Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[syedtalha]

Prem shankar jha... that INDIA TODAY guy... i'd suggest deleting this article... extremely biased.. i'm a kashmiri myself & i'm telling you all he says is a peice of bullshit..

 

[DavyJones]

syedtalha - last i checked Srinagar was in India and not in Kashmir. Btw the article was very informative. Moderate leaders are being attacked in Kashmir and no one raises their voice against militant goons who do these heinous acts. If this was an army operation the streets would have erupted in protest. Hypocrites!

 

[deckingraj]

There is no proof regarding how much support the Hurriyat. IMHO they can get maybe 30% of the votes in the Valley (and the % will be lower if you consider the state as a whole).

Omar Abduallah once on a NDTV talk show(against Barkha Dutt) very candidly said that there were more people in a rally called by Separatists than the number of people who came to listen to me and my father....Anyways you are absolutely right that there is no proof...As far as the valley is concerned even if we go by 30% then its a huge number of people that we are talking about.....How many fought for Tilangana??? Anyways that's not the point i am making...The point i am making is that we need to sove the problem on our side and ensure that talks with Hurriyat reaches it logical conclusion....

They should contest elections and establish their credibility.

Then i am afraid you haven't understood their demands..fighting elections undermines their case....However there is a welcome change...Sajjad Lone did that and lost against National Conference...This kind of gives us an inclination of the mood in the valley...However there are still enough people who support Hurriyat there by making it imperative for GOI to reach some sort of consensus with them...I think More Autonomy for Kashmir is a reasonable resolution that can be sell across...

Indian Election 2009: Sajjad Lone for polls

If GoI gives in to blackmail from an entity whose credibility is not established then that can become an election issue.

I disagree....Half of india do not care about what's going in Kashmir...Other half is too tired off this issue causing so much civilian/security personnel losses that they will accept any resolution with both hands as far as GOI ensures there it do not compromise even on single inch of boundary....what you think???

 

[deckingraj]

If this was an army operation the streets would have erupted in protest. Hypocrites!

well there are two aspects to it..First mine and the second one i learnt in the forum(through some member)

- You got to understand the mood there....There is so much anger against armed forces which is exploited very well by propagandist....However GOI has awaken and thanks to the lull in militancy is slimming the presence of Defence Forces...

The one that i learnt

- Defence forces/GOI is an entity against which you can demonstrate and achieve some tangible result...Terrorist are represented by none and thus whom are you going to protests against???

 

[DavyJones]

@deckingraj-
The issue of Kashmir can only be resolved within the India constitution - unfortunately Article 377 has led to a lack of integration of Kashmir with RoI. We need to scrap this Article-move more people who work and don't protest into Kashmir. Maybe not the way China has done in Tibet but close.

 

[deckingraj]

@deckingraj-
The issue of Kashmir can only be resolved within the India constitution - unfortunately Article 377 has led to a lack of integration of Kashmir with RoI. We need to scrap this Article-move more people who work and don't protest into Kashmir. Maybe not the way China has done in Tibet but close.

well i respect your POV however with all due respect differ from you....You cannot force people against their wishes...You can only convince them by talking to them and yes within the Indian Constitution......Now when it comes to Kashmir the problem is super complex...There is Pakistan - China - Some but significant section of Kashmiris'and GOI...thus by simply saying that scrap Article 377 and stop their protests, give exta benefits to people who are pro-india(in other words discriminate)is not going to help....This will alienate more people and they will again take up arms again(remember some of these hurriyat leaders were once Hard core terrorists)....In the end i would say complex situation which are as complex as kashmir is needs out of the box solutions...

 

[Halaku Khan]

Omar Abduallah once on a NDTV talk show(against Barkha Dutt) very candidly said that there were more people in a rally called by Separatists than the number of people who came to listen to me and my father....Anyways you are absolutely right that there is no proof...As far as the valley is concerned even if we go by 30% then its a huge number of people that we are talking about.....How many fought for Tilangana??? Anyways that's not the point i am making...The point i am making is that we need to sove the problem on our side and ensure that talks with Hurriyat reaches it logical conclusion....

