See the problem is that national jingoism always take the better of poster. Mind it i am not accusing you but only saying that irrespective of nationality lets discuss with logic....with that said let me reply to your post....
And how much GDP are we spending exactly
, do you have the exact number because i remember reading about it not long ago it was around 4%. Pakistan Army will never let its budget reach a point where it becomes impossible for the economy to sustain it, we are not the Soviets or the North Koreans.
If that is the case then it is great. But I would request you to think a little more on it. Soviet/North Koreans are not fools so let's not be-little them. They did not armed themselves to core just because the love arms. Ground situation demanded that because there adversary is economically strong and they could not have let the balance tilt towards the enemy and ultimately end up in a catch-22....Dictatorships do not enjoy the same checks and balances as democracy...Yes democratic set-up is slow but then provide you some additional checks before you commit grave mistakes...This is what did the soviets...
I am not sure if it 4% of GDP or not. You would know better than me, however around $8 billion dollar for an economy like Pak is a little too big amount. Now read my post again where i shared some big ticket items that new delhi has already planned. Don't you think this will put a huge burden on your already fragile economy???
Anyhow it's your country and you have to decide what is best for you...My point being cold-start is pushing you big time and is denting your economy....
Indeed whether Cold Start is a success or not only time will tell, but looking at the reality at ground this doctrine looks extremely shaky. The Indian Army wants to imitate NATO during Desert Storm, a fast thunderous attack that leaves the enemy shell shocked. One important fact you guys forget is that neither are your capabilities equivalent to those of NATO and your adversary fields one of the world's most battle hardened military machines.
See i don't want to get into dynamics of NATO power and how battle hardened PA is..However thisking IA is run by fools might also not be right....We may lack the capabilities as of now but we are working on it.....As said before the acquisitions we had in last 5-7 years and what we are planning for next decade definitely shows we are improving our capabilities as we speak....
The economy is fragile due to the WOT and severe incompetence of the current Government. But the Armed Forces are not going out of their way and splashing billions of dollars on shiny new weapons, whatever weapons that are being acquired were already in the pipeline for quite some years and have already been paid for. The Armed Forces are using the money in the most cost effective manner; taking old F16's and putting them through CCIP, or taking OHP's and putting them through Genesis upgrade. They might not be as good as brand new but they definitely get the job done especially in our environment.
Wait a minute, i never said your Army is wasting money or is not spending it in the best possible manner. My point is that you have to increase your defence budget at the time when your economy is kep afloat because of IMF and when your PM called out that you are not capable to take care of millions of your netizens devastated by floods....What do you infer from it??? Do you see cold start has any role to play here????
Yup; Post Mumbai Attacks(Allah bless the souls of the victims) i heard the same thing but no action, only talk. Although the IAF did act a bit naughty but was replied in kind with an iron fist from PAF.
See this is where i hate to indulge in discussions, because this is mere chest thumping. It is foolish to get into war when you can get the job done otherwise...Military action is and should always be the last option...Lack of military action no way means that will or capability is not there....Do i need to remind you the diplomatic offensive against Pak and how succesful it has been??? Please suggest me a good reason for India to attack Pak???? Don't you think it would have hurt our economy big time??? As said Cold start was derived out of 2003 show down. Now our Army has given another option to civil class. It has its pros and cons and it is upto the political class to use it or not depending upon the circumstances.
Now lets get back to this so called Cold Start Doctrine aka "Dhaka Start". This whole strategy was conceived after Indian Army's frustration with dealing with Pakistan in 2002. The Indian Army took months to mobilize and reach the border, and not to mention it cost the lives of 800 soldiers. Pakistan Army on the other hand mobilized with much more efficiency and Divisions from as far away as Balochistan and KP were at our Eastern Borders in less than 2 weeks.
I am not sure about your months and week comparison but yet by the time we mobilized there was no element of surprise left. I agree to that part and that gives COld-Start birth....
Now the Indian Army wants a strategy where they will mass their assets at a much faster pace and escalate the conflict before the politicians could get a cold feet. Once IA has parked its tanks and other assets right next to the border, the politicians would probably feel helpless because it would be a shame for the IA to be called back to their peace time locations after such a huge effort.
