Killing India’s hidden ‘Cold Start’ strategy

[gubbi]

Lolz..you are dumber than i thought.

Man is the entire indian race in a habit of eat what it spits?

You were hammering all of us that why should india negate of accept the existence of CS and you got a facepalm in response to it, and now showing how stupid you are you unwillingly accepted that CS exists and can be executed against Pakistan. How the heck said that we wouldt prepare for an offensive development by our neigbours?

Numbskull sire, let me tell you what exactly is happening on this thread (or should i say what does the article revolves around);

1-The CSD exists, now whether that can be put it effect is something that time would tell.

2-After having being hammered by the US, india has to lick it's own turd and face the humiliating of blaming the CS over 'some twisting by the thinktanks'.

3-The article is indeed interested in pointing out two things; One that india has to eat upon its own words. Two, the world in general and india in particular should not accuse Pakistan paranoia as the indian threat was/is/would always be there against Pakistan (read the CSD, this time).

Man, you are shallower than i initially thought!

The entire post is simply a rant, without any substance whatsoever. It is clear that you do not understand CSD. Else you wouldnt be frothing and ranting like this. I posted sources for how Pak army is concerned about the controversial CSD and making up scenarios to apparently overcome it. You have nothing to comment about that? Pity. For all the gurgling noises being made about CSD, technically, it is an "offensive Defence" doctrine. Sounds familiar?

This post like many others of yours shows that a grasp of how nuances affect the bigger scheme of things eludes you. I should have known better than to engage you.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

How exactly? By forcing your opponent to upgrade her military hardware, forcing her three services of the Armed Forces to work together, reducing her reaction time even further to reach the borders . If you think thats working than please believe what ever you people think but clearly Indian propaganda is having its effect on you guys

as if , our so called opponent, wouldnt do all these mentioned in your post, if there was no such doctrine. Its working.......how....well, just keep on guessing.

 

[deckingraj]

Yes after Obama's Speech I would love to see some of our Indian members contribute. I mean a year ago you guys were glorifying your so called COLD START STRATEGY and now all of a sudden, the AMERICAN President comes and forces the Indians to take a U-turn.. hahaha UNCLE SAM UNCLE SAM.. what can i say..

Whom you are referring to when you say you guys??? Indian member's in PDF or GOI??? Let me tell you that GOI has never said that COld Start is an official doctorine, in fact GOI has denied it. It is the mebers here who even then and now are saying that it exist. After 2003 showdown one has to be naive to think that such a strategy don't exist. In fact if you look at our acquisition from last 5-7 years and planned for next 5 years you can easily make out that we are moving in that direction.


Now why an official denial. It is simple - this strategy has been used by Pak leadership to deny US pressure on moving more troops to western border. The message is simple and clear - Do whatever you(India) want to do, no need to portray it....So there is no U turn, in fact i would prefer you guys to think that India backed out and has taken a U turn....however i am sure smarter lot across the border will not get deceived....

 

[gubbi]

Think that 2001-2 standoff.. if I remember correctly..didn't some IA troop suicides start during that??..but wait.. IA just raised a battalion of prostitutes recently for Kashmir.. that could work for cold start forces as well.

Oww, c'mon Santro! Not this from you! I have great respect for you. Dont do this.

The whole idea of cold start involves constant readiness for a corps sized force.

Not exactly. The Sundarji doctrine, which was followed by IA in 2002 stand off, concerned ever ready 3 big strike corps! However, the element of surprise was lost when it took more than 3 months to amass troops at the border.

CSD OTOH, concerns about 8 smaller strike corps - infantry, mechanized divisions, CAS et al! The idea is to strike anywhere along the entire India's western border, with either all the 8 corps or a few corps. Grab some land and STOP! The political leaders will do the rest.

In such a scenario, Pakistan will lose some territory and that territory will be used by India as a bargaining chip in subsequent negotiations. This loss of strategic advantage in diplomacy is what unnerves many in Pakistan.

 

[Xeric]

On one hand there is an argument that Indian cold start is Frozen DOA (Dead on Arrival) and on the other hand, a contrast argument is given Pakistan feels threatened bcoz of the Indian cold start doctrine and talks of using tactical weapons on Indian IBG's.

Opposite views?

^^ Ok let me make it easy for you.

CS or whatever offensive strat is deadly. Even if it wont succeed or dont go as planned it would bring destruction. If the thing is executed and it goes as planned, india is the winner and if it is screwed (and it probably will) still Pakistan would be the one to suffer more damage because of the strat depth thingy, the only difference this time would be that india would also be fighting a survival war as Pakistan would have launched its offensive punch.

