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Kayani should be court-martialed - Even Musharraf blames Kayani for delay because Kayani was scared

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Musharraf blames Kayani for delay in action against Taliban - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

This guy is the most scared COAS of Pakistan that I've come to known. Worse than the general who surrendered in Bangladesh. That guy surrendered over 70,000 soldiers, this guy surrendered Pakistan. He was scared for his life, because of which, tens of thousands of innocents lives were lost. He didn't want to face the risk of being attacked and scared of religious people too and thus didn't pursue operation against Taliban. So indeed he should be court martialed for all the innocent lives that were lost because of an incompetent and scared general of Pakistan.

Terrorists existed during the time of Musharraf and he went for lal masjid operation despite many being against the operation and opting for peace talks. He knew that negotiations are not understood by barbaric, it only buys them time. Kayani's inefficiency resulted in the tumor of Pakistan growing and hitting every joint of Pakistan until recent loss of nearly 150 students. Their blood is also on Kayani. We've to do the dirty laundry because someone was too scared. Another article: Kayani feared religious right’s backlash against him: Athar Abbas - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

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KARACHI: Former army chief retired Gen Pervez Musharraf believes that one of the reasons why the country’s security challenges have become almost insurmountable now is because his successor, retired Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, was too scared to take action against militants.

In an interview with Dawn on Tuesday, Gen Musharraf said that it was Gen Kayani’s own reluctance — and not poor judgement — that caused him to not launch an operation against the Taliban.

“You see, the main issue is that when a government is inactive, it requires an army chief to go and coax it into action. That’s what [Gen] Raheel has done. So either Gen Kayani was scared or too reticent or too reserved. He didn’t want to go and discuss this matter.”

‘I don’t think there should be martial law’
When this reporter pointed out that Gen Kayani must have gone to the then Pakistan Peoples Party government for an extension in his term as army chief — and the PPP government was said to have acquiesced within hours — Gen Musharraf said: “But that was for his own person. The army was clear in its views as a whole. They wanted action, even in Kayani’s days. Kayani has to be asked why he did not act [against militants]. I wouldn’t be able to comment on that. But the delay was all in that period.”

The former military ruler recalls that his government took on Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan chief Mulla Fazlullah in 2007. “We acted against him and defeated him. Peaceful elections were held in 2008. The turnout was good. The Awami National Party — and not religious parties — came to power in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. And then Fazlullah was allowed to return and set on fire 13 girls schools. He had the tourist resort in Malam Jabba torched. No action was taken till he crossed the Shangla Hills and almost blocked the Karakoram Highway. When there was international hue and cry that the militants were only 100 miles away from Islamabad, then they woke up.”

Apart from blaming Gen Kayani for his pusillanimity even when a wave of terrorism swept through the country, Gen Musharraf also feels he was let down by his successor when political adversaries thought he was vulnerable — he had taken off the all-powerful army uniform — and threatened him with an impeachment move.

Was he disappointed? “To a degree, yes. He could have helped out there. But, you see, I didn’t want to sit in the presidency as a useless president. I am not that type.” Had Gen Kayani made it clear that in a stand-off between Gen Musharraf and the PPP government, he would be neutral. “Yes.”

But Gen Musharraf seems to be quite happy with his successor’s successor, Gen Raheel Sharif. So much so that he does not mind Gen Sharif becoming a globetrotting army chief, hobnobbing with world leaders and conducting the country’s foreign policy.

“It’s not he who’s doing that, it’s those countries who are giving him that stature. The army is the only stabilising institution in Pakistan. That is why they give importance to the military chief. Especially when they also see the degree of bad governance going on. They want to see where the stability comes from. That is why they give him importance. He should take it. He should be proud of it. Look, international relations largely depend on personalities. Agar aap nay ja kay kookro ban kay baith jana hai, to aap to kya importance milay gi.”

Emboldened by Gen Sharif’s initiatives against militancy — especially after the gruesome attack on the Army Public School in Peshawar — the Muttahida Qaumi Movement has called for the imposition of martial law in Sindh? Does Gen Musharraf think the call for martial law is reasonable and fair?

