Kashmiris get boost from Kosovo independence

[Spring Onion]

heheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


i justify killing 35 indians if we could mve the world opinion at that time.

USA was pro pakistan and we were facing the wrath of cold war...2)Kargil helped india.India knowlingly let pakistan intrude and then we got the world sympathy
3)This was necessary."kuch bada pane ke liye kuch khona bi padta hai"

So you accept that India does kill its own people to get sympathy of the world. ???

Thank you for being truthful

4)RAW is now on equal footing with ISI.Do u know that ISI was behind mumbai bomb blast

No i dont but i do know that ISI has also trained a Monkey which was caught by Indian police

Mumbai train blast was aided by ISI

5)So India RAW did the samjhauta train blast.Its all TIT for TAT

Yes Indian fanatics burnt innocent Pakistanis and Indians inside samjhauta express.

nothing new for Indian brutalities

and ISI (As it was difficult to intrude into kashmir for terrorists),so they started using Bngladesh,nepal(both country in political turmoil,keep fighting among themselves).

Poor Bangladeshis are being killed by Indians for not merging into India.

India meddle in Nepal to install puppet politicians replacing the King who was recently not much sidding with India

 

[trueindian]

So you accept that India does kill its own people to get sympathy of the world. ???

Thank you for being truthful

you havnt read my full message.
we were already losing in kashmir.USA ws anti india.Russia was 2 weak to help india.ISI supported terrorists had 100-500 base camps and we were facing big trouble At UNO and USA was pro pak.

UK ws anti india..

China was anti india

We hd a weak russia and normal france who couldn help us a lot...


we dont mind killing 35 at that time clinton was visting to mobilize wrds opinion once Terrorists were killing 10000 in a year..

No i dont but i do know that ISI has also trained a Monkey which was caught by Indian police

havent heard of it...

Yes Indian fanatics burnt innocent Pakistanis and Indians inside samjhauta express.

nothing new for Indian brutalities

nothing wrong !!!

"Offense is the best defense".

Poor Bangladeshis are being killed by Indians for not merging into India.

we dont want2 merge bangladesh...No good 4 us....


No resources,no economy..it has only floods and dense population..

there are already 5 crore bangladeshi and we want2 flush them out of india...

India meddle in Nepal to install puppet politicians replacing the King who was recently not much sidding with India

Nepalis are 2 crrrupt..They themselves keep fighting..its public who wants king to be out...India is ready to deal with anyone who is in power..

But Maoist and other party dont want king ..so we respect their soverignty...

 

[Spring Onion]

you havnt read my full message.
we were already losing in kashmir.USA ws anti india.Russia was 2 weak to help india.ISI supported terrorists had 100-500 base camps and we were facing big trouble At UNO and USA was pro pak.

UK ws anti india..

China was anti india

We hd a weak russia and normal france who couldn help us a lot...

we dont mind killing 35 at that time clinton was visting to mobilize wrds opinion

So Indians do not mind killing own people that too Poor Sikhs to mobilize World opinion.
The situation is not much changed.

havent heard of it...

and let me post it for you

nothing wrong !!!
"Offense is the best defense".

So you are saying agains that India burnt scores of innocent Pakistanis and Indians inside Samjhota Express for another cunningness to mould the world opinion.

there are already 5 crore bangladeshi and we want2 flush them out of india..

.
Flush out by killing them at the hands of BSF??

Nepalis are 2 crrrupt..They themselves keep fighting..

..

a while ago you were saying Pakistan makes them fighting themeselves

But Maoist and other party dont want king ..so we respect their soverignty...

Offocurse Moist being funded by India to carry out terrorist activities inside Nepal and create unrest. If India wont support them who will

 

[trueindian]

So Indians do not mind killing own people that too Poor Sikhs to mobilize World opinion.
The situation is not much changed.

well credit went to pakistan ISI..it was a warning 2 ISI...if they dont interfere ,we wont blame them..

and let me post it for you

were u the one who trained those monkey??

So you are saying agains that India burnt scores of innocent Pakistanis and Indians inside Samjhota Express for another cunningness to mould the world opinion.

.

we had 2 sacrifice few indians...it ws to counter ISI.

Flush out by killing them at the hands of BSF??

