Killing India’s hidden ‘Cold Start’ strategy

[Xeric]

can you please explain what do you know about India and Indian mind set

Duh....??!!

 

[rockstarIN]

Pakistan, China, Bangladesh need to form a defense pact. All three respective nations have tension and ongoing conflict with a troublesome neighbor. It should be made clear any military attack on either of the three nations all nations will strike until complete surrender or destruction.

In fact, the best way to resolve this troublesome neighbor is to go on the offensive, a trilateral invasion. The enemy must be broken into mini states much of the land conquered and consumed. Each nation shall reach nirvana in the spoils of the physical and military process of taking control.

"Cold start".....tsk

Wake up...have a bed coffee

 

[Markus]

This is a useless thread about a failed Indian doctrine. Lets focus on some more beneficial threads.

Failure or success. Time will tell.

 

[INDIAN007]

Pakistan, China, Bangladesh need to form a defense pact. All three respective nations have tension and ongoing conflict with a troublesome neighbor. It should be made clear any military attack on either of the three nations all nations will strike until complete surrender or destruction.

In fact, the best way to resolve this troublesome neighbor is to go on the offensive, a trilateral invasion. The enemy must be broken into mini states much of the land conquered and consumed. Each nation shall reach nirvana in the spoils of the physical and military process of taking control.

"Cold start".....tsk

Chill Brother ...

 

[DV RULES]

I don't like to be member of useless conversation as many doing showing their wordy capabilities but i know one thing that India must be understand with open eyes, open mind & open ears that;

True warriors are sitting in Pakistan and by east borders sitting only Singers & drum beaters so

in any matter i believe on history and than look further, like;

considering the history we know that who rules the Hindostan long time and you know…… they were KHANS & FROM THE ORIGIN FROM Pakistan & Afghanistan & Mongols.


India has big country:
i accept
India has big army
i accept
India has quantitative weapons
i accept

but

Pakistan has qualitative, deep harm effective army & weapons enough to tackle India.

No more to say Thanks.

 

[deckingraj]

I don't like to be member of useless conversation as many doing showing their wordy capabilities but i know one thing that India must be understand with open eyes, open mind & open ears that;

True warriors are sitting in Pakistan and by east borders sitting only Singers & drum beaters so

I am sure you are well aware that so called true warriors have not changed the status quo form past 62 years even by an inch apart from losing a lot. If i can achieve what i have just by being singers and drum beaters then i will always chose to be that. By being a singer and drum beater you have been able to keep the enemy at bay and are relaxed by listening to the symphony...what else can you ask for???

in any matter i believe on history and than look further, like;

considering the history we know that who rules the Hindostan long time and you know…… they were KHANS & FROM THE ORIGIN FROM Pakistan & Afghanistan & Mongols.

And you very well know that lot of people in hindustan got converted due the fear of the then Mughals. As far as history taught in India majority of those people were from today's Pakistan. Now i am not sure if you belong to the mighty warriors race or a converted singer and drum beater.....

India has big country:
i accept
India has big army
i accept
India has quantitative weapons
i accept

Amazingly sane talk in such an insane post...good job there...

but

well sanity was short-lived

Pakistan has qualitative, deep harm effective army & weapons enough to tackle India.No more to say Thanks.

Look no doubt you have a strong Army however this is also a fact that your Army cannot force India in any way. You have tried full-fledge war, you have tried bleed India by thousand cuts, you have tried small scale war like Kargil however the end-result has been exactly opposite then your aspirations. So high time to wake up and understand the ground reality.

 

[Xeric]

Yes it may have been true what you said , there is no problem with that .
i never said You LIED .

The problem was the condescending way of your putting it was basically to insult the soldiers , talking about their stench and stuff which wasn't required in the piece of information.

The piece of true info you gave me in your above post was the correct manner of putting facts , and you didn't have to put words like stench in it .

Your earlier post was quite clearly to denigrate those dead soldiers and a cheap tactic to score some points in your debate with gubbi .

These too are facts and you cant convince me otherwise. Anybody with an unbiased mind who read that post could tell your true intention.

Carry on ... if you think you did not say anything disgraceful then you should not find the need to justify yourself.

Oh please quit the emotional crap, it doesnt work with me.

