Killing India’s hidden ‘Cold Start’ strategy

[deckingraj]

That is the problem with respect takes a long time to build takes one post to loose.

Are you not being to harsh genral malaymishra

If you look at the series of post from Santro then actually, no...It is not just one post....In one post he said IA has recruited prostitutes!!!!

There is a saying additional powers comes with additional responsibility...May be he is having a bad day but if seniors behave like this then what moral ground we have to ban trolls????

 

[Xeric]

Oww, c'mon Santro! Not this from you! I have great respect for you. Dont do this.


Not exactly. The Sundarji doctrine, which was followed by IA in 2002 stand off, concerned ever ready 3 big strike corps! However, the element of surprise was lost when it took more than 3 months to amass troops at the border.

CSD OTOH, concerns about 8 smaller strike corps - infantry, mechanized divisions, CAS et al! The idea is to strike anywhere along the entire India's western border, with either all the 8 corps or a few corps. Grab some land and STOP! The political leaders will do the rest.

In such a scenario, Pakistan will lose some territory and that territory will be used by India as a bargaining chip in subsequent negotiations. This loss of strategic advantage in diplomacy is what unnerves many in Pakistan.

You seriously need a crash course on CSD!

 

[deckingraj]

No Im a recent convert.. your countrymen were the ones to "baptize" me into the world of trolls.

Then convert back to what you were...There are enough trolls on both sides. So if we all start using your reasoning then what will be left to talk about???

Ignore the trolls don't join them!!!

 

[deckingraj]

You seriously need a crash course on CSD!

please help us a bit here or point to some post where you have penned your definition of CSD...See there is always a scope of confusion because it is not official doctorine(atleast claimed to be)

 

[Xeric]

please help us a bit here or point to some post where you have penned your definition of CSD...See there is always a scope of confusion because it is not official doctorine(atleast claimed to be)

Deck, you are doing a poor job if you want me to speak out.

And BTW, the 'official doctrine' is very much clear, the only problem is that certain minds just fail to understand the basic concept. And oh, BTW, there's a hell lot a difference between a Combat Group and a Corps!

 

[Xeric]

You are right. But this kind of attack would be initiated only and only if Pakistan dares another military misadventure, like Kargil. India has never been the first to declare or initiate an open conflict with Pakistan.
The attack would entail multiple strikes along the border, in places Pakistan would least expect. The idea is to grab territory, any territory. With 8 strike crops, India can launch attacks anywhere along the IB. India can use all the corps at one time or it can use only a few depending on the element of surprise. Pakistani forces with their limited resources will not be able to counter all the strikes, let along initiate major thrusts in Indian territory. That is one of the reasons why Pakistani authorities are unnerved. Your military intelligence will be busy, but so will ours!

Looks like Superman comics to me. This look guud on paper. Anywaz, there are certain factualy and basic mistakes in your unfolding of CSD and as i said you better re-read the doctrine before it get funnier.

The 2002 stand off was a result of LeT attack on Indian Parliament. GoI then, lost temper and wanted to teach Pakistan a lesson. But the problem was who and where to attack? Not the GoP!

LeT, oh no not again.

You better have attacked Pakistan, atleast this could have saved Mumbai.

Think about it. LeT a fringe militant group with few infrastructure was not going to be a viable target. And if Indian forces did attack Pakistan, that would have led to a major war antagonizing even the moderates in Pakistan, a scenario which India clearly didnt want! So you tell me, where was India to attack? What targets?
That whole Op Parakram was a mess! It was a wise decision NOT to attack Pakistan then.

The idea now is to let Pakistani authorities handle LeT, which it helped create and sustain in the first place, so that they do not use your territory to stage another attack in India.

Sour grapes?

See, my belief over india biting over its own word is getting firmer post by post!

 

[Xeric]

Its hard now, imagine 10 years from now.

Should we start counting from today or another 10 years back from now?

We are hearing this since the man learned to read!

 

[Contrarian]

That is the problem with respect takes a long time to build takes one post to loose.

Are you not being too harsh genral malaymishra

I agree, but the way i read it, his post was unprovoked.

 

[silent hawk]

show me a single credible newspaper reporting this?

and then go to google and type Pakistani Army se*

you will see how bitter the truth can get for you..

The point here was that abusing anyone in the uniform is considered breaking the rules of the forum. Now when Think tanks themselves are jumping in to do that, what is left to say

we would never have deviated if you had explained your point properly

 

[Xeric]

Sir we are talking about CSD here...There was never an official confirmation of it. The only official statement on it is denial of such a policy. Since this has been used as an excuse in the past(as said by you) it is going to be difficult to use it further. This is pure diplomacy and not hypocrisy...