..

we should ........but Bangladeshis are everywhere !!!diff 2 find out in 1.1 billion people

a while ago you were saying Pakistan makes them fighting themeselves

i didnt say that pak is helping them..i told while Nepalis are fighting among themselve,law and order situation in nepal has worsened,which helps ISI to use nepal to carry out operation in india..

Offocurse Moist being funded by India to carry out terrorist activities inside Nepal and create unrest. If India wont support them who will

i got 2 know that u r a reporter!!

please read some nepal news...

u ll find maiost chief "prachanda "nd his part mates always give anti india cmments.....


INfact King was pro india...

bt i told that india hs2 deal with anyone wjo is in power..

 

[Samudra]

we dont mind killing 35 at that time clinton was visting to mobilize wrds opinion once Terrorists were killing 10000 in a year..

Sorry buddy, the killing was carried out by terrorists.
And these kind of allegations are nothing new against our Army. Besides...no amount of boost or horlicks these guys get from Kosovo is going to help any Kashmiri get any more independence.

True Indian - you're a true Indian.

 

[Spring Onion]

Sorry buddy, the killing was carried out by terrorists.
And these kind of allegations are nothing new against our Army. Besides...no amount of boost or horlicks these guys get from Kosovo is going to help any Kashmiri get any more independence.

True Indian - you're a true Indian.

Read it again dear. The poor 35 Sikhs were killed by India itself on the eve of visit of Clinton to get attention of the world as usual as India does so by planting bombs in own land whenever there is some high profile visitor to India is coming up.


These murders take their toll on Kashmiri tolerance


Pankaj Mishra: how can the region's Muslims ever trust the Indian government?

Monday July 22, 2002
The Guardian

On March 20 2000, a few hours before Bill Clinton arrived on his first official visit to India, unidentified gunmen wearing Indian army fatigues shot dead 35 Sikh civilians in the Kashmiri village of Chitti-singhpura.

The Hindu nationalists who dominate India's central government blamed Pakistan-based Muslim militants. A day after Clinton's departure, the Indian government announced that the Pakistani murderers of the Sikhs had been killed in a military operation in a remote hilly village of Kashmir called Panchalthan. The next day, the Indian newspapers carried black and white photographs issued by the government of the partially charred bodies in Indian army fatigues.


The Pakistanis were quickly buried; so it seemed was the whole matter. But a few days later some Kashmiri villagers discovered, near the graves of the five alleged terrorists, the personal effects of several of their relatives who had been kidnapped from their homes soon after the killing of the Sikhs. Their demand that the corpses be exhumed and identified was initially rejected by Farooq Abdullah, the chief minister of India-ruled Kashmir, and an ally of the Hindu nationalists. Protests and demonstrations erupted in the region. Abdullah finally ordered a public exhuming after the police fired upon and killed nine people in a procession of Kashmiri villagers walking to a government office to press their demands.
The faces on the exhumed corpses were found badly mutilated. But the local villagers had little trouble in identifying them. At that moment it seemed clear that Indian security officials had kidnapped and killed five Kashmiri civilians. But Dr Abdullah refused to charge anyone with murder until DNA samples taken from the dead men were matched with those of their supposed relatives.

The turnover of atrocities is brisk in Kashmir. The DNA tests seemed to have been forgotten until March this year, when the Times of India, India's leading newspaper, revealed their results. Apparently, the results had been officially sent to Kashmir the year before by a laboratory in Hyderabad but were sup-pressed by the local government, because they exposed a clumsy attempt by Indian officials to fudge the samples taken from the relatives of the five murdered men.

This dismal story of state violence and deception is by no means unusual in Kashmir. Two weeks ago, a report in the Indian Express described how three so-called "militant infiltrators" who had been killed at the Kashmir border by Indian soldiers were local civilians. Such accounts show that while it is important for General Musharraf to end all Pakistani sponsorship of violence in India, the Hindu nationalist government of India has to do a lot more to earn the trust of the majority of Muslims who live in the valley of Kashmir.