Omar Abdullah has been wrong in the past. He was predicting that the election turnout would be poor, but he was taken aback by the enthusiastic response of the people, defying the violent boycott call of the separatists.

Yes, there are a large number of people who have sometimes come out for emotive rallies, but that doesn't prove anything. 99.9% of the population did not attend those rallies.

Sajjad Lone is the most credible person in the separatist camp. He is the only one who has had the guts to face the people in an election. He definitely has some support, but it was not enough to save his security deposit.

Then i am afraid you haven't understood their demands..fighting elections undermines their case....However there is a welcome change...Sajjad Lone did that and lost against National Conference...This kind of gives us an inclination of the mood in the valley...However there are still enough people who support Hurriyat there by making it imperative for GOI to reach some sort of consensus with them...I think More Autonomy for Kashmir is a reasonable resolution that can be sell across...

Indian Election 2009: Sajjad Lone for polls

I know that the Hurriyat has a problem with the Indian constitution. But they can contest elections and work within the system to change the constitution. The constitution has been amended many times. Right now they are people whose credibility has not been proven.

The situation in India is not like in "Azad" Kashmir, where parties like JKLF are banned from contesting in elections.

I disagree....Half of india do not care about what's going in Kashmir...Other half is too tired off this issue causing so much civilian/security personnel losses that they will accept any resolution with both hands as far as GOI ensures there it do not compromise even on single inch of boundary....what you think???

I think people definitely care, as was demonstrated by the response at the time of the Kargil war.

There may be some merit in the Musharraf-Manmohan proposals, but it's difficult to say anything until more details come out. In any case, I think that post-Musharraf, the Pakistan Army is against those proposals.

A basic problem is that the moment the Hurriyat people try to take a more realistic approach to the problem, the Pakistan-based terrorists put a bullet through their skulls:

As he battles for his life in hospital the names and faces of some of his predecessors flit through my mind: Mirwaiz Maulvi Mohammad Farouq, gunned down on May 21, 1990; HN Wanchoo, the dauntless campaigner for human rights killed on December 5, 1992; Dr Abdul Ahad Guru, the eminent cardiologist, killed on March 31, 1993; Qazi Nissar assassinated on June 20, 1994; Abdul Ghani Lone on May 21 2002: Abdul Majid Dar shot dead on March 23, 2003; Mirwaiz Umar Farouq’s uncle Maulvi Mushtaq on May 29, 2004; the brother of Professor Abdul Ghani Butt, and now the dastardly attempt to kill Fazal Qureshi. Others, such as Butt himself and Shahid-ul-Islam, spokesman of Mirwaiz’s Awami Action Front, have narrowly escaped assassins’ grenades and bullets.

 

[Omar1984]

The presence of Indian soldiers in Kashmir has long been a major source of tension in the region


SRINAGAR, India — Sixty people were hurt on Friday as police in Indian Kashmir clashed with demonstrators in the region's summer capital Srinagar, police and doctors said.

Police fired tear gas and live rounds to disperse hundreds of anti-India protesters.

Forty demonstrators and 20 policemen were injured, police and doctors said. Among the injured was a young boy who sustained a bullet wound.

The demonstrations were in support of a strike call by hardline separatist leader Syed Ali Geelani to protest the "illegal occupation of land by the Indian army" in Kashmir.

Geelani led thousands of Kashmiris during one of the biggest demonstrations of the day in downtown Srinagar, witnesses said.

The strike closed down shops, schools and businesses.

The presence of Indian soldiers in Kashmir has long been a major source of tension in the region, where a 20-year insurgency against Indian rule has claimed at least 47,000 lives.

Under both the Indian and the state's own constitution, people from outside Kashmir are barred from owning land in the region. However, there are no restrictions on leasing out land.

India's home minister last week said the government was prepared to withdraw a "significant" number of troops from the restive region.


AFP: 60 hurt at Indian Kashmir demo: officials

 

[Omar1984]

Kashmir protesters clash with army

Hundreds of protesters have clashed with troops in the Kashmiri city of Srinagar, as they rallied for an end to Indian rule in the region.

At least seven demonstrators and four soldiers were injured in the unrest on Friday, the region's senior police official said.