Official confirmation? What are you talking about? May you want that the PM or COAS of yours should have come up and told the world about the nitty gritties of CSD?

Exercising the stuff, the media making money over it and then the game carries on till two front and limited war and you still want the world to get the CSD vetted from your high ups?

Poor!

As far as toning down a bit is then i would request you to not believe in sensational media. Every time a two front war or limited offensive has been talked about it is in reference to defense of the nation during an all out attack on us or a terror strike. So nothing wrong in them as such....

Ah.. such innocence.

These things would have looked guud and credible had you proven Pakistani involvement. Till the time the 'case is under investigation/pending court decision', this all was superfluous.

However, still if your leaders felt itchy they could have done other things like maintaining the breakage in diplomatic relations etc. But going out and howling to bite two countries and shouting out absurd and illogical concepts like Limited War is not called hunting terrorists but aggression.

Man if that's the indian way of showing concerns over a certain issue, i wonder how would you guys keep clam during policy making?

Pressure would be if you see a change in ground. Toning it down mean you are being sensitive about other. As said before there was never an official acknoledgement of such a doctorine, so what we did diplomatically make sense, no????

Your COAS had already reached a point of no return when he gave the two statements (the 2FW and Ltd War). This leaves no room for an 'official endorsement'. So now "what you did 'diplomatically'" surely doesnt make any sense as it was more of something back firing than just changing sides.

Actually i believe the timing was perfect. The way US banned assets of LET, HUD etc just beofre president visit. It is called efforts to sweeten up the process for big tickets items....

These were banned way back and has nothing to do with the current visit.

What matter now is you negating the birth of your baby namely CSD around Obama's visit, thereby accepting the American jobs are more on your mind than the respect of your policy makers and military planners.

Sir let us be honest here. No matter what India do Pakistan's paranoia will not change. Please understand we are happy with the status quo and you are not. So unless and until we are not provoked(by the likes of mumbai) we have no reasons to attack or bully Pakistan....All we are doing is preparing ourself as per the new realities which is there is no chance for a full-fledge war b/w India and Pakistan. kargil is a big proof for that.....we are just working to ensure we have the capacity and capability to punish Pak if political establishment want's to. We are working for that goal. Are we going to suceed or not, only time will tell....However if one goes by the acquisitions that we have over the time and what we are going to have in coming decade, there is ample evidence that we are moving towards that goal....

Sure the 'paranoia' will not change till there are hawks on your side who would keep coming up with CSDs, 2FWs and LWs. Sure our 'paranoia' would just increase in intensity till the time you people will keep faking up terrorist incursions along the LoC/IB and attacks on your soil.

You need to work on these instead of building up the military (the regional power dream), threatening two neighboring countries and becoming an instrument/reason behind total destruction (the CSD).

 

[gubbi]

You seriously need a crash course on CSD!

Looks like Superman comics to me. This look guud on paper. Anywaz, there are certain factualy and basic mistakes in your unfolding of CSD and as i said you better re-read the doctrine before it get funnier.

Instead of issuing such blank statements, why dont you enlighten us what your interpretation of CSD is, where I am wrong?

The fact that you are having to resort to issuing such blanket statements without discussing the topic in a civil manner tells that there is something in those posts that makes you uneasy! That means I am right about CSD and you know it! If not, you would have made a post clarifying the mistakes.

LeT, oh no not again.
You better have attacked Pakistan, atleast this could have saved Mumbai.

Sour grapes?
See, my belief over india biting over its own word is getting firmer post by post!

Another one of your blanket statements. Critical thinking is not your forte. Its quite clear that you dont make orders. I dont blame you. You are in the level of hierarchy where you just follow orders and pass them down to your subordinates. You are trained to follow orders not make them. Such statements from you reinforce that pov.

If you taxed your critical thinking ability even a wee bit, you would have realized that there is truth to what I posted. Your having to resort to what you believe to be "below the belt attacks", says you have a very limited understanding of the concept and its role in the larger scheme of things.

@ Santro: dont blame us Indians for some of your unwelcome posts. There are many of your compatriots who indulge in mud-slinging and religious BS. But you always find most of the Indian members either ignoring such posts or clarifying them with witty comments. You dont have to stoop to that level.

 

[Xeric]

Nah. It doesn't matter to India, one way or other, whether you accept or refuse US demands of going into N.Waziristan.

