Kayani should be court-martialed - Even Musharraf blames Kayani for delay because Kayani was scared

[Sine Nomine]

Sanctions work. Pakistan was already effected by the sanctions imposed after the nuckes test. As a matter of fact, siding with US on on war on terror helped ease some sanctions. Correct me if i'm wrong, it was this time that we received our F16s. Otherwise we'd have said good bye to them for next many years.

Sanctions would have done no damage to Us as compared to war on terror,the development in these years would have granted us dozens of J-10's.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Musharraf used terrorism in Kashmir, so he had to give concessions.

Excuse me? Please brother don't parrot the lines used by our enemy. What terrorism are you referring to on Kashmir? Biggest terrorist in Kashmir would be those who have killed 92,000 Kashmiris since 1989 and still to this very day impose draconian rule and terror to subjugate un-armed Kashmiris yearning for freedom

But Kayani was in for 6 full years as COAS. In those 6 years, the tumor grew quickly and engulfed the entire state of Pakistan, from Swat to Karachi.

the tumor kept managing to be existing because the NATION was still sleeping and not taking the threat seriously....the NATION as well as the judiciary and media which were actually part of the problem rather than solution (I hope that is changing)

 

[Sine Nomine]

Took over an Army which until early/mid 2010 was not fully experienced enough to deal fully with counter-insurgency (as opposed to conventional war) -though this changed rather quickly through good leadership at all command levels

I personally saw COIN training during his time he was first to introduce this ops in PA..log live sir

 

[WishLivePak]

To make a major strategy decision you need broad consensus......unlike before, there is greater consensus now regarding how we combat militancy. I think in HINDSIGHT not enough was done previously especially after attack on GHQ and the back-stabbing by groups like TNSM which bombed girls schools (after the so-called "peace talks" and "cease fire" in 2008).

MY honest assessment:

Pros

-He placed huge emphasis on troops morale and on investing more on the soldiers (new uniforms, combat gear/equipment, modernization etc). Under his watch the Pakistani Army truly became a modernized and formidable fighting force.

-He was a soldier's soldier.....during Eid he would be with troops, not with family. During Rah e Nejat operation he flew in an F16 to oversee the insurgency hit areas with his own eyes (few Army Chiefs would do that)

-Supported strong institutions/democracy and political maturity, helped be a mediator when the civilians were busy being azzholes with their vendettas

-Was a reserved and calculated person....not very vocal, listened to views of others but didnt speak too much (also a con?)

Cons

-Took over an Army which until early/mid 2010 was not fully experienced enough to deal fully with counter-insurgency (as opposed to conventional war) -though this changed rather quickly through good leadership at all command levels

-Preferring to hear others talk while being quiet and chain-smoking rather than being overly vocal could be Interpreted by some as a sign of passiveness. This is up for interpretation.

-Had to deal with several 'distractions' which made his job much harder (e.g. GHQ attack, Abbotabad incident, murder of Pakistani troops @ Salala, Gayari avalanche, Major floods in 2010 etc.)

I agree. Your first para also proves my point for other posted, that PPP, PML, Musharraf had no power to change Taliban stance overnight.

And I can indeed see that Pakistani army did modernise itself. Many of the stuff cannot be acquired in short period of time, as it takes many years of research, finding best price etc before tens of thousands of items are bought.

Also indeed that Raheel Shariff is more prepared to handle the war than Kayani himself could. But I have the question or you. In a state of war, where we've lost more lives than any war with India combined, are we to blame lack of technology, modernization and so forth for being ineffective against terrorists? I've read no where (if you've, please post), where Kayani comes out to say he did not avoid attacking Taliban (going against the words of ISPR's interview who said he did avoid attacking Taliban because he was scared)?

There is a reason why US is very happy and glad with what Raheel is doing. This is something Kayani did not do and US kept saying "do more do more do more."

 

[I.R.A]

And my God, are you a literate person? Am I court martialing Kayani?

Then you should not have mentioned that in f**king header of your article.

I do not want any further to discuss anything with you, as you seem to be fond of declaring others illiterate to prove your point.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

It was Zia who went into US war.

Musharraf had no choice but to cooperate with the US. Otherwise, there were going to be more sanctions and risk being labeled as terrorist sponsoring state if we did not take action against the Taliban which were using Pakistani territory.

