Kayani wants India’s Afghan mission closed

[mikkix]

No...Pushtoons are only around 40% according to a bunch of different surveys. Certainly no where close to 60%.

And the war is certainly doing nothing to Pushtoon numbers considering none of the other ethnic groups are fighting in Afghanistan.

other ethnic groups are sharing powers in Afghanistan but 60% people are not involved by America....
Other ethnic group are also involved in fighting plz google it..

 

[linkinpark]

But Why are there Indian consulates on the Pakistan/Afghan border? I mean are they providing services to imaginary Indians crossing the Pakistan Afghan border?

There are only 4 Indian consulates - in Kabul, Herat, Jalalabad and Mazar-e-sherif. Only Jalalabad and Herat are close to Afghan-Pak border while Mazar-e-Sherif is on the north of Afghanistan and Kabul is the capital city. Indian carries out a lot of development activities like construction of dams, schools, laying electric cables, building television network, Afghan parliaments etc in and around these areas mainly. In order to support these activities India needs to have consulates (actually 2-4 rooms size except for Kabul which is an embassy) for better oversight and security of Indian-origin people. India is spending more than billion dollars and has every right as accorded by sovereign Afghan govt. to establish consulates in both Indian and Afghan interests.

Information on Indian consulates here - Embassy of India, Kabul, Afghanistan

Incidentally, Pakistan also has 4 consulates exactly in those four places. Pakistan is not carrying out developmental activities not even 1/5th of what India does, so why does it need four consulates.

Information on Pakistani consulates here - EMBASSY OF PAKISTAN IN AFGHANISTAN

Moreover, Pakistan till date not even produced one iota of evidence of the Indian involvement except for incessant crying and whining about Indian involvement in fomenting terrorists when in fact it is done by Pak home grown terrorist organizations.

 

[dbc]

So why are there so many Indian consulates in Afghanistan, for instance, in Mazar, in Herat, in Jalalabad, in Kandahar? What's their purpose? To which Indians are they providing services?

Unless Pakistan can provide evidence to the contrary, the Indians are providing assistance for a peaceful, stable and prosperous future.

"We are here for the same reason the U.S. and others are here -- to see a stable, democratic, multiethnic Afghanistan,"

- Indian Ambassador to Afghanistan Jayant Prasad

• Disbursement of $1.2 billion in pledged assistance for projects vital to Afghanistan's economy.
• Humanitarian assistance – winter clothing in November–December 2001 and February and December
2003; 20,000 blankets sent to Herat in February 2002; earthquake relief in April 2002.
• The rehabilitation of the Indira Gandhi Institute of Child Health, and of Hamid Karzai’s old school, the
Habibia School.
• A contribution of $200,000 to the World Bank-managed Afghan Reconstruction Trust Fund.
• A $10 million budget subsidy to the Afghan government.
• The provision of 274 buses for public transport.
• Training of civil servants, police and lawyers.
• A gift of three civil aircraft for Afghanistan’s national carrier, Afghan Ariana.
• The provision of a million tonnes of wheat as food assistance through WFP.
• The supply of 300 vehicles, including 120 multi-utility vehicles made by an Indian defence company,
Mahindra Defence Systems, to the Afghan National Army.
• The establishment of telephone services in 11 provincial capitals.10
• The reconstruction and upgrading of the road between Delaram, near Herat, and the Iranian border,easing the passage of Afghan trade through Iran.
• The construction of the Salma Dam (a power project) in Herat province.
• The construction of a new parliament building.
• A major power transmission project to alleviate Kabul’s severe power problems.
• The repair of a mosque in Mazar-e-Sharif.

 

[muse]

Only Jalalabad and Herat are close to Afghan-Pak border

Herat is on the Iranian border.

Unless Pakistan can provide evidence to the contrary

So there is now some sort of court to which evidence has to be provided? The only authority to be advised is the GIRoA and it will see it's self interest - sooner than later.

And so your point is that because of development work which you cannot name, cannot identify, these consulates are needed - whereas the embassy in Kabul is otherwise, busy.