^^ How would india carry on with fake terrorist infiltrations and attacks over its soil if we go in N Waziristan and destroy the terror network (as we did during Op RR and RN)?

Man you need CSD to blame us and monkey around with surgical strikes

 

[karan.1970]

we would never have deviated if you had explained your point properly

My point was exactly this only from my 1st post. How does a defence site profess to respect all soldiers when it allows young girls who are stepping up to defend their country in uniform to be called as prostitutes. Just because they belong to the enemy nation, they deserve no respect...??

 

[prototype]

Are you trying to be funny? What impact does India has on Pak's economy other than raising its own defense budget and forcing Pak to spend more on weapons? You sound like some Wana be RAW agent who THINKS he has all the INSIDE information and knows everything.

Im glad you did not GET INTO THE "INNER" DETAILS. I would have died laughing. Thanks for sparing my life.

May i know how much u r spending for ur defense budget from ur total budget,i think almost 20 %,and almost 4 % of ur GDP,at this desparate times when ur economy is struggling bad,and as far as i think Pakistan had a Indian centric military,so do u really think Indian military posture have no impact on ur economy,i mean ur budget is huge according to ur standards and can b effectively utilized somewhere else

@ Everyone who thinks cold start is working. YES it is! it has bring the already close friends China and Pak even closer. You guys now have 2 enemies thanks to your over confidence. The very next day for the announcement of cold start your army chief spilled the beans on the state of your tanks and artillery. What an idiot. Good hes gone now but the replacement sounds even more dumb.

CSD have nothing to do with china,and believe me my friend China is not going to jump in this war rather than being just a back ground supporter,china who aspires to b the next super power in the world and equalize American military and economical might in the next 30 yrs can not even afford a war against Somalia now,leave India out of equation,moreover it will like to see barrier's in the path of India without entering the field directly

@ those who think only PAK will be history are again living in arrogance. Kindly wake up. 20 missiles loaded with nuclear weapons will ensure India's place in hell. Sudhar jao abhi time hai.

Sorry thats not the the way u think,India is a big country with a population of 1.2 billion of which 70% is residing in villages

U people always chest thump about ur much bigger nuclear arsenal,but u know why dont we care,because even that is not enough to extradition India as a nation

Even in the worst scenario more than half of our population will still survive

We will b thrashed,battered and crushed but we will survive

But what about Pakistan,a handful of population,a handful of land,whats ur chance of survival

I always laugh when Pakistani's proudly claim about this nuclear armagaedon,how they will destroy as if even our single soldier crossed into ur nation with a totally wrong perception of reality

 

[Xeric]

Instead of issuing such blank statements, why dont you enlighten us what your interpretation of CSD is, where I am wrong?

i like my under-commands to work hard and rough it out and earn respect through rigor. Ofcourse i do point out mistakes during the process as i have done already.

The fact that you are having to resort to issuing such blanket statements without discussing the topic in a civil manner tells that there is something in those posts that makes you uneasy! That means I am right about CSD and you know it! If not, you would have made a post clarifying the mistakes.

Uneasy..yeah!

BTW, did you ever read post #87?

Please go through the CSD AGAIN and if you would have any sense you would exactly know what you have been missing. i already have given you a hint when i replied to Deck another one goes like this; you DONT know a tosh about what's the purpose of 8 'strike corps' breaking into Pakistan!!

Enjoy!

Another one of your blanket statements. Critical thinking is not your forte. Its quite clear that you dont make orders. I dont blame you. You are in the level of hierarchy where you just follow orders and pass them down to your subordinates. You are trained to follow orders not make them. Such statements from you reinforce that pov.

Lolzz..i gave you an advice that you should have attacked Pakistan (which was in reply to an mistaken notion that LeT would have been punished by doing so as Op Prakarm had nothing to do with LeT expect making them an excuse for the aggression - this has been amply cleared up by Santro in his post # 111 , the 2001-02 standoff was to punish Pakistan and LeT was never on the target penal) and you a cyber-warrior has already started making assumptions over my nature of designation. Lolzz.. i must say i am not sure if your rants make me uneasy, but my post sure hit your balls!

If you taxed your critical thinking ability even a wee bit, you would have realized that there is truth to what I posted. Your having to resort to what you believe to be "below the belt attacks", says you have a very limited understanding of the concept and its role in the larger scheme of things.

Yeah, ofcourse someone who kicked the little Jesus out of you during Kargil and Siachen would not know anything about strat, but an e-warrior in his stinking shorts sitting over that smelly couch of his would know more.