Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Abhishek_]

Ok, well, in that case, that's not really evidence of any sort. Where is the original article from BBC btw? The one that we have here is from a website in Pakistan.

I doubt you will change your stance even if I post the article. Lets agree to disagree.
Pakistan is your nation and it's expected you support its policies and accept the consequences.
I support GOI's stance on Kashmir and the costs my nation bears for it.

 

[Fact_ur_mine]

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan and we will do everything in our power to get it back.

Since Independence, you have already done whatever is in your power

 

[Peshwa]

According to Indian sources there are 500 active militants in Kashmir

Human rights groups put the Indian troops at 500 000 - 700 000

Since June, Indian army has killed 100+ innocent protesters

Lets for a second ignore the numerous reports of fake encounters with militants and take the Indian army's word for the havoc the 500 alleged Pakistani militants create. Its not hard to conclude that the militants and LeT are not the main problem in Kashmir. Blaming the militancy and ignoring Indian army abuses is pure hypocrisy and cannot be taken seriously.

Duh!

As if this wasnt obvious that the presence of the army in Kashmir has a dual purpose..

a. To prevent repeated attempts by Pakistan to capture Kashmir militarily
b. To prevent havoc caused by terrorists and to hunt them down.

If you're gonna use your line of reasoning, we have to throw it back at you by saying that the bogey of "Pakistan cant divert troops from its eastern border to fight terrorists because of the Indian threat" is nothing more than a sham since when was the last time India attacked Pakistan in Kashmir?
The last time we attacked you in '71 and that was in E.Pakistan...NOT Kashmir...though Pakistan has in '47, '65 and '99

So being the masters of assessing our own threat perception (just as Pakistanis claim to be), the presence of the Indian army in Kashmir is much more legitimate than the imaginary threat Pakistan has been playing up to prevent fighting Taliban in the WOT!

 

[Peshwa]

You're comparing apples with oranges. What the above two individuals are talking about are mostly public things that are well known. Not the case here.

OTOH, again, bharatis have shown some sort of a moral highground when it comes to believing in conspiracy theories and circulating the conspiracy theories. All the talk about Pakistanis being insane and all that and shifting blame and bharatis being logical and rational, etc.

Oh now its public knowledge?

No no....we need proof of all the rapes.....murders....fake killings...

Can you please provide concrete evidences?
Coz witness could be paid....general people can be mislead by propoganda and unless you have undeniable proof that these crimes were committed by our armed forces....then your proof is baseless...

Im sick of your double standards...expect to get what you throw at us!

I told you in another thread.....the kind of proof you keep asking about....is not accessible to you nor to an average Indian....
So either we can discuss based on reports we read....or we can play this game where we just end up wasting bandwidth!

 

[SMC]

The killings of Kashmiri civilians are in the open. Not something that needs to be proven. Or are you going to say that they didn't happen? Your sarcasm won't work here. You genuinely have no idea the difference between the two things here. Or for that matter how evidence and convictions work. Which is quite shocking, considering that you seem to be quite mature.

 

[Peshwa]

The killings of Kashmiri civilians are in the open. Not something that needs to be proven. Or are you going to say that they didn't happen? Your sarcasm won't work here. You genuinely have no idea the difference between the two things here. Or for that matter how evidence and convictions work. Which is quite shocking, considering that you seem to be quite mature.

Which killings do you refer to? the recent deaths that were a result of the reactionary action by the police in the process of preventing vandalism and arson?

If you're talking about the deaths, rapes, and the mass graves that Pakistanis often quote?.....is there any proof that the Indian army was responsible?
Is there any documental evidence other than "blame by Kashmiris" that has been used to implicate the IA of this crime?

because as I mentioned....it will be hard for even Scotland Yard to pin these crimes....You can assume...but you wont be able to provide "concrete evidence"...Do you agree?

Seriously speaking, if Indians and Pakistanis truly want a solution to this problem, the acceptance of a problem needs to be the first step from both!
Harping on "concrete evidence" is only going to boil more blood cause we end up insulting each others intelligence.

 

[SMC]

I am precisely referring to killings of late. Well you can give explanations that you want, but Indian forces killed people knowing that they're innocent civilians.

As far as the other things you're talking about, yeah that's a harder case to make.

 

[Abhishek_]

I am precisely referring to killings of late. Well you can give explanations that you want, but Indian forces killed people knowing that they're innocent civilians.

As far as the other things you're talking about, yeah that's a harder case to make.

stone-pelters and vandals is a more fitting description but that is of course off-topic

 

[Peshwa]

I am precisely referring to killings of late. Well you can give explanations that you want, but Indian forces killed people knowing that they're innocent civilians.

As far as the other things you're talking about, yeah that's a harder case to make.

The way I look at it is....

Until the issue is resolved.....Law and order in Kashmir is the Indian responsibility...similar to Pakistani Kashmir being under Pak law?

So when people vandalize and burn public property at the cost of the average Kashmiri and get injured or killed in the process, that's unfortunate, but a a reaction to the violence....
I will blame our limited riot control experience that armed forces of the subontinent have, but cannot be considered an act of suppression by the system....
Do you allow people to burn and vandalize public property on your side? NO!
Anarchy will not be tolerated....simple! And we have been equally brutal on Indians outside of Kashmir as well...esp.wrt riots....so this cannot be termed a Kashmir specific thing...
Last but not the least, it was Kashmiri police (made up of ethnic Kashmiris) who were taking these actions....NOT the IA

So say if a violent protestor permanently injures or kills a Kashmiri policeman....doesnt a Kashmiri die? Arent the Kashmiri policeman innocent as well?

And lastly....how can you call stone throwing vandals "innocent"...men or women?

 

[SMC]

Not allowing people to vandalize or throw stones is one thing, killing them for those acts is another thing. Anyway, I think this discussion will drag on forever and TBH i don't have much interest in the Kashmir issue. I don't see the big deal in making the LoC an international border.

 

[Peshwa]

Not allowing people to vandalize or throw stones is one thing, killing them for those acts is another thing. Anyway, I think this discussion will drag on forever and TBH i don't have much interest in the Kashmir issue. I don't see the big deal in making the LoC an international border.

Glad we see eye to eye!

 

[sergente rehan]

For an instant i thought maybe something serious is posted...but as always it turned out to be a usual BS post by some indian member!

maybe i should open another thread to respond to this crap? "India trying to hide it's brutal acts against innocent Kashmiries with false claims against Pakistan".

indian members must stop spreeding this BS agaisnt Pakistan and try to back up these claims with real sources not only Never saw what is indian army doing in Kashmire? even the international comunity have their concerns on this matter.

 

[jayron]

For an instant i thought maybe something serious is posted...but as always it turned out to be a usual BS post by some indian member!

maybe i should open another thread to respond to this crap? "India trying to hide it's brutal acts against innocent Kashmiries with false claims against Pakistan".

indian members must stop spreeding this BS agaisnt Pakistan and try to back up these claims with real sources not only Never saw what is indian army doing in Kashmire? even the international comunity have their concerns on this matter.

Excuse me... This is an editorial by a Pakistani newspaper on an report by BBC. Where does Indian hand come here? It is beyond me how you could brand this a an Indian propaganda.

 

[PakSher]

You know the shaboos bhajee ram cannot post anything useful. Baghal mau churee and mu may ram ram.

 

[desiman]

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan and we will do everything in our power to get it back.

k keep trying we shall see how long that last. People living in glass houses should not throw stones at others, no one should know this better than Pakistan.