King Abdullah arrives in Islamabad today

[sigatoka]

1. He's a friend of Israel, buddies with Sharon.

2. He has done nothing but to instigate war within the middle east, signing a pact that means any land stolen by israel will mean that the inhabitants will be killed and not have a chance to flee to neighbouring country.

3. You're nothing but a war mongering pakistani nationalist. It's a shame that too many pakistanis are immoral arab a** sniffers.

4. Simple, Islam is the truth for us. you can concoct whatever religion suits you, cow worshipping, caste system, whatever. Secular leaders are so filled with their own vices, that they project them unto those who strip themselves of ego completely.

1. Thats untrue

2. What do you want? Saudi to send troops to Palestine and get crushed by Israel? Secondly Saudi can't give away something the Palestinians dont have, they dont have the land as it is. Also everyone cares about the plight of the Palestinians, getting emotional about it and blaming Saudi is not going to change anything.

3. Can not a person be relgious and nationalistic? Maybe you forget that the Prophet was an arab.

4. No one is saying Islam is false, dont try to justify your flawed arguments by claiming we are unislamic. Being intolerant towards Hindus is something that both you and Raptor engage in. Similarily religion should be used to increase tolerance and understanding.

 

[sigatoka]

1. Pakistani Elites have always been secular and visionaries, religious nonsense has nothing to do with the business of the State.

2. Before the CIA collected these bearded idiots from all over the world in Pakistan to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.....

3. Pakistan was a Modern Secular state like Turkey. So thanks to Zia..all that went to shyt and these fundos ended up bombing fashion shows, NightClubs,Hotels and covering up women in black bee hive suits.
Congratulations!!

1. Really?

2. Their sacrifices with life and limb is maybe the reason that Pak. isnt an ex-soviet state? Just because a person wears a beard doesnt make his sacrifice for justice any less? or does it?

3. Pak. was and has been since independance (and 100 years before that even) a very poor, undeveloped (unmodern) state. Turkey's prosperity is very unevenly distributed, go out from Istanbul and Ankara and you see lots of poor people. Muslim states such as Malaysia, Saudi, UAE have achieved much better than Turkey in terms of development (and Turkey had a huge head start)

Banning headscarves doesnt automatically make a nation wealthy (any more than it makes it poor).

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Please read this before you read the above post.

Must be some computer problems that this has been missed out when saving:

Simple, Islam is the truth for us. you can concoct whatever religion suits you, cow worshipping, caste system, whatever. Secular leaders are so filled with their own vices, that they project them unto those who strip themselves of ego completely.

How is this relevant to the discussion?

How is my "religion", cow worshipping, caste system anything to do with the subject?

Do you know what is my "religion" that you assume it to be something that excites your banal instincts wherein you go tangentially on a path to ridicule?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sigatoka,

I am not a Hindu, but all the same, thank you.

I am glad that there are saner people around to keep the issues even keel.

I regret that this person forced me to write that post.

Let's leave religion out is my request unless a poster feels it pertinent and if so, explains why so.

 

[sigatoka]

1. Firstly, may I request you not to bring the level of the discussion to that of the sewer, even if that be your forte and your signature.

2. Before you wear your religion on your sleeve and strut around as the sole Flag bearer of Islam, may I inform you that you are quite 'Islam illiterate' i.e. you do not know your religion and hence hardly qualified to comment on any other religion!

3. Islam is the truth for you (even though you have shown your lack of knowledge of Islam and set yourself up for ridicule). Fair enough. Are you suggesting that in international relations, it is also to be accepted as the truth and thus sacrosant? Pray, why should non Islamic people also accept it as the truth and hence believe that what is being said will not be flouted?

4. It is not for me to hold Raptor's brief, but the language used is appaling low class. I am no fan of Queen Noor, but to use such language describing her, is most disgraceful and no gentleman would use such language. And Brutus was a noble man!

1. I second that.

2. True

3. Truth lies as much in the messanger as it does in the message. With people like you propagating Islam, not only will you fail but you will turn neutral people against the faith as well.

4. I am not much of a fan of the Jordanian monarchy (or its hypocritical imported women). However forgetting she is a queen, an ordinary woman on a street deserves more respect than being called a whore.

 

[sigatoka]

Sigatoka,

I am not a Hindu, but all the same, thank you.

I am glad that there are saner people around to keep the issues even keel.

If Religion can not be used to advance justice and truth, it is better to be without faith because not only is society being ruined but dishonour is being brought upon the great prophets of the past.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Well said.

 

[sparten]

A nuclear Iran will be dangerous for pakistan. We will have three nuclear powers on our borders.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What I might state may be mere kiteflying.