Protesters, chanting "We want freedom" and "Indian troops leave Kashmir," set fire to a checkpoint and pelted the soldiers with rocks.

Army used tear gas and fired warning shots to disperse the crowds.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, a separatist leader, had called for a shutdown of shops and other establishments in the town.

He led thousands of people in a march after Friday prayers, demanding the withdrawal of Indian forces from the India-administrated part of Kashmir.

India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over the predominantly Muslim Himalayan region, which is claimed in full by both countries.

India has an estimated 700,000 soldiers in Kashmir to counter groups that have fought Indian rule since 1989.

More than 40,000 people have been killed and over 200,000 displaced in the uprising and subsequent Indian crackdown.


Al Jazeera English - CENTRAL/S. ASIA - Kashmir protesters clash with army

 

[Omar1984]

Saying Kashmir is not a part of India is similar to saying NWFP/Balochistan are not parts of Pakistan, just on the basis of relative isolation and demographics. Digest that?

NWFP and Balochistan are within the INTERNATIONAL BORDERS of PAKISTAN.

Kashmir is divided between Pakistan and India by LINE OF CONTROL, which is NOT international borders. The UN and the entire international community sees Kashmir as a disputed territory neither as part of Pakistan or India but as a DISPUTED TERRITORY. The UN and international community agree that NWFP and Balochistan is part of Pakistan just like Assam is part of India.

This is reality of Kashmir, a disputed territory, surrounded by Line of Control:



By the way, Syed Ali Geelani is right. All Kashmiris are Pakistanis. Allama Iqbal, the national poet of Pakistan and one of the founding fathers of Pakistan movement, was from a Kashmiri family. And former Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, and his brother Shahbaz Sharif, who is the current Chief Minister of Punjab province of Pakistan, are both Kashmiris so what Syed Ali Geelani said is correct all Kashmiris are Pakistanis.

 

[FreekiN]

That map makes China's part of Kashmir look enormous. Anyways it was decided before the partition that Muslim-majority states would become Pakistan and seeing Kashmir is Muslim majority...

Anyways if India does not want to give Kashmir up for Pakistan's demands then how about do it for democracy? Put up a fair vote as the 'worlds largest democracy' should do. But they don't. Why dont they?

Fear.

 

[bigmoneymaker]

what?? so this news is confirmed then?? i bet the western media will never report this as they are to protect the fragile demoncrazy of india....this is not a scandal already..this is a massacres of indian people by its own armed forces!!! such an unbearable human right violation!!! my wonder is where those western justice figures are gone???!em, double standard and biased for sure...maybe just a mistaken?it seems that the kashmiris people much enjoyed the so called freedom in such largest demoncratic india???.....

 

[Awesome]

The interesting this is not that Geelani said, its that he said it to a massive crowd, which roared with appreciation .

All Kashmiris are welcome to escape the oppression under the hands of Indian armed forces and take refuge in Pakistan as some Indians have suggested here. That offer is already on the table. However they want to reclaim their land first.

 

[EjazR]

I think the most important insight is what Gen. (ret.) Karim mentioned
""It is not a battle between Kashmiri independence and India, but between the secular forces of India and the fundamentalist forces which are wanting to get hold of the Kashmir valley.""

And I see this as not just fundamentalist muslims but hindus as well causing problems in J&K region. For example, the BJP governmetn was pushing for a second partion on communal lines where the muslim majority areas of Kashmir and Jammu would be carved out and the valley would be declared and independant country. (A US backed plan) This would have been a great disaster as not only it would bring the harmful affects of a communal partition but the overwhelming majority people across religions including muslims in the valley wanted a secular united J&K. Thankfully, BJP could not go ahead with that plan. Later there was the Amarnath row again where fundamentalist forces on both sides used religion to flare up tensions when it was basicaly an evironmental issue at the beginning. Even now almost every socio-economic issue is given a communal color by fundamentalist forces.

Then you have the continuous threats and attacks on any huriyat leaders who want to have a peaceful resolution and have the best interests of their people. Many are assassinated or their friends and family are killed or threatened. Hence, eventually it is important for eventual peace to root out extremists forces both hindu and muslim as well as marginalize this thinking. And this has to happen across the border in Pakistani Kashmir as well.

