Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Hawkish]

Omar

Do you have a plan to get countries backing Pakistan?

This is key because bigotry India will simply postpone bi-lateral talk. They are not interested as the status-quo suits them

So what is your plan? Statements from Qureshi supporting Kashmir virtually carry no weight with the world leaders and are ignored.

Pakistani blood is not that cheap. Pakistan already has made too many sacrafices. More Pakistani troops and Pakistani civilians have died in this war OF terror than Americans who brought this war into Pakistan.

Pakistanis come first. Our people have already made so many sacrafices.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/23296-honoring-our-martyrs.html

Pakistanis are not willing to lose more troops and more civilians by battling the same people that the world's largest army and 7 other nations' troops can't defeat. That'll be suicide for Pakistan.

Besides, OBL is not even in Pakistan. If he was, I'm sure Pakistan would hand him over. Because of him Pakistanis are suffering.


And I doubt you are Kashmiri. Maybe an American who thinks OBL is in Pakistan. Tell CIA to give the exact location of OBL to ISI, and ISI will gladly hand him over to U.S. so this miserable war can be over.

 

[Hawkish]

As I said earlier, everything on the table is available for negotiation. This includes Kashmir occupied by India.

Remember Kashmir is a 'disputed territory' documented in UN. We are just looking other way now as we are busy elsewhere. When there is a need we will turn our head towards Kashmir which is the cause of many problems in South Asia

Hawkish, is your real name Barrack Hussein Obama by any chance ?

Even if it was, you cannot "gift" something that's not yours. The most you will do is give them more F-16s and maybe a few F-35's along with few billion $$$.

Don't even look at Kashmir.

 

[KS]

As I said earlier, everything on the table is available for negotiation. This includes Kashmir occupied by India.

Kashmir is not available for any negotiation, Mr.American.

At the best what India can do is to agree making LoC as the Permanent border (We will loose P0K which is legally ours,but thats OK).Other than...nothing will happen.

Remember Kashmir is a 'disputed territory' documented in UN. We are just looking other way now as we are busy elsewhere. When there is a need we will turn our head towards Kashmir which is the cause of many problems in South Asia

UN - ah the same impotent organisation that couldnt stop a country from unilaterally invading another sovereign country for oil against the wishes of the majority of the international community.

Sorry It can take hike.

 

[Ganges Zephyr]

As I said earlier, everything is on the table is available for negotiation. This includes Kashmir occupied by India.

Remember Kashmir is a 'disputed territory' documented in UN. We are just looking other way now as we are busy elsewhere. When there is a need we will turn our head towards Kashmir which is the cause of many problems in South Asia

Your so called "table" is'nt big enough to accommodate the K issue. Pak recognize it as IOK and NOT USA-OK. Hope you can understand the difference. If yes, you are in no position to negotiate and you wont do it, everybody knows, now you don have much to gain from your old ally. Better offer them the N-Deal for whatever you want otherwise you will lose that too as China seems to outsmart you in most of the affairs now-a-days.

 

[GUNNER]

Kashmir issue: Can't ignore Pak role, says Omar

Srinagar: Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has supported one of the interlocutors' remarks about involving Pakistan to resolve the Kashmir dispute.

Omar said this, in fact, is the truth and there's no avoiding it.

"What is new in this? When Vajpayee visited Pakistan, didn't he discuss Kashmir? Is there not a resolution in Parliament where we want a part of Kashmir back from Pakistan? You include Pakistan in that, and when the interlocutors want to discuss Pakistan, you people have a problem with that. Pakistan has an important role in resolving the Kashmir issue, which cannot be ignored," Omar said.

The remark by Dilip Padgaonkar had created a controversy and he had come under attack by the BJP.

Read more at: Kashmir issue: Can't ignore Pak role, says Omar

 

[Omar1984]

Omar

Do you have a plan to get countries backing Pakistan?

This is key because bigotry India will simply postpone bi-lateral talk. They are not interested as the status-quo suits them

So what is your plan? Statements from Qureshi supporting Kashmir virtually carry no weight with the world leaders and are ignored.

Well what you're asking from Pakistan is like shooting oneself in the foot.

First you want Pakistan to battle against very strong groups that the world's superpower is having a tough time defeating that will cause Pakistan to lose thousands of more Pakistani troops, thousands of more Pakistani civilians, cause daily suicide bombings in Pakistani cities, cost Pakistan billions of more rupees, even create more differences and hatred between Pakistani people.

Then after so much sacrafices from Pakistan, you then want Pakistan to make additional sacrafices and give away large parts of Pakistani territory so that an Independent nation of Kashmir can be born.

Why not Pakistan use all 100 nuclear warheads on itself, will that also make you happy?

 

[Pride]

@Hawkish
I dont write too much now a days on this topic but your post made me to write it again.
Exactly, The point is what a Kashmiri want neither Indians or Indian backed leaders (Abdullahs) nor Pakistanis nor Pakistani backed leaders (Gilani) or groups(JeM, HUJI etc).

Kashmiris actually want independance and that is true but again what is that freedom lets try to understand.[This all is based on discussion with many Kashmiris and forum discussion POV].

IaK Kashmiris are suffering due to-

1) Presence of Army at their doorsteps and AFSPA law which makes some rogue army personnels to use them for their profit.

2) Involvement of Pakistan supported groups like LeT, JeM, HUJI etc sends Terrorists as well as misguide youth which kill many people in valley and then get killed by army. Loss from both side is of Kashmiris.

3) Article 370 and denotion of disputed territory is a big problem which stops private player's to invest money