Sell this trash somewhere else.

 

[linkinpark]

Herat is on the Iranian border.



So there is now some sort of court to which evidence has to be provided? The only authority to be advised is the GIRoA and it will see it's self interest - sooner than later.

And so your point is that because of development work which you cannot name, cannot identify, these consulates are needed - whereas the embassy in Kabul is otherwise, busy.

Sell this trash somewhere else.

The development India carrying out in Afghanistan is there on Indian consulate website. I'm attaching the details in pdf.

request download ticket | ifile.it

request download ticket | ifile.it

 

[muse]

As noted nothing you can name, a reference to a document -- on the other hand Pakistani authorities contend that thse consulates are engaged in formenting terrorism in Pakistan -- thus far the GIRoA has not found this contention something it feels a need to act upon -- getting GIRoA to feel this need to act will come sooner rather than later, the NATO/ISAF mission will not disappear but I think Afghans themselves will act on this.

 

[linkinpark]

As noted nothing you can name, a reference to a document -- on the other hand Pakistani authorities contend that thse consulates are engaged in formenting terrorism in Pakistan -- thus far the GIRoA has not found this contention something it feels a need to act upon -- getting GIRoA to feel this need to act will come sooner rather than later, the NATO/ISAF mission will not disappear but I think Afghans themselves will act on this.

I don't know what reference/documents you are looking for. It has been well appreciated, the works of India in Afghanistan, by not only US/NATO but also GoA and its people. If you also look at the popularity of India among Afghan people (according to survey by ABC news) - 74% view India favourably and in contrast 90% view Pakistan unfavourably (talks high about Pakistan).
Frustration With War, Problems in Daily Life Send Afghans' Support for U.S. Efforts Tumbling - ABC News

Now, regarding allegations of Pakistan of Indian consulates fomenting terrorism in Pakistan has no basis and is usual paranoia of Pakistan. If any, Kabul Indian embassy attack is linked to ISI. If Pakistan has evidence on India's role it should presented in International fora just as India furnished evidence on the role of Pakistan based terror organizations (and its backers in establishment) complicity not only to Pakistan but also to International powers leading to proscribing of LeT/JuD.

And also it needs to be answered that why Pakistan has four consulates in Afghanistan if it is not carrying any major developmental activities there. If Pakistan with no strong developmental activities can have 4 consulates then there it is justified that India can have 4 consulates as it is carrying major developmental activities.

 

[muse]

Linkin

see a thread on world affairs titled "Whats worng with this"

Why should Pakistan have 4 consulates? -- Hey, It's Pakistan, as an immediate neighbor, her interests have to be protected and cared for.

 

[Dance]

Linkin

see a thread on world affairs titled "Whats worng with this"

Why should Pakistan have 4 consulates? -- Hey, It's Pakistan, as an immediate neighbor, her interests have to be protected and cared for.

Plus we have like 4 million afghans living in Pakistan.

Anyways its pretty obvious why indians have so many consulates there. I mean half of their population lives under poverty, dying of hunger, etc yet they want to spend money on a country which is not their neighbor and has nothing to do with them.

 

[Dance]

At least we are spending our own money, But you guys are living of charity

Yeah but we still don't have more poor people then 26 African countries. You should spend your so called "money" on the 500 or 600 million people that live under poverty ( the most number of poor people in the whole world).

P.S "superpower" india receives just as much aid as Pakistan

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Plus we have like 4 million afghans living in Pakistan.

Anyways its pretty obvious why indians have so many consulates there. I mean half of their population lives under poverty, dying of hunger, etc yet they want to spend money on a country which is not their neighbor and has nothing to do with them.

Typical attitude of some younger Pakistani members here who consider Afghanistan their backyard and speak as if they represent the mouthpiece of Afghanistan.