As for the concern, well i must tell you that i was really glad that for the first time an Pakistan Vs india thread was not hijacked by '71, Balochistan, Kashmir and Kargil stuff, but then if you people are going to try playing sarcasm with me, man you would FAIL!

 

[Xeric]

Anyhow it's your country and you have to decide what is best for you...My point being cold-start is pushing you big time and is denting your economy....

Care to elaborate how?

But before you do that, let me tell you that your 'assumption' is wrong.

Still awaiting a clarification.

 

[Xeric]

You are right about one thing. I misquoted Battle Group as Strike corps. That detail might be insignificant to an amateur like me, but you being the professional will take offence at the slight. Its would be as important to you as the difference between a 0.8% and 1.0% Agarose gel is to me. My apologies.

Dont apologize. i dont do that nor do i accept any.

BTW, i am glad that atlast you were able to pick it up, but then it was just a minute part of the error.

Apart from that, I dont find I am wrong with my interpretation of CSD. And your underestimating my understanding of differences between tactical, operational and strategic levels is baseless. Kargil where you claim to have participated was a tactically brilliant move, but operationally mismanaged and most importantly strategically a blunder!

i would again say that you need to go through the CSD once again. i have already gave you some hints. Let me try again; you are not clear about the employment, tasks and exact mission of the IBGs.

This the last time i would be talking with you over this point, if you got it right, i'll be glad, if dont, i am done.

I have clearly noted in my post that Op Parakram was flawed right from the start. I have also clearly stated that GoP wasnt the target, but neither did India have a sound strategy about the operation.

Isnt it always easy to undermine oneself and let go of the blame

Though the initial idea was to teach Pakistan a lesson for supporting LeT, the element of surprise vanished while it became clear to policy makers that any conflict would develop into a full fledged war, which was NOT wanted by India.

The aim was a 'full fledged' war. How else were you planning to teach us terrorist-supporters a lesson then? Chundi wudd k?

Lol. I find it funny that you attribute the stench of your soiled pants while running from Indian forces to our martyred braves. Funny, in all that confusion, you even forgot to collect the bodies of your soldiers. Did the stench of blown and dismembered comrades so scare you that you left them to rot on the mountains? Tch tch.

The utter disrespect you displayed for enemy soldiers is very unsoldier like. That is enough to tell us all about what kind of a 'soldier' you are. Pity the nation that has soldiers like you. You limited thinking capability and utter disrespect coupled by baseless arrogance has left everyone disgusted. You sir, are disgusting.

ps: I am done here. You cannot even carry a meaningful discussion, for a TT.

Done.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Oh please quit the emotional crap, it doesnt work with me.

As for the concern, well i must tell you that i was really glad that for the first time an Pakistan Vs india thread was not hijacked by '71, Balochistan, Kashmir and Kargil stuff, but then if you people are going to try playing sarcasm with me, man you would FAIL!

As i said , just carry on soldier , you dont need to justify yourself if you think you ve not said anything wrong .

As for the emotional part , i still can't figure out which part of my post was emotional .

For a hardened soldier as you are trying to project yourself , i am surprised you found that blunt post of mine emotional in anyway.

Anyways , lets just carry on with it

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Pakistan, China, Bangladesh need to form a defense pact. All three respective nations have tension and ongoing conflict with a troublesome neighbor. It should be made clear any military attack on either of the three nations all nations will strike until complete surrender or destruction.

In fact, the best way to resolve this troublesome neighbor is to go on the offensive, a trilateral invasion. The enemy must be broken into mini states much of the land conquered and consumed. Each nation shall reach nirvana in the spoils of the physical and military process of taking control.

"Cold start".....tsk

You know why i thanked you ? Because I haven't heard a joke as good as yours for quite some time now .In fact I am carrying my lappy around showing it to my friends who too are having a good laugh .

i am beginning to believe some claims of Pakistanis that they have a better sense of humour than Indians , finally.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

So that's exactly what I said. The Pakistan was already in two. Check the world map for further elaboration.

For the sake of of your country , i hope you are not older than 10.

 

[deckingraj]

Anyhow it's your country and you have to decide what is best for you...My point being cold-start is pushing you big time and is denting your economy....

Care to elaborate how?

But before you do that, let me tell you that your 'assumption' is wrong.