“I don’t think there should be martial law. And I have my reasons. Pakistan is facing the worst situation in its history. The economy is not doing well. Terrorism is in all the provinces. It has never been this bad. The army is a fallback force in the country. We call it in the military, a force in being. Its potential consists in being. If you use it or consume it, it’s gone. If you were to use the military, and suppose in the present situation of turmoil, they are unable to rectify the socio-economic ills of Pakistan, you’d have consumed this fallback force.

NRO deal, with the benefit of hindsight

Gen Musharraf feels bad having struck the NRO deal with former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. “I shouldn’t have done that. It impacted me very wrongly and the political realities of Pakistan. My popularity went down because of the NRO deal.”

Dismissing the assertion made by former US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice in her memoirs that she brokered a deal between Gen Musharraf and Ms Bhutto, he recalls that the NRO deal was actually aimed at “weaning away the PPP and Benazir” from the group of political parties that were agreeing on the Charter of Democracy in London.

“I met Benazir in Abu Dhabi. She had three demands. First, remove Article 58-2B [of the Constitution]. The moment she said that, I said out of the question. And the way I said it, she immediately conceded. She said alright put this aside. She demanded an end to the restriction on a person becoming a prime minister for a third time and withdrawal of corruption cases. I demanded that she wouldn’t return before the elections. She asked me when the elections would be held. I said roughly in the first or second week of Dec 2007. She said she would be able to come before New Year. And, on a lighter note, she asked me if she invited me to a New Year party, would I come. I said I would. This was the level of understanding of what she had to do.”

Gen Musharraf returned to Pakistan to discuss Ms Bhutto’s demands with his political partners, notably the Chaudhrys of Gujrat. Apparently, the veteran politicians told Gen Musharraf that if he removed the third-time prime ministership condition, he would merely confirm rumours already swirling in the country that the United States wanted Gen Musharraf to be president and Ms Bhutto to be his prime minister. They, however, had no issues with the corruption cases.

“They said that out of 11 cases of corruption against Benazir and Zardari, they have been acquitted in eight cases. They might get acquitted in the remaining three also. That got me convinced. Prime minister [Shaukat Aziz] used to attend all those meetings.”

Trial or vendetta

Gen Musharraf grimaces when he is reminded — apologetically — that former president Asif Ali Zardari almost always refers to him as a billa. However, when he is asked the reason for Mr Zardari’s animus towards him, he chuckles and says: “No reason. He has made the best of everything. I know he knows that I didn’t have Benazir assassinated, though he keeps maligning me on this issue. And the language is certainly unbecoming.”

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, however, has a valid reason to bear a grudge against Gen Musharraf. The former strongman ousted Mr Sharif in a coup in Oct 1999.

“Nawaz Sharif has a reason, but he’s taking it to an extent where it has become an issue of instability ... my trial, being hostile towards me, putting my name on the ECL [Exit Control List] ... these things are not going down well with the army ... my trial is vendetta. I am the only former head of state in Pakistan who has been to the lowest courts in the subordinate judiciary.”

Gen Musharraf’s travails will come out in the sequel to his autobiography that he is updating these days.
 
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Terrorists existed during the time of Musharraf and he went for lal masjid operation despite many being against the operation and opting for peace talks. He knew that negotiations are not understood by barbaric, it only buys them time.

The one who should be court martialed is Musharraf, he kept quite when our forces were being beheaded in Swat and Mullah Radio was in full swing to threaten civilians with their lives and property just because he had free hand from Musharraf under truce.
 
The one who should be court martialed is Musharraf, he kept quite when our forces were being beheaded in Swat and Mullah Radio was in full swing to threaten civilians with their lives and property just because he had free hand from Musharraf under truce.
Musharraf used terrorism in Kashmir, so he had to give concessions. Though Musharraf still committed the crime. The radio started in 2006 and Musharraf was out after couple of years. But Musharraf did not fear like Kayani did. He started Kargil against India and even went to his soldiers.

