Kaveri Engine Project update

[Lord Of Gondor]

@MARCOS98-Did the third photo in post#313 read Balasya moolam "vignanam"?It is vignaanam!!!Fcukers ruin Sanskrit!

 

[Black Widow]

Reverse engineering by India !!!!

Like many Indian trolls here claimed that "reverse engineering" = "copying" !!!

form where you pick that quote???? What the heck "A Bit of Reverse Engineering" Means??? Reverse Engineering/Stealing technology is not Bad if you are doing it with your enemy....

its bad when you are back-stabbing your ally... Imagine you have good relation with somalia . you sold JF17 to them, they copied your machine and start selling it Namibia, uganda, India and other country... How will you feel??? Back-stabbed???

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

The authors of this article have not provided sources.So,till they provide some,it's unsubstantiated B.S.......

 

[notsuperstitious]

Reverse engineering by India !!!!

Like many Indian trolls here claimed that "reverse engineering" = "copying" !!!

Takes one to know one.

The logical fallacy in your statement is too subtle for one though. Even if what the magazine states is true, how does that negate the claim that reverse engineering = copying???

Overeager to defend the motherland, China?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Reverse engineering by India !!!!

Like many Indian trolls here claimed that "reverse engineering" = "copying" !!!

Ranged against India’s faltering attempt is the Chinese past, which has made a virtue of reverse engineering.

From the same source you posted.

 

[sancho]

IAF still insists on Indigenous kaveri-MK2

Indian air force as per our sources is still insisting that GTRE Proposed joint venture with France’s Snecma Moteurs on re-design and re-development of Kaveri-MK2 to be done locally by GTRE it self ,which will help the company and india master new generation of turbo fan engine technology .

GTRE which has proposed to carry out a joint venture with France’s Snecma Moteurs for development of Kaveri MK-2 which will be based on current Kaveri K-10 and French M-88-3 engines ,while Indian air force is clearly opposing such move , Kaveri MK-2 will be powering ADA’s AMCA 5th Generation fighter jet program .

GTRE has build nine prototypes of Kaveri and four prototypes of Kaveri’s core (Kabini) have been built. About 1,975 hours of ground-testing and altitude-testing has been conducted on the Kaveri and its cores. currently Kaveri K-9 has been doing flight trials on a modified IL-76 test bed aircraft in at Russia’s Gromov Flight Research Institute.

Kaveri engine has already been delinked from the Tejas fighter jet program , when GTRA failed to rectify Problems associated with the engines , Kaveri was supposed to power LCA PV-1 way back in 2003 ,but repeated failures in ground test and in high altttiute test in Russia forced ADA and IAF to look out for American engines .

But GTRE is pushing for Kaveri engines to be used in Tejas MK-1 when engine change is due for the fighters ,but sources have told idrw.org that air force is not keen on them since air force is still to begin inducting Tejas MK-1 in their fleet and it will be more then 10 years for the engine change to occur which occurs in normal course of time in every jet .

GTRE after successful rounds of test flights on IL-76 test bed aircraft wants to integrate it with Tejas Prototypes aircrafts ,first flight of Kaveri powered Tejas will not happen before end of 2012 as per source , and Tejas MK-2 will be powered by more power full Ge F-414IN engines which have higher thrust of 98kn , while Kaveri in its current form with after burners can hit 81kn because of which it cannot be integrated with changed requirements of Indian air forces requirements for Tejas aircraft which lead to development of Mark-2 Variant .

While in other end ADA is not quite sure if GTRE will be able to deliver Kaveri Mk-2 in time , to integrate it with AMCA TD aircrafts which will be rolled out in 2018 and proposed first flight later in a year , ADA seems to be banking on Ge’s F-414IN engines which it will be working with to integrate it with Tejas MK-2 ,AMCA will be requiring a 90 to 100 kn thrust engines with thrust vectoring nozzles .

It seems like History will repeat it self all again , Vinayak shetti (admin of www.lca-tejas.org) is confident that AMCA TD and Prototypes will be powered by American Ge Engines , he also added that not every one is convinced on the Joint venture and main opposition is coming from customer it self , failure of GTRE to force head with the joint venture which MOD is still negotiating the commercial aspects of a contract will not make it impossible for test and verification of the engine in time for AMCA TD aircrafts .

GTRE under this new joint venture will be using M-88-3 core and K-10 to co-develop a 100 kn thrust engine to power AMCA , GTRE has already carried out Research on TVC Nozzles and plans to integrate them in this new engine too with the help of French , while all agency working on AMCA Project doesn’t seems to be working on perfect synch.