Pakistan joined the war to support the coalition in ousting the al qaeda....taleban is an Afghan phenomenon and was not our primary concern

 

[Zarvan]

To make a major strategy decision you need broad consensus......unlike before, there is greater consensus now regarding how we combat militancy. I think in HINDSIGHT not enough was done previously especially after attack on GHQ and the back-stabbing by groups like TNSM which bombed girls schools (after the so-called "peace talks" and "cease fire" in 2008).

MY honest assessment:

Pros

-He placed huge emphasis on troops morale and on investing more on the soldiers (new uniforms, combat gear/equipment, modernization etc). Under his watch the Pakistani Army truly became a modernized and formidable fighting force.

-He was a soldier's soldier.....during Eid he would be with troops, not with family. During Rah e Nejat operation he flew in an F16 to oversee the insurgency hit areas with his own eyes (few Army Chiefs would do that)

-Supported strong institutions/democracy and political maturity, helped be a mediator when the civilians were busy being azzholes with their vendettas

-Was a reserved and calculated person....not very vocal, listened to views of others but didnt speak too much (also a con?)

Cons

-Took over an Army which until early/mid 2010 was not fully experienced enough to deal fully with counter-insurgency (as opposed to conventional war) -though this changed rather quickly through good leadership at all command levels

-Preferring to hear others talk while being quiet and chain-smoking rather than being overly vocal could be Interpreted by some as a sign of passiveness. This is up for interpretation.

-Had to deal with several 'distractions' which made his job much harder (e.g. GHQ attack, Abbotabad incident, murder of Pakistani troops @ Salala, Gayari avalanche, Major floods in 2010 etc.)

You are forgetting from SWAT to Bannu and and South Wazristan all were cleared from Taliban under Kiyani

 

[WishLivePak]

Excuse me? Please brother don't parrot the lines used by our enemy. What terrorism are you referring to on Kashmir? Biggest terrorist in Kashmir would be those who have killed 92,000 Kashmiris since 1989 and still to this very day impose draconian rule and terror to subjugate un-armed Kashmiris yearning for freedom




the tumor kept managing to be existing because the NATION was still sleeping and not taking the threat seriously....the NATION as well as the judiciary and media which were actually part of the problem rather than solution (I hope that is changing)

Freedom fighters.

Indeed India is practicing bigger terrorism in Indian held kashmir. But let's not turn a blind eye and say Pakistan did not do anything in Indian held Kashmir.

Tumor could've been dealt with after major terrorists attack. This is how politics and military operation work. Public cannot be sleeping at every given time. Sometimes there's a wakeup call, which is the job of military and politicians to take advantage of. After the Taliban were cutting the heads of our military men, it was time for kayani to look into conducting operation. Or after Osama was killed. There were many chances, but Kayani was sleeping.

For example, after 150 students were killed, whole nation was united against terrorism. best time. Now slowly, few parties don't want to be part of the agreed deal and I'm afraid to say, we're in no shock the way we were on APC attack

Then you should not have mentioned that in f**king header of your article.

I do not want any further to discuss anything with you, as you seem to be fond of declaring others illiterate to prove your point.

And you still don't know how to read. It's different to say "Im going to court martial Kayani" and "kayani should be court martialed". Is it wrong to wish for something we cannot do?

So yes, you need to learn to read.

 

[Zarvan]

LOL

Still an illiterate person. I am not the one in power to court martial.

And do you have classified information or anyone within army saying Kayani was not scared? I've given the articles. What have you given? Nothing. So exactly, you cannot read. Go and learn to read, then come back and read the Musharraf and ISPR has to say about Kayani.

And again, learn a bit of common knowledge to know that someone like me cannot go and get Kayani court martialed. And please don't tell me you hope to see Kayani leading the country, because the way you're coming off here defending his incompetency.

Articles are proofs enough to show your mental level and Kiyani cleared SWAT and Bannu and South Wazristan and other agencies that is proof he was not scared

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Also indeed that Raheel Shariff is more prepared to handle the war than Kayani himself could.

He is one of the brain-childs of Pakistan counter-insurgency training manuals so indeed he is very well prepared on this

I've read no where (if you've, please post), where Kayani comes out to say he did not avoid attacking Taliban (going against the words of ISPR's interview who said he did avoid attacking Taliban because he was scared)?

it was not ISPR that said that, it was a retired DG of ISPR (Maj. Gen. A. Abbas) who said that in his own capacity as a retired officer/civilian

There is a reason why US is very happy and glad with what Raheel is doing. This is something Kayani did not do and US kept saying "do more do more do more."