Now having said that, personally in my opinion CS is a death wish. i could have called it a dud (as are your grenades) but than i should give that much credit to your planners. As per the CSD you people should be able to paralyse Pakistan and 'crush' its forces BEFORE the international drama starts, but guess what, none of you can garuntee that this wishful thinking would go as planned and would not turns out into a nuclear disaster (the Nuclear Mutually Assured Destruction - MAD shyt). So the CS exists but how successful would it be on execution should be left on time. At the moment what we could do is to make some assumptions and guesses to the eficacy of this strategy. Now what does the reality on ground tells us; it tells us that though india is capable of unveiling the CSD (so the 'frightened' Pakistan) but for it to succeed in totality india still has to go leaps and bounds (so the CSD - a dud argument).

Moreover, even if the CSD fails it would still bring destruction to our borders which we (a peace loving Nation) dont want to heppen.

So in short, even if the CSD is 'Frozen DOA', it would still hurt us and as we better we prepared for it so the 'paranoia'.

Understand or cyclestand?


Now, you people either tell the world that CSD is just some piece of shyt ******* at some corner (i mean some concrete acts that could satisfy all) or let us 'enjoy' the so called 'paranoia', psyops or some other shyt you may like to call it!

 

[deckingraj]

How exactly? By forcing your opponent to upgrade her military hardware, forcing her three services of the Armed Forces to work together, reducing her reaction time even further to reach the borders . If you think thats working than please believe what ever you people think but clearly Indian propaganda is having its effect on you guys

Don't you think all the points that you have mentioned prooves that it is working???? Whatever we are doing only 2-3% of our GDP is being used. Care to look at the percentage of GDP you guys have to put in Defense. whether cold start is going to be a success or not, only time will tell. However at the moment it is doing two things

- It is putting additional burden on already fragile economy
- It is giving one simple message. There will not be a showdown like 2003, there will be action.

As said how much India will be successful in it is a matter of speculation which i am not interested in, however my advice ponder over the two points mentioned and then re-look at your post....

 

[Xeric]

How much U.S sympathizes with ur concern was evident when Obama visited India,no a single mention about cold start even after apprehension's by american military

Neither a single mention of Pakistan being a 'terror factory'.

Face-palm!

 

[prototype]

Lolz..you are dumber than i thought.


Man is the entire indian race in a habit of eat what it spits?

and now i need to ask,is this the quality of a tink tank

You were hammering all of us that why should india negate of accept the existence of CS and you got a facepalm in response to it, and now showing how stupid you are you unwillingly accepted that CS exists and can be executed against Pakistan. How the heck said that we wouldt prepare for an offensive development by our neigbours?

Either u r born dumb or u pretends to b a dumb

Facepalm my foot,who gave it,ur worthless army who rant about nukes every 2 seconds when India stare an eye.

Do u ever mean what is the meaning of never denying a strategy

What make u feel that CSD is officially over,did India licked back after spitting it in ur mouth

U can pepare,but against what,about a strategy,the hell u have no idea,u have a force that can not even properly fight in Wazaristhan,and u r claiming about fighting an entire integrated battle unit,man sing about nukes,that suit to much better

1-The CSD exists, now whether that can be put it effect is something that time would tell.

For the first time some sane comments

2-After having being hammered by the US, india has to lick it's own turd and face the humiliating of blaming the CS over 'some twisting by the thinktanks'.

I needlessly flattered u above,u r just what i called u at the start,U.S hammered India,when,in ur dreams,have looked at the pattern of sale of defense equipments between both the nation,each and every weapon tailor made to b used in a cold start situation,u can continue lick U.S a$$ for ur posterity and make urself believe that U.S hammered India

3-The article is indeed interested in pointing out two things; One that india has to eat upon its own words. Two, the world in general and india in particular should not accuse Pakistan paranoia as the indian threat was/is/would always be there against Pakistan (read the CSD, this time).

Man, you are shallower than i initially thought!

Again and again the repeated ranting even without any evidence,India ate,India licked,and Pakistan'i military were doing puppet dance in the name of defending Indian CSD

 

[karan.1970]

Neither a single mention of Pakistan being a 'terror factory'.

Face-palm!

Except.. "Terror Havens within Pakistan's borders will not be tolerated."

Havens definitely sounds better than factories..

 

[Xeric]

The entire post is simply a rant, without any substance whatsoever. It is clear that you do not understand CSD. Else you wouldnt be frothing and ranting like this. I posted sources for how Pak army is concerned about the controversial CSD and making up scenarios to apparently overcome it. You have nothing to comment about that? Pity. For all the gurgling noises being made about CSD, technically, it is an "offensive Defence" doctrine. Sounds familiar?

This post like many others of yours shows that a grasp of how nuances affect the bigger scheme of things eludes you. I should have known better than to engage you.

Man, you want a uniformed person to affirm to the news-pieces that say we are preparing something, right?

Gosh! You are stupid!

 

[deckingraj]

Had been good if a little restraint is also shown. Otherwise what is the point of getting into discussion...Just trash the thread and move on, no????