 

[Omar1984]

India’s human rights record in Occupied Kashmir slammed
​

LONDON, Dec 12 (APP)-Indian hegemonic designs towards its neighbouring countries and gross violation of human rights in Kashmir are a grave threat to the regional and global peace.The United Nations and other countries championing the cause of peace and human rights must take concrete steps to preserve the rights of the people.This was stated by President, Tehreek-e-Kashmir UK, Mohammad Ghalib while speaking at a gathering held in Birmingham to observe the World Human Rights Day.

He said presence of over a half million unaccountable Indian military and paramilitary forces with unbridled powers, unprecedented violation of human rights, indiscriminate killings of non combatant population, large scale arrests and detentions and recently discovered about 3,000 mass graves is slap on the face of United Nations.

Mr.Ghalib said India is not only trampling the rights of Kashmiri people but also interfering in neighbouring countries including Pakistan with the aim to destabilize them for advancing its expansionist designs.

“If international community and world bodies fail to stop India, a disastrous war could be erupted engulfing the region,” Ghalib warned.

He urged United Nations to fulfil its promise made with the people of Kashmir with regard to their future by implementing its Security Council Resolution passed on sixty years ago.

Addressing the gathering, Secretary General Tehreek-e-Kashmir UK, Mufti Abdul Majid Nadeem said Muslim around the world are being unfairly targeted and result of this injustice is severe outrage among the Muslims youths.

He said young people in Kashmir took the guns in their hands when United Nations and other influential countries failed to address their legitimate demand for their right to self determination.

Chairman, Pakistan Rabita Council UK, Mufti Mohammad Farooq Alvi said Indian war mongering policies could lead to devastating nuclear war in the region. He added that heinous crimes against humanity are being committed in Kashmir where entire population has been put under the worst draconian laws and the occupation forces taking human lives at their will.

“Innocent people are groaning in jails without trials, young people are arrested and killed and women are raped repeatedly. This all is black spot on the face of United Nation and so-called civilized world.”

Senior Vice President Tehreek-e-Kashmir Chaudhry Mohammad Sharif said people of Kashmir are struggling for their democratic right to self determination and they will continue their till this objective is achieved. Vice President UK Islamic Mission, Qari Nazir Mohammad said there will be no peace in the world until oppressed people are treated with justice and fair play.

Meanwhile, Jammu and Kashmir Liberation League also organised a similar event in the Houses of Parliament where speakers echoed related views. The event was chaired by Lord Nazir Ahmad, the newly elected Chairman of All Parties Kashmir Parliamentary group.

This function among others was addressed by MP David Lidington, Opposition Conservative Party spokesman on Foreign Affairs, MP Paul Goodman.

Lord Nazir Ahmad referred to recently discovered mass graves and called for an end to these excesses and improvement in Human Rights situation in Jammu and Kashmir.

Mr.Lidington was of the opinion that human rights of all human beings particularly the people of Jammu and Kashmir need to be respected.

Referring to mass graves he called for unhindered access to Human Rights organizations like Human Right Watch, Amnesty International, and International Red Cross.

He also said that United Kingdom should persuade both India and Pakistan for constructive and positive dialogue. However respect for Kashmiri aspiration was of paramount importance.

Mr. Goodman referred to International double standards and said that unlike other issues Kashmir was not getting space it deserved on the international radar.

Prof. Nazir Ahmad Shawl, Executive Director, Justice Foundation Kashmir Centre London, said that discovery of the fresh unmarked graves are testimony that the right to life is continuously threatened by the morass of political venality and opportunism and savagery of the military machine and desire to crush the every form of dissent without the care of human consequences.

Chaudhary Mohammad Khan, former overseas (MLA) lamented lack of international concern towards human rights situation in occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

The event organiser Dr. Misfar Hasan talked about the importance of human rights. Mr. Ershad Malik read out the message of Kashmir leader Shabir Ahmad Shah calling International community to give due attention to human rights situation in Jammu Kashmir.