, and the accompanying rise in casualties, were making it more difficult to achieve a peace settlement.

"The whole idea that a big military surge would induce the other side to ask for reconciliation is flawed. It goes against the whole history of Afghanistan."

US-Pakistan relations facing biggest crisis since 9/11, officials say | World news | The Guardian

 

[53fd]

No I did not. Please view the whole video and listen to what this young gentleman says. His soul is pure and I respect this person.

This is what you just said my friend:

Irrespective of how corrupt a civilian government is, Army's job is defence and not to run the country.

And I was just showing you that he was not involved in the domestic issues of Pakistan, or running Pakistan as the COAS of Pakistan; but as the President of Pakistan. Get that?

 

[ramu]

This is what you just said my friend:

And I was just showing you that he was not involved in the domestic issues of Pakistan, or running Pakistan as the COAS of Pakistan; but as the President of Pakistan. Get that?

Clearly, Musharraf was the Army General when he went through the motions of taking control. Then he fiddled witht he constitution and was supreme. That does not take away what I was saying. Army should be put to its place and asked to do its job. Defend the country. Period. Running the day to day affairs of the nation after rewriting the constitution will not make it legitimate.

 

[clmeta]

All this is public posturing. Pakistan army is pretty in the loop as far as drones are concerned. After all these drones eliminated baitullah and hakeemullah.

 

[Aslan]

All this is public posturing.

And I guess COAS personally called you to tell you that.

 

[ramu]

And I guess COAS personally called you to tell you that.

Maybe not but he sure must have called Mrs. Clinton before he decided to go public. Don't you think ?

 

[Omar1984]

This is not the thread title I created. U.S. Drone attacks should never happen in Pakistan. Whoever allows U.S. (or any other country) to attack Pakistan even once, then that man is a traitor and should not be given respect by the Pakistani people.

For God's sake Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq. Pakistan is a nuclear power and a nation with the 6th largest population and the 5th largest army in the world. We have a developed Air Force, a developed Navy, a developed Army. Then why a foreign country is attacking Pakistan and Pakistani generals and government officials are scared to stop it completely.

 

[Bratva]

What is a disgrace to Pakistan's soverignty is the existance of terrorists, Taliban jihadists and al Qaida, within N. parts and elsewhere within Paksitan. These thugs and murderers are the enemy of all Pakistanis and the incommon enemy of Pakistan, Afghanistan and NATO.

First clean up your mess in Afghanistan and then advice us what is right for us or not. The Pakistan Army is not illiterate that they can not fly drones, while not showing no trust on Us, then don't expect same level of trust and cooperation from us either

 

[Bratva]

Credible evidence in a public forum is difficult to provide to people who want to view everything with shades of what they think is right. But if you want evidence admissible in the court of law, it is a different thing and cannot be provided on this forum. I have read enough articles American, European and South Asian that agree on some fundamental turn of events in the early and mid 90s that relate to Afghanistan and Pakistan's influence to the same turn of events. If this is not resourceful enough to make a legitimate conclusion that Pakistan support of Taliban is a given, I am lost for words.

If everyone argues in a way you do where you dismiss the sources such as Daily Times as conspiracy when it does not suit you, I believe we cannot have any healthy exchange.

Ramu Sahab, Trying to play smart here? And Forgetting one thing? Lt. Col. Shrikant Prasad Purohi of Millitary Intelligece?

Can we Imply, Indian Army covertly using these kind of tactics to blame Pakistan for most terrorist attacks in India? as we have seen, The Samjhota Express, Initally blamed on Pakistan, The Malegao attack, Makkah Masjid Attack, blammed on SIMI or Let, and in turn blaming Pakistan

 

[VCheng]

This is not the thread title I created. U.S. Drone attacks should never happen in Pakistan. Whoever allows U.S. (or any other country) to attack Pakistan even once, then that man is a traitor and should not be given respect by the Pakistani people.

For God's sake Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq. Pakistan is a nuclear power and a nation with the 6th largest population and the 5th largest army in the world. We have a developed Air Force, a developed Navy, a developed Army. Then why a foreign country is attacking Pakistan and Pakistani generals and government officials are scared to stop it completely.

....Because they cannot.

A few nuclear weapons targeted against India with no second strike capability, an Airforce with critical hardware controlled by the US, an Army with philosophies fifty years old, and a Navy with a few paddleboats. Add to that an illiterate population, a sickly economy, and a corrupt government, and anybody can see what is going to happen.

 

[Bratva]

“In the long run, America will not have the stomach to bear the burden of staying in Afghanistan,” the officer continued, still seeming to ignore the presence of the American intelligence chief. “And when the Americans pull out, India will reign. Therefore, the Pakistanis will have to sustain the contacts with the opposition to the Afghanistan government meaning the Taliban so when the Americans pull out, it’s a friendly government to Pakistan. “Therefore,” the officer concluded with a flourish, “we must support the Taliban”, two-star general announced in the meeting in the presence of US spymaster.link

The First ever Usa drone strike, killed a tribal leader Nayk Mohammad, who had just signed a peace treaty with Pak Armt in 2005, why USA sabotaged the peace efforts of Pak Army?

The Us Drone strike killed 80 students in Bajaur Religious School, terming them as terrorists. Why USA fuelled extremism?

US Drone Later killed 10 Frontier Corps Personnel, no reason were given.

US Army abandon their check post on Afghanistan side, at the height of Pak Army operation in South Waziristan, Any Explanation?

Waziristan Operation (Rah-e-Nejad) Week One (Page 54)



Don't t try to be a devil advocate here, and portray Pak Army Villian, when you negotiate with afghan taliban, then it's for Reconciliation purposes, but when we try to communicate with Taliban, we are Bad People?