But Kayani was in for 6 full years as COAS. In those 6 years, the tumor grew quickly and engulfed the entire state of Pakistan, from Swat to Karachi.
 
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Musharraf used terrorism in Kashmir, so he had to give concessions.

So he sows an evil and when that evil grows he blames another for not taking care of it. Musharraf has no moral ground to point fingers at Kiyani period. Raheel after retirement can take that stance but Musharraf no, he is to be equally blamed for mess we are in today.
 
So he sows an evil and when that evil grows he blames another for not taking care of it. Musharraf has no moral ground to point fingers at Kiyani period. Raheel after retirement can take that stance but Musharraf no, he is to be equally blamed for mess we are in today.
Musharraf didn't sow the evil. You've to go back to General Zia, who brought the Ak-47 culture, freedom fighters and many other things to Pakistan.

Musharraf continued the policy, but vastly reduced it. One cannot change policy overnight. Like I said in previous comment, I still blame Musharraf. But under him, the damage was not as great as Kayani, who gave terrorists free hand.
 
Musharraf didn't sow the evil. You've to go back to General Zia, who brought the Ak-47 culture, freedom fighters and many other things to Pakistan.

Musharraf continued the policy, but vastly reduced it. One cannot change policy overnight. Like I said in previous comment, I still blame Musharraf. But under him, the damage was not as great as Kayani, who gave terrorists free hand.

One can topple the civilian government in hours but cannot change the policy such a lame excuse.

Do you believe Russia would have stopped in Afghanistan only at that time? What would have you done if you were in place of Zia? Did not PPP government support Taliban in Afghanistan? Why Zia is only to be blamed?
 
One can topple the civilian government in hours but cannot change the policy such a lame excuse.

Do you believe Russia would have stopped in Afghanistan only at that time? What would have you done if you were in place of Zia? Did not PPP government support Taliban in Afghanistan? Why Zia is only to be blamed?
One did not topple the gov't himself or alone. His officers did it for him and he had the support.

And hello, are you saying Zia was a perfect general who did not commit no crime? He's the father of the whole issue in Pakistan. Under him, madrassas went from few thousands to over hundreds of thousands, unregistered. PPP gov't did not even last the full term, both times. Like I said, just as Musharraf couldn't change the policy overnight, PPP or PML could not either. It had become Army's doctorine, to use freedom fighters. It was after many and major attacks (before, very few and small) that Musharraf started operation against these and allowed US to conduct drone strikes. After lal masjid, TTP came into its actual form. You can't just tell your thousands of freedom fighters that they're now orphans. Which is what to an extent Musharraf did and the blowback started.

Again, Zia and Musharraf are responsible. But Kayani is more responsible. Under Zia and Musharraf, nearly 30-50,000 people did not die.
 
Mush should be hanged for sending country into US war which cost Pakistan 0.1 million lives till now and 1 trillion $ damage..
 
Musharraf blames Kayani for delay in action against Taliban - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

This guy is the most scared COAS of Pakistan that I've come to known. Worse than the general who surrendered in Bangladesh. That guy surrendered over 70,000 soldiers, this guy surrendered Pakistan. He was scared for his life, because of which, tens of thousands of innocents lives were lost. He didn't want to face the risk of being attacked and scared of religious people too and thus didn't pursue operation against Taliban. So indeed he should be court martialed for all the innocent lives that were lost because of an incompetent and scared general of Pakistan.

Terrorists existed during the time of Musharraf and he went for lal masjid operation despite many being against the operation and opting for peace talks. He knew that negotiations are not understood by barbaric, it only buys them time. Kayani's inefficiency resulted in the tumor of Pakistan growing and hitting every joint of Pakistan until recent loss of nearly 150 students. Their blood is also on Kayani. We've to do the dirty laundry because someone was too scared. Another article: Kayani feared religious right’s backlash against him: Athar Abbas - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

------------------------

KARACHI: Former army chief retired Gen Pervez Musharraf believes that one of the reasons why the country’s security challenges have become almost insurmountable now is because his successor, retired Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, was too scared to take action against militants.