IAF still insists on Indigenous kaveri-MK2 | idrw.org


Does this make sense to anyone? IAF denied Kaveri engine for LCA, because they are not happy with the results GTRE achieved, but now wants them to improve Kaveri on their own?
But it's interesting that GTRE already has carried out Research on TVC with French help, doesn't this mean that a co-developed Kaveri - Snecma engine for LCA could have TVC in future as well? Isn't this showing that a JV with the French could have good potential especially for the LCA?
I really don't get why we always limit ourselfs to own developments instead of JV / co-developments, that have more potential and less risks of delays?

 

[SpArK]

IAF still insists on Indigenous kaveri-MK2 | idrw.org


Does this make sense to anyone? IAF denied Kaveri engine for LCA, because they are not happy with the results GTRE achieved, but now wants them to improve Kaveri on their own?
But it's interesting that GTRE already has carried out Research on TVC with French help, doesn't this mean that a co-developed Kaveri - Snecma engine for LCA could have TVC in future as well? Isn't this showing that a JV with the French could have good potential especially for the LCA?
I really don't get why we always limit ourselfs to own developments instead of JV / co-developments, that have more potential and less risks of delays?

Hope the news is false. Otherwise i see no improvement or any development without JV.

 

[sancho]

Hope the news is false. Otherwise i see no improvement or any development without JV.

It was reported before that it's mainly MoD who is pushing and re-considering the JV with Snecma, after that possibility was turned down by IAF in the engine competition for LCA MK2. Although I could understand it then, with the point that we need a ready and proven engine to get LCA production started, I can't understand why IAF still hopes on GTRE, that obviously failed in their attempt to develop an engine alone.

 

[JPUSINVNSCK]

Who can give some detail about this engine?Does it contain TVC?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Who can give some detail about this engine?Does it contain TVC?

no it does not contain TVC....and you can go through the earlier pages for specs....

 

[kingdurgaking]

IAF still insists on Indigenous kaveri-MK2 | idrw.org


Does this make sense to anyone? IAF denied Kaveri engine for LCA, because they are not happy with the results GTRE achieved, but now wants them to improve Kaveri on their own?
But it's interesting that GTRE already has carried out Research on TVC with French help, doesn't this mean that a co-developed Kaveri - Snecma engine for LCA could have TVC in future as well? Isn't this showing that a JV with the French could have good potential especially for the LCA?
I really don't get why we always limit ourselfs to own developments instead of JV / co-developments, that have more potential and less risks of delays?

One of the reason why IAF is emphasizing on own R&D for kaveri is because of the royalty which we have to pay life long and any further improvement on engines will be covered as part of the royalty and it seems it is too steep... Though i may stand with IAF on this but they should be ready to spend lot of money on kaveri to be improved which they are not ready...

And for TVC it is indigenous effort(may be the software) and the integration may be a JV i guess something to do with FADEC... if the JV goes through

 

[sudhir007]

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Well, i dont think at present going at own is good idea. It will delay the AMCA as it happened in the case of LCA. Let the AMCA/LCA-II start flying with JV product. We have all the knowledge of kaveri, and we will gain alot for the proposed JV. All this can be used to develop a highly advanced engine for future jets if we want to have indigenous later on.

 

[december]

from what i understand the kaveri engine will not meet the thrust required for Tejus MK2...............It will be only useful for tejusMK1 and the IAF is not planning to induct in great numbers..........Someone correct me if i am wrong


Then GTRE should find urgent partner for co-devlopment & JV and the IAF should provide maximum support..........This expertise & experiance gained can be used for future.............

 

[sancho]

from what i understand the kaveri engine will not meet the thrust required for Tejus MK2...............It will be only useful for tejusMK1 and the IAF is not planning to induct in great numbers..........Someone correct me if i am wrong


Then GTRE should find urgent partner for co-devlopment & JV and the IAF should provide maximum support..........This expertise & experiance gained can be used for future.............

The Kaveri engine K9 (around 81kN) does not meet the requirements, not even for LCA MK1, that's why we went with US engines in the prototypes and for the serial produced MK1 long ago. GTRE and MoD now wants the Kaveri - Snecma engine K10 (90 - 100kN), to replace the US engines in LCA during MLU, possibly for further LCA orders and in future for the AMCA.
The idea of a co-development is available for a long time, but IAF refuesed it so far and the whole LCA development was dreaming about an indigenous engine, which is one of the main reasons for the delays. Imo there is no point in further dreaming, but we should do anything to get the fighter and the techs working as soon as possible. If that means we have to search for partners (which are available), we must go for it, because any further delay will delay and reduce the potential of LCA.That on the other hand means, we must buy more foreign fighters, instead of having a higher indigenous content of the fleet.