India can draw some comfort from the fact that most Kashmiri Muslims distrust Pakistan no less than they dislike the hundreds of thousands of Indian soldiers who make the valley of Kashmir the most heavily militarised place in the world. Kashmiris cherish the traditionally distinct cultural identity of the valley, where folk Hinduism has long mingled with Sufi Islam. Mahatma Gandhi, during the bloody partition of India in 1947, had praised Kashmiris for holding on to their tradition of tolerant multiculturalism: a tradition only recently undermined by the modern nationalist ideologies of India and Pakistan.

In both 1948 and 1965, Pakistani adventurers failed to incite Kashmiri Muslims into an anti-India rebellion. It was in the late 1980s and early 90s that the underreported brutalities of Indian rule and the lack of international sympathy made many Kashmiri Muslims look to Pakistan for succour. Islamist army officers in Pakistan provided money, arms and training to young Kashmiri men. Ordinary Kashmiris offered shelter and sympathy to Pakistan-backed militants. Tens of thousands of Muslim mourners once attended the funerals in Kashmir of Pakistani militants killed by Indian security forces. Few Kashmiris could have known then that they were being enlisted into a Pakistani Islamist fantasy of wresting Kashmir from India and seizing power in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Kashmiri Muslims grew wary of Pakistan once Pakistani militants who wished to co-opt Kashmir into Pakistan began to steadily sideline, even kill, Kashmiris fighting for a state independent of both India and Pakistan. Kashmiris also resented the restrictions on women, among other fundamentalist ideas, that many of the Pakistani militants tried to impose by fatwa upon them.

They would probably be very happy to be free of the fanatics from Pakistan. But they are unlikely to give up their own, overwhelmingly indigenous, struggle against Indian rule. It is not clear how the Hindu nationalists will respond. A few weeks ago, they saw their shrewdly calibrated threat of attacking Pakistan work very well. Not many people in India believed that they would go to war. Their rhetoric was largely aimed at western governments; and it was in line with the new doctrine underpinning the ongoing "war on terrorism": that nations or governments that encourage or harbour terrorists invite violent retaliation.

The US and the EU forced Musharraf to act to prevent infiltration of militants across the border with India. But there are reportedly already more than 2,500 militants in the valley of Kashmir. The killing last week of 27 civilians in Jammu shows that violence in Kashmir won't cease any time soon. And Musharraf now looks increasingly vulnerable to the Islamists who see him as an agent of Amer ica; and doubts about his ability to control militant groups in Pakistan have grown.

In any case, the Indian government has to show that it is interested in doing more about peace in Kashmir than just isolating or destabilising Pakistan. Apart from scaling back its military build-up on the border and within the valley, it has to open a dialogue not just with Pakistan but also with the alienated majority of Kashmiri Muslims. Otherwise, the elections planned in Kashmir in October will seem staged for the benefit of western audiences.

However, winning over Kashmiri Muslims doesn't seem a high priority for the Hindu nationalists who have long expressed a frank ideological animosity towards Muslims and Islam in general - something underlined in the Human Rights Watch report on the government-assisted massacre in March this year of over 1,000 Muslims in the western Indian state of Gujarat.

The question raised most often during the weeks of hectic western diplomacy, when a catastrophic war in south Asia seemed imminent, was whether India can trust Pakistan, or vice versa. Perhaps, not. But the bigger question is how can Kashmiri Muslims learn to trust a government which often seems to hold on to their land only through brute military force - a question that, war or no war, the Hindu nationalists will have to answer persuasively.

Pankaj Mishra is the author of The Romantics (Picador).

Pankaj Mishra: these murders take their toll on Kashmiri tolerance | World news | The Guardian[/QUOTE]

 

[Malang]

Such accounts show that while it is important for General Musharraf to end all Pakistani sponsorship of violence in India....


India can draw some comfort from the fact that most Kashmiri Muslims distrust Pakistan no less than they dislike the hundreds of thousands of Indian soldiers who make the valley of Kashmir the most heavily militarised place in the world.


Kashmiris cherish the traditionally distinct cultural identity of the valley, where folk Hinduism has long mingled with Sufi Islam.


In both 1948 and 1965, Pakistani adventurers failed to incite Kashmiri Muslims into an anti-India rebellion.


Islamist army officers in Pakistan provided money, arms and training to young Kashmiri men. Ordinary Kashmiris offered shelter and sympathy to Pakistan-backed militants.