In an interview with Dawn on Tuesday, Gen Musharraf said that it was Gen Kayani’s own reluctance — and not poor judgement — that caused him to not launch an operation against the Taliban.

“You see, the main issue is that when a government is inactive, it requires an army chief to go and coax it into action. That’s what [Gen] Raheel has done. So either Gen Kayani was scared or too reticent or too reserved. He didn’t want to go and discuss this matter.”

‘I don’t think there should be martial law’
When this reporter pointed out that Gen Kayani must have gone to the then Pakistan Peoples Party government for an extension in his term as army chief — and the PPP government was said to have acquiesced within hours — Gen Musharraf said: “But that was for his own person. The army was clear in its views as a whole. They wanted action, even in Kayani’s days. Kayani has to be asked why he did not act [against militants]. I wouldn’t be able to comment on that. But the delay was all in that period.”

The former military ruler recalls that his government took on Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan chief Mulla Fazlullah in 2007. “We acted against him and defeated him. Peaceful elections were held in 2008. The turnout was good. The Awami National Party — and not religious parties — came to power in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. And then Fazlullah was allowed to return and set on fire 13 girls schools. He had the tourist resort in Malam Jabba torched. No action was taken till he crossed the Shangla Hills and almost blocked the Karakoram Highway. When there was international hue and cry that the militants were only 100 miles away from Islamabad, then they woke up.”

Apart from blaming Gen Kayani for his pusillanimity even when a wave of terrorism swept through the country, Gen Musharraf also feels he was let down by his successor when political adversaries thought he was vulnerable — he had taken off the all-powerful army uniform — and threatened him with an impeachment move.

Was he disappointed? “To a degree, yes. He could have helped out there. But, you see, I didn’t want to sit in the presidency as a useless president. I am not that type.” Had Gen Kayani made it clear that in a stand-off between Gen Musharraf and the PPP government, he would be neutral. “Yes.”

But Gen Musharraf seems to be quite happy with his successor’s successor, Gen Raheel Sharif. So much so that he does not mind Gen Sharif becoming a globetrotting army chief, hobnobbing with world leaders and conducting the country’s foreign policy.

“It’s not he who’s doing that, it’s those countries who are giving him that stature. The army is the only stabilising institution in Pakistan. That is why they give importance to the military chief. Especially when they also see the degree of bad governance going on. They want to see where the stability comes from. That is why they give him importance. He should take it. He should be proud of it. Look, international relations largely depend on personalities. Agar aap nay ja kay kookro ban kay baith jana hai, to aap to kya importance milay gi.”

Emboldened by Gen Sharif’s initiatives against militancy — especially after the gruesome attack on the Army Public School in Peshawar — the Muttahida Qaumi Movement has called for the imposition of martial law in Sindh? Does Gen Musharraf think the call for martial law is reasonable and fair?

“I don’t think there should be martial law. And I have my reasons. Pakistan is facing the worst situation in its history. The economy is not doing well. Terrorism is in all the provinces. It has never been this bad. The army is a fallback force in the country. We call it in the military, a force in being. Its potential consists in being. If you use it or consume it, it’s gone. If you were to use the military, and suppose in the present situation of turmoil, they are unable to rectify the socio-economic ills of Pakistan, you’d have consumed this fallback force.

NRO deal, with the benefit of hindsight

Gen Musharraf feels bad having struck the NRO deal with former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. “I shouldn’t have done that. It impacted me very wrongly and the political realities of Pakistan. My popularity went down because of the NRO deal.”

Dismissing the assertion made by former US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice in her memoirs that she brokered a deal between Gen Musharraf and Ms Bhutto, he recalls that the NRO deal was actually aimed at “weaning away the PPP and Benazir” from the group of political parties that were agreeing on the Charter of Democracy in London.