I think Indians have 3 reasons for being in Afghanistan.
1.Afghanistan is one of our older friends i.e times before the cold war era etc.
2.We want a stable Afghanistan as it impacts Kashmir for us(i won't go into detail into this).
3.Economic interests also exists to some extent(even though we are aware we will be replaced by China soon),

Though the 2nd reason being the strongest.The most important fact is Afghans are comfortable with those 3 reasons as none of them compromise on the sovereignty of Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is brother like nation to Pakistan considering history,culture and religion.However Pakistan's paranoia with Indian presence gave rise to concepts like Strategic depth,whose results can be seen today when we hear about Pakistan on the news.

this interview explains well how Pakistan's relations with Afghanistan deteriorated.

However,No one denies Pakistan's importance when considering Afghanistan,as Pakistan has the most important role to play right now and as always has,the only question is can you realize the fact that you misued that role, and continue to do so?

ontopic
In the last 60 years we have seen many Pakistani generals like Kiyani who wanted certain things to happen(regarding India),and making attempts for it,we all know the results.

Lets see if Kiyani too can make it to the hall of fame along with Musharraf and Niazi.

 

[muse]

Fair enough - but Ahmad rashid ought not be taken as gthe last word in these matters - he is most certainly knowledgable - but his 10 year experience as a anti-government marxist fighter in Balouchistan and his subsequent "rehabilitation" by the ISI - should allow us to be more circumspect with regard to the picture Mr. Rashid paints. I'm not suggesting he is a"Asset" rather that his "ideological" leanings should be kept in mind.

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod

Please don't behave in a petulant manner - you brought the issues in the original discussion, and now you want to pout -- I not having it -

Of course, it was me that was petulant by bringing in (and hanging on to) caste into the equation and not replying to the issues raised!

First, You agreeing that the Indian government promotes caste system. Second, "fast tracking" is simply not required, all are equal or they are not.

Yes, all are equal. That is what our constitutions says (unlike that of IRP or any other Islamic country on the face of the earth).

Some people have been historically disadvantaged and they need extra support. That is again recognized by India.

Now tell me. Were you born in Pakistan and migrate to UK? Did you ever get a Pakistan passport?

Did you swear that Ahmedias are not Muslims while doing that? What did you think when swearing that?

Do you believe all non-Muslims are going to burn in hellfire and you will watch the spectacle from the balcony of the heaven in some decent company?

Does that make "all equal"?

As I said, let's not try to score cheap points. Anyway, this is enough on this topic for now.

Getting back to the issue of Indian consulates on the Pakistani border - what is their purpose? Are there large numbers of Indians crossing the Pakistani border with Afghanistan?

The aim is to facilitate the large investments that have been pumped by India into infrastructure of the country. These consulates are manned by not more than a few people and are in the exact same locations where you also have Pakistani consulates. The same number and the same places.

As long as Afghan government has permitted them, who do you think you are to question them?

 

[Vinod2070]

So why are there so many Indian consulates in Afghanistan, for instance, in Mazar, in Herat, in Jalalabad, in Kandahar? What's their purpose? To which Indians are they providing services?

As mentioned, Pakistan has also opened its consulates in the exact same locations. Why get hyper over this?

 

[Vinod2070]

I won't have enough time to respond in detail for a few days, but the suggestion of 'Hindu blood' or 'Muslim blood' are both nonsensical.

Pakistanis have the blood of their ancestors in them, ancestors that they possibly share with all humans (if you believe in the human migration theory and the fact that we all originated from Africa). A little nearer to the present, in terms of timelines, and Pakistanis have the blood of the ethnic and racial groups that inhabited the lands comprising Pakistan today, as do Indians the blood of the ethnic and racial groups that inhabited the lands the comprise the modern Indian State, with the requisite intermingling through migration, trade and other contacts.

Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc. are belief systems - one cannot rationally argue that one possesses 'Hindu blood' or 'Muslim blood'.

This is obviously about having Hindu ancestors. Let's not try "baal ki khaal nikalana".

When your media, people and textbooks diss the religion of your ancestors, it is important to point it out.

Not to mention what it invites from the other party.