Tens of thousands of Muslim mourners once attended the funerals in Kashmir of Pakistani militants killed by Indian security forces. Few Kashmiris could have known then that they were being enlisted into a Pakistani Islamist fantasy of wresting Kashmir from India and seizing power in Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Kashmiri Muslims grew wary of Pakistan once Pakistani militants who wished to co-opt Kashmir into Pakistan began to steadily sideline, even kill, Kashmiris fighting for a state independent of both India and Pakistan.


Kashmiris also resented the restrictions on women, among other fundamentalist ideas, that many of the Pakistani militants tried to impose by fatwa upon them.They would probably be very happy to be free of the fanatics from Pakistan.


The US and the EU forced Musharraf to act to prevent infiltration of militants across the border with India. But there are reportedly already more than 2,500 militants in the valley of Kashmir. The killing last week of 27 civilians in Jammu shows that violence in Kashmir won't cease any time soon.


And Musharraf now looks increasingly vulnerable to the Islamists who see him as an agent of America; and doubts about his ability to control militant groups in Pakistan have grown.


In any case, the Indian government has to show that it is interested in doing more about peace in Kashmir than just isolating or destabilising Pakistan.


Pankaj Mishra: these murders take their toll on Kashmiri tolerance | World news | The Guardian

Wow.. interesting points thanks Jana.. as I have said Kashmiris are getting a raw deal from both India and Pakistan...

 

[Vinod2070]

Jana, now that the Jehadis have conclusively turned on the Pakistan army and ISI (and of course the civilians), it is amusing to see that some people still support them.

If they can murder people in Pakistani mosques and cantonements and markets, why is it so difficult for them to murder unarmed civilians in India (which they have been doing for decades).

They are a menace to the world and to Pakistan itself most of all! They have shown their color in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Chechnya (by murdering school children!), Iraq, Darfur, Philippines and countless other places around the world. There was a chilling news from Thailand too recenly.

 

[Vinod2070]

Its just a report you are quoting!

What makes it so credible when you routinely descredit reports in reputed international magazines like Newsweek, Economist and Time. Just that it is Anti-India!

There are many disgruntled Indians who spit out such idiotic stuff. They should not be taken so seriously, you know.

If the same guy tomorrow writes something Anti-Pakistan or Anti-Islam, you won't waste a second in calling him a biased Indian, would you?

 

[Samudra]

Read it again dear. The poor 35 Sikhs were killed by India itself on the eve of visit of Clinton to get attention of the world as usual as India does so by planting bombs in own land whenever there is some high profile visitor to India is coming up.

Stop being silly. Repeatedly parroting a report that simply alleges massacre is nothing new to us. What conclusive proof does the damn report offer? An article full of bile heaped and heaped until the stinch is unbearable.


Besides, did you even care to read the full article? It says you guys support and arm terrorist bastards. Did you read the authors opinion about Islamic 'fantasy' induced into the heads of Kashmiri youth ?

Jana, you've just scored a self-goal by quoting and lending credence to an author who knows ****. So whats new, sweetheart?

 

[Malang]

If the same guy tomorrow writes something Anti-Pakistan or Anti-Islam, you won't waste a second in calling him a biased Indian, would you?

Well he has.. in fact if you read my post above I have quoted a list of statements in which he "trashes" Pakistan (esp the fact Kashmiris are disgruntled with Pakistan)...

 

[Vinod2070]

Well he has.. in fact if you read my post above I have quoted a list of statements in which he "trashes" Pakistan (esp the fact Kashmiris are disgruntled with Pakistan)...

Well in the part about the Pakistani support to the terrorists, he seems to be right. It has been well documented. Now that the terrorists have turned back on their previous mentors, the hope is that this will not happen in future.

 

[COBener]

Independence of Kashmir is the best choice for Pakistanis,and Kashmir citizens. No one of problematic regions can join to another state becouse :

Kosovo declared Independence, not joined into "Great Albania".
Northern Cyprus Turkish Republic not joined into Turkey.
Republika Srpska in Bosnia also demands Independence,but not joining into Serbia.
Nagorno Karabakh demands Independence, not joining to Armenia (De Jure the place of Azarbaijan)

So its same for Kashmir. Independent Kashmir de facto will be "Inside of Pakistan".