Still awaiting a clarification.

Not sure what's the purpose of awaiting a clarification when you already know that i am wrong. Anyhow since you have asked i can briefly share my thoughts on the subject.

Let's assume that even though top military brass has denied Cold Start(which i believe is nothing but tonic down diplomacy at best) yet not only it exist but we are working on it to increase our capability so that we can achieve what we are aiming for i.e. To teach pakistan a lesson if at all another mumbai happens.

If i look at the big ticket items that my country has acquired/ is planning to acquire in next 5-10 years it clearly suggest what i am saying above is not wrong in any way. What does it imply - to me Islamabad would have to join the Arms race whether she likes it or not in an unprecedented way,no??? Isn't it obvious that the rule of engagement has changed now??? Not only islamabad has to arm herself to teeth to deny any tactical/strategic advantage to India for a full-fledge war but they also have to ensure they have enough for a short and swift war.

Look under such a tight budgetory condition with millions devastated by funds you still had to increase your defence budget. Does that ring a bell at all??? Just to give you an example if i look at war's we have fought in the past one strategy that has been applied by PAF is to have a pre-emtive strike on our Air bases so as to deny us our numerical superiority, right??? Now with the kind of fighters that India is fielding at the moment and the kind of fighters India is going to induct in next 10 years are you telling me that it has/will have no impact on Pak budget??? 3 AC, nuclear submarines, ABM system, two 5 Generation fighter programmes etc etc has/will have no impact on Pak budget?? How come???? Since you say that you are well aware of Cold Start doctorine and know its objective very well yet i would like to re-phrase them.

COld Start in layman term means the moment Political Class gives a go, have a punitive action in Pak on multiple fronts(land-sea-air). Get control of some area(ensuring nuclear threshold is not crossed) and get your defenses in Place before international pressure puts the conflict to a halt. Then use the captured land as bargaining tool. Do you agree???

If yes then your counter step is to ensure you have every answer to whatever we throw at you. Here time is not a luxuary. You have to deny us any move within your territory and to do that you have to keep upgrading your firepower irrespective of the state of your economy. Now one cannot plan thinking that there cannot be any full-fledge war for some time, so we have time to catch up once economy allows. With cold start india has raised the bars and Pakistan has to be on her toes all the time. Terrorist attacks can happen any time with and there real potential for us to lock horns. For example viz-a-viz China we are taking our won sweet time to upgrade ourselves. Do you have the same luxuary viz-a-viz India??? Another terrorist attack and all bets are off, no????

Look Pakistan being small always had the edge to concentrate their forces on borders quicker than India(obviously the side effect is lack of strategic depth) but because of this Cold-Start we are going to cut down our deployment process by a big margin and that is grave for Pakistan. With cold-start we are cutting down the breathing space that Pak had when it comes to locking horns with India. I mean having a thriving economy, ever increasing geo-political might, with every single arms supplier in the word luring India to get a pie of her lucrative wishlist, with Pak engaged in WOT on one end a real danger of Cold Start on other you are telling me that there is no impact on your budget, then i am sorry can't help.....Look i know you have nukes but that does not mean you want to use them. You do want to punish India conventionally because nukes means suicide....So i am not sure how you are asserting that i am wrong when i say Cold-Start is/going to dent your economy....

 

[lionheart1]

Pakistan, China, Bangladesh need to form a defense pact. All three respective nations have tension and ongoing conflict with a troublesome neighbor. It should be made clear any military attack on either of the three nations all nations will strike until complete surrender or destruction.

In fact, the best way to resolve this troublesome neighbor is to go on the offensive, a trilateral invasion. The enemy must be broken into mini states much of the land conquered and consumed. Each nation shall reach nirvana in the spoils of the physical and military process of taking control.

"Cold start".....tsk

first save your country from invasion of nato forces, when your country's future hang in balance. if one terror attack on west can bring invading force to your home town.
you want to invade india , with weapon given as a charity by america and soft loan from china

 

[silent hawk]

first save your country from invasion of nato forces, when your country's future hang in balance. if one terror attack on west can bring invading force to your home town.
you want to invade india , with weapon given as a charity by america and soft loan from china

who wants to invade India????

As far as NATO forces are concerned they are our allies and we are collectively fighting a war against terror. What's so wrong in that?