This is not correct. IA will not do anything unless and until civil class tell them to. This is a stark difference between us. So once you(read politicians) give an order of attack there is no point of having cold-feet and calling them back. The strategy is to go for offense after our politicians gives a go and be punitive before international pressure brings the conflict to a halt. Probably you are confused between International Pressure and Cold-Feet of our Politicians....
Judging from the past, IA went for concentration of its forces against Pakistan. In Cold Start, IA wants to open multiple battle fronts and believe that they will be able to achieve this due to their superior numbers. This plan could definitely work but their is also equal chance of this plan of falling apart.
No doubt about it...Every plan which looks great on paper have equal chance to fail if not executed properly....
If your IBG's are poorly led by your officers(IA is facing shortage in their officer core) and they fail to communicate with themselves effectively, than you have a huge problem because your enemy is not going to be just sitting there. If their is one thing PA can pride itself upon is its officer core, its simply top class and this opinion is shared by many international experts.
Similar notions are about IA as well. Though operations like Kargil gives an inclination that communication is not as good as projected, however thinking that enemy is not worth his salt is like living in fools paradise, so i have no objection to your statement. Anyways as said above a plan is as good as executed...
So if your IBG's loose their steam in our territory and the attack falls apart after taking some punishment from the defenders, your IBG's are opening themselves to a counter attack or being outflanked. Your enemy also have the option of opening up another front and capturing part of your territory.
Couple of minor flaws. The idea is to open multiple fronts but not to go deep inside Pakistan...We don't want to bring the nuclear threshhold. Having said that even if we manage to put in the doctorine succesfully we will still have to protect our territory because PA will counter-attack to relieve pressure from other fronts, similar to what IA did in 65. So that worry will always be there irrespective of Cold Start effective implementation....
If i remember after the Mumbai Attacks Gen Kapoor stated that he feared that Pakistan could capture part of Indian territory which would have been politically unacceptable.
What??? Our media is always looking out for such news. Don't remember any such thing. Would appreciate if you can share something...
So this whole notion of an easy victory over Pakistan might be good for chest thumping in India, but in reality victory over Pakistan is no easy task.
I am not sure who told you that victory over Pakistan is an easy task...In fact no war is easy, only fools can think otherwise...
With all the billions that India has spent on weapons, Pakistan can counter whatever India can throw at them. Things are still fairly even balanced, that is why India has not taken any action against Pakistan.
You can't be more wrong...It is not always brawn, countries have to use brain as well otherwise operations like kargil can do lot damage(economic, strategic, geo-political and loss of lives)....As said lack of military action no way tell that will or capability is not there...Regarding the parity between our Armed forces then i don't want to indulge in d!ck measuring competition. If you think you can defend yourself then great. In a war one side loose other wins. All depends upon how effectively plans are implemented and what fire power you possess. I wish that time never come. Though i must say looking at the money GOI is pouring to modernize our forces Pak has lot of work to do....
I seriously urge you to not take PA as a bunch of push overs, reading the responses at this thread of our Indian friends certainly makes me think thats the Indian belief. Our war planners at GHQ take their job very seriously, they don't operate with complacency.
Why you even care what Indian member's are thinking...As far as i know neither i take PA as bunch of push overs nor our Armed forces. In fact if you see many from Pakistan dis-regard what our Army top-brass has said about two-front wars, limited war as mere chest thunping and wet dreams. They don't take them seriously which is a grave mistake. As an adversary i would love to have a complacent enemy then cautious but one much realize that today's india has realized her might and we are very confident lot. Our PM has clearly said the zone of our influence and we are working day and night to ensure that happens....
In a shorter war what India is envisioning, the scales are very much even. Its going to be a short but bloody war and Pakistan definitely possess the weapons to make it bloody for India. I just pray that this day never comes when our tanks are exchanging fire, i would be much more happier if we are trading goods.
As said if you think that scales are very much even then good for you. From what i am looking we do need a reality check. Things are changing at a very fast rate. Don't get our slow red-tape beaurocratic babudam delusion you about the pace with which we are improving. Anyhow there is no point in empty chest thumping...Also one small thing - We are fine with the status quo. Siachen and heights are under our control, so is the lifeline of Pak(read water). We have no zest for the other half of Kashmir and that is why you see almost every Indian fine with converting LOC to border. Our job is to find out a way to punish Pak militarily if our civilian govt want's to try that option. We will succeed or not only time will tell but one thing is for sure we are going to put lot of pressure on your budget....