Because now more Pakistanis have accepted this as our war which we are fighting for PAKISTAN and not for nobody else....people can't under-estimate how NECESSARY it is for the armed forces to have political and popular support. In Afghanistan the American troops' moral sunk to their lowest once the American public started doubting the effectiveness or reason for their war in Afghanistan. Same was the case decades ago in Viet Nam when there was outright opposition against the US military and its actions there.

Soldiers dont ask for blind praise but an Army of soldiers requires the country's backing and national support - as they put their own lives in danger to fight for that country.....it took us longer than it should have for the nation to fully stand by and back the military in this fight against terrorism/proxy war

 

[WishLivePak]

He is one of the brain-childs of Pakistan counter-insurgency training manuals so indeed he is very well prepared on this



it was not ISPR that said that, it was a retired DG of ISPR (Maj. Gen. A. Abbas) who said that in his own capacity as a retired officer




Because now more Pakistanis have accepted this as our war which we are fighting for PAKISTAN and not for nobody else....people can't under-estimate how NECESSARY it is for the armed forces to have political and popular support. In Afghanistan the American troops' moral sunk to their lowest once the American public started doubting the effectiveness or reason for their war in Afghanistan. Same was the case decades ago in Viet Nam when there was outright opposition against the US military and its actions there.

Soldiers dont ask for blind praise but an Army of soldiers requires the country's backing and national support - as they put their own lives in danger to fight for that country.....it took us longer than it should have for the nation to fully stand by and back the military in this fight against terrorism/proxy war

My bad. Sorry for the confusion about mixing up the ISPR and correcting me.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Freedom fighters.

Indeed India is practicing bigger terrorism in Indian held kashmir. But let's not turn a blind eye and say Pakistan did not do anything in Indian held Kashmir.

If we did enough then you would have read about a lot more dead indian soldiers @ LoC.....Pakistan's role in proxy war in occupied Kashmir has been negligible. Most of the times you hear about Kashmiri freedom fighters fighting the occupation forces of india - those fighters are doing it on their own without our support. They aren't even that well equipped.

Public cannot be sleeping at every given time. Sometimes there's a wakeup call, which is the job of military and politicians to take advantage of. After the Taliban were cutting the heads of our military men, it was time for kayani to look into conducting operation.

For example, after 150 students were killed, whole nation was united against terrorism. best time. Now slowly, few parties don't want to be part of the agreed deal and I'm afraid to say, we're in no shock the way we were on APC attack

i can't argue with that....but better late than never i guess


AGAIN - you need a national consensus - as you do need consensus in the military or consensus in parliament.

And you still don't know how to read. It's different to say "Im going to court martial Kayani" and "kayani should be court martialed". Is it wrong to wish for something we cannot do?

So yes, you need to learn to read.

Nothing of the sort will happen and it doesnt need to happen. He did no acts to harm Pakistan, he served his country in the end and i wouldnt question his Patriotism.

 

[I.R.A]

And you still don't know how to read. It's different to say "Im going to court martial Kayani" and "kayani should be court martialed". Is it wrong to wish for something we cannot do?

So yes, you need to learn to read.

You can wish whatever you want to and keep dreaming, and if you are that good at reading just read the below and try to understand your worth

"If you so f**kng wish to get Kiyani Court Martial then ask your bull shit self that do you have balls to do so, otherwise take your wish with you and sell it somewhere else."

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

My bad. Sorry for the confusion about mixing up the ISPR and correcting me.

Dont apologize bhai I was just pointing that out

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is amazing isn't it----this is the guy----Kiyani----that I sent him a letter after the salala check post incidence---told him to put his .45 in his mouth and blow his brains out---told him that he was the biggest enemy of Pakistan and never in the history of of warfare an ally nation been humiliated as much as under his command because of his cowardice---.

There was a lot more stuff in it---the repy I got was not to come to Pakistan or I would suffer---the same letter was sent to Gen Pasha as well----. Both of them were furious at the deliverer----.

I told you guys so many years ago about his cowardice---so much stuff I could know about these guys that I don't want to know----.

Kiyani and Pasha are two generals that should be hanged, executed .