“I met Benazir in Abu Dhabi. She had three demands. First, remove Article 58-2B [of the Constitution]. The moment she said that, I said out of the question. And the way I said it, she immediately conceded. She said alright put this aside. She demanded an end to the restriction on a person becoming a prime minister for a third time and withdrawal of corruption cases. I demanded that she wouldn’t return before the elections. She asked me when the elections would be held. I said roughly in the first or second week of Dec 2007. She said she would be able to come before New Year. And, on a lighter note, she asked me if she invited me to a New Year party, would I come. I said I would. This was the level of understanding of what she had to do.”

Gen Musharraf returned to Pakistan to discuss Ms Bhutto’s demands with his political partners, notably the Chaudhrys of Gujrat. Apparently, the veteran politicians told Gen Musharraf that if he removed the third-time prime ministership condition, he would merely confirm rumours already swirling in the country that the United States wanted Gen Musharraf to be president and Ms Bhutto to be his prime minister. They, however, had no issues with the corruption cases.

“They said that out of 11 cases of corruption against Benazir and Zardari, they have been acquitted in eight cases. They might get acquitted in the remaining three also. That got me convinced. Prime minister [Shaukat Aziz] used to attend all those meetings.”

Trial or vendetta

Gen Musharraf grimaces when he is reminded — apologetically — that former president Asif Ali Zardari almost always refers to him as a billa. However, when he is asked the reason for Mr Zardari’s animus towards him, he chuckles and says: “No reason. He has made the best of everything. I know he knows that I didn’t have Benazir assassinated, though he keeps maligning me on this issue. And the language is certainly unbecoming.”

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, however, has a valid reason to bear a grudge against Gen Musharraf. The former strongman ousted Mr Sharif in a coup in Oct 1999.

“Nawaz Sharif has a reason, but he’s taking it to an extent where it has become an issue of instability ... my trial, being hostile towards me, putting my name on the ECL [Exit Control List] ... these things are not going down well with the army ... my trial is vendetta. I am the only former head of state in Pakistan who has been to the lowest courts in the subordinate judiciary.”

Gen Musharraf’s travails will come out in the sequel to his autobiography that he is updating these days.


I do not know whether he was scarred or not but he scarred Mr. Zardari a lot. Mr Zardari always had a hanging sword from this fellow. He managed an extension for himself.
 
Mush should be hanged for sending country into US war which cost Pakistan 0.1 million lives till now and 1 trillion $ damage..
It was Zia who went into US war.

Musharraf had no choice but to cooperate with the US. Otherwise, there were going to be more sanctions and risk being labeled as terrorist sponsoring state if we did not take action against the Taliban which were using Pakistani territory.

I do not know whether he was scarred or not but he scarred Mr. Zardari a lot. Mr Zardari always had a hanging sword from this fellow. He managed an extension for himself.
One time Zardari went to Dubai. I think it was around the gate scandal. He started to feel really ill.
 
It was Zia who went into US war.

Musharraf had no choice but to cooperate with the US. Otherwise, there were going to be more sanctions and risk being labeled as terrorist sponsoring state if we did not take action against the Taliban which were using Pakistani territory.


One time Zardari went to Dubai. I think it was around the gate scandal. He started to feel really ill.


I do not know but he really felt heat of Kiyani taking over and dislodge him from his position.
 
And hello, are you saying Zia was a perfect general who did not commit no crime?

You did not answer my question, what would have you done if you were in place of Zia? What I think of Zia being competent as COAS and president does not matter now. I strictly believe Bhutto bhi mar gya Zia bhi mar Gya now move on Pakistan.
 
He has no other option. US threathned to bomb pakistan to stone age.
Nothing like that he knew if he would not stand with US then he would have to leave leave Government so he stand with US and became king of country.
 
It was Zia who went into US war.

Musharraf had no choice but to cooperate with the US. Otherwise, there were going to be more sanctions and risk being labeled as terrorist sponsoring state if we did not take action against the Taliban which were using Pakistani territory.

For the 1st bold part what are we known as today now? After loosing near 60,000 lives and big time f**kng up our economy. How the world looks at us today? Who lost the most in this war?

For the second bold part are sure at that time they were using Pakistan's territory?
 
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