And who is it hurting?

What do you think???

Arent we using the so called 'paranio' over Cold Start to face the US and refuse their demands like going in N.Waziristan? Now if you call that psyops, may God bless india!

Fair enough. Since now there has been official confirmation from our military brass that CSD is not their doctorine can we expect PA to launch offensive in N. Waziristan?? Shall we????

But then i wonder, why would india try taking this Cold Start back to the same very hole it came out from?

Officialy india never acknowledged CSD. Please care to provide a source which made you think otherwise. If we have not acknowledged it at any given time then how come what you said above is true????

May be too much US pressure?

That is the problem. We are not dependent on US so please suggest how is it too much pressure. In fact all India has done is denied CSD existence and pressure is back on you...Now you are short on one excuse for not going into N. Waziristan, so May God Bless Pakistan.....

May be it's not just causing Pakistan to go 'paranoid' but instead Pakistan is showing a genuine concern to which US sympathizes and india has to lick its own spit every now an then?

I am sorry but you seems to be contradicting...Above you were saying that GOP is using CSD as an excuse for not going in N. Waziristan. Here you are saying that CSD is a genuine concern. Would appreciate if you can clarify a bit more.....

If that's how things work at your side, really God MUST bless india!

Well if you look from Indian lens then believe me it is working...but that's fine in case you don't...Why bother breaking our Euphoria, if we are wrong then it is going to work in your favor during war, no???

 

[karan.1970]

Seems hurt ego's are more at work than any nervousness...
but wait.. IA just raised a battalion of prostitutes recently for Kashmir.. that could work for cold start forces as well.
.

Ununiformed and unidentified insurgents and militants that fire at Indian armed forces and civilians alike are to be termed as soldiers and uniformed women in Indian BSF uniforms are called prostitutes based on a tabloid article written by a pseudonamed writer. Maybe the concept of a woman facing off the enemy is a little too much for insecure mindsets..

Closet Talibans.. anyone??


Anyway, post reported..

 

[Xeric]

and now i need to ask,is this the quality of a tink tank

People here would agree that i am a mirror. And you just saw your own face in it, which was not pretty.

Either u r born dumb or u pretends to b a dumb

Hmmm...let me choose between the two. Well, i would like to go with the latter, happy?

Facepalm my foot,who gave it,ur worthless army who rant about nukes every 2 seconds when India stare an eye.

Thanks God that you know that Pakistan doesnt have 'No first use policy'.

Got issues with that? Go burn yourself up! As you can do a shyt about it.

Do u ever mean what is the meaning of never denying a strategy

How would i know, i only pretend to be dumb.

What make u feel that CSD is officially over,did India licked back after spitting it in ur mouth

No.

You didnt spit in our mouth, but your COAS did spit in his countrymen's and Nations mouth when he said that “There is nothing called ‘Cold Start’. As part of our overall strategy we have a number of contingencies and options, depending on what the aggressor does. In the recent years, we have been improving our systems with respect to mobilisation, but our basic military posture is defensive,” the Army Chief told The Indian Express. :

U can pepare,but against what,about a strategy,the hell u have no idea,u have a force that can not even properly fight in Wazaristhan,and u r claiming about fighting an entire integrated battle unit,man sing about nukes,that suit to much better

i salute your ignorance.

Hats off to your intellect.

For the first time some sane comments

i am flattered.

I needlessly flattered u above,u r just what i called u at the start,U.S hammered India,when,in ur dreams,have looked at the pattern of sale of defense equipments between both the nation,each and every weapon tailor made to b used in a cold start situation,u can continue lick U.S a$$ for ur posterity and make urself believe that U.S hammered India

When the US brought up Pakistan's case with the ever stubborn india and india bent over to it, yes i call that hammering. Though i dont know what you would call it?

Again and again the repeated ranting even without any evidence,India ate,India licked,and Pakistan'i military were doing puppet dance in the name of defending Indian CSD

Evidence would require a bit of googling and a lots of brains, both of which you obviously lack!

 

[deckingraj]

Man, you want a uniformed person to affirm to the news-pieces that say we are preparing something, right?

Gosh! You are stupid!

@ Gubbi, Xeric please tone down your posts, no matter who started it....You both are senior members and the topic is actually quite interesting to ponder upon....let's leave the offensive tone to infinite trollers on both sides and help mods keep up the forum standards....

Please see if you can follow the simple request. Xeric, sir if you can, please respond to my post above

 

[gubbi]

Man, you want a uniformed person to affirm to the news-pieces that say we are preparing something, right?

Exactly! So why would you expect Indian authorities to either accept or deny anything?

ps: Lets leave the derogatory language out to keep discussions civil and gentlemanly. Thanks.


edit: My 2000th post! For posterity sake!!