Given the proclamation coming out of Iran, it appears that she is keen to cock the snoot at the US and make things difficult with the US.

Therefore, there is a good possibility that she would fish in troubled waters in Balochistan so as to make it difficult for the US to ever establish the TAP oil pipeline that is so material to the US economy, which is no longer what it was.
It maybe remembered that the Balochi ethnicity transcends into Iran and encompasses a very large area if taken as a single ethnic group.

Therefore, Pakistan may have to tread carefully on the nuclear question. of Iran.

Morally speaking, if others can have the nukes, one cannot deny the aspirations of Iran.

Geostrategically, it is another question.

 

[Averroes]

Cow worshipping. Are you aware of the philosophy why they "worship" the cow?

- it’s infantile idol worshipping, however you justify it. whatever philosophy you try to concoct, it's some sick joke spread by ignorant people of the area who established rule through their racist caste system.

Do you suggest that I should ridicule you because the Prophet ordered the drinking of Camel Urine? Should I ridicule Islam for this? If I did, it would pnly expose me to your level of total illiteracy and lack of knowledge. It is because you are brainwashed to believe that Oriental medicine is hocus pocus, you display your abject ignorance. So I presume, by your level of intelligence, you would also ridicule CEE or horse urine being used!

You are quoting sahih bukhari a book which is known for its inaccurate and fictional accounts. By the same book I can quote you an account where a stone runs away with Prophet Moses' clothes. does that give credence to inanimate stone statues which dictate your mode of life? you're simply nitpicking hadith to validate what, that hinduism has some remote value in its reverence of animal waste?

Likewise in India, though it is not a religion diktat in Hindusim, but cow urine is used in ayurvedic practices. Does it mean that it is something hocus pocus?

It shows the level of ignorance which permeates the society. instead of respecting animals as creations of G-d, they deify them and waste their entire lives on such imbecilic practices.

Do understand Oriental medicines and practices are what the westerners are slowly turning to. Heard of Yoga?

Chinese herbal medicine has been recommended by Islamic scholars in the past, and Yoga has served as an excellent business opportunity in the west. Every truth descends from one source which is G-d, no doubt about that, but nowhere else does it meet other than Islam.

Are you suggesting that in international relations, it is also to be accepted as the truth and thus sacrosant? Pray, why should non Islamic people also accept it as the truth and hence believe that what is being said will not be flouted?

Simple to show that the world's fear of Iran is a man made ganesh statue. It's got no meaning or truth, except to deceive the world. The evidence is right there, they've been open all along, they don't have the means to produce, and they simply do not want to produce it.

This also show your total lack of depth in so far as understanding international relationship, international law or diplomacy.

What purpose do they serve? other than justifying greed? wars are fought over land, for wealth. Iran is given the right by international law to produce civilian nuclear energy. Diplomacy is simply a means to get what you want, It was through diplomacy that arab states were created by the imperial powers. It can be used for the prosperity, however as shown by you war mongerers it is not. Where was diplomacy during the Iraq invasion? You use it and throw it out to the wind when it fits you.

Given the proclamation coming out of Iran, it appears that she is keen to cock the snoot at the US and make things difficult with the US.[/qoute]

What proclamation? After the US had established a military base in Afghanistan, occupied all of Iraq, with strategic deterrent saudi arabia for Iran? USA has one goal, and that is to demolish Iran and go after China.

Tune into american media, and you'll see who's the one rooting for war.

Fair enough. Are you suggesting that in international relations, it is also to be accepted as the truth and thus sacrosant? Pray, why should non Islamic people also accept it as the truth and hence believe that what is being said will not be flouted?

Diplomacy requires you to understand the view point of your partner, if you fail to realise where they are coming from, then you won't get anywhere.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You are one of those bigoted persons who cannot see beyond his nose.

So, you state that Bukhari is junk. I wonder how many people of your faith will agree with you. If it is junk, then why is it not been junked?

How about the same hadith narrated on the authority of Ibn al Sabbah being stated by Shahih Muslim Book 16, No 4131 (Also see 4130 and 4132). That too is bogus?

Now, if two Islamic men of importance who have narrated the Hadith which to you are "fictional and incomplete", and you as a person who claims to be of the Islamic faith, state so, then how come that a non Moslem will believe Islamic law being applied to international law as sacrosant?

I believe that the Wahhabis and fundamentalists believe that these Hadiths are of human creation and have no authority. Maybe you follow the Wahhabi line.


Though what is written below may prove interesting:

sura 7:157:

Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the Law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper. (Yusuf Ali translation)

Indeed, if you believe in the Wahhabi line, which to many, is steeped in intolerance towards everyone, including fellow faith followers, it is futile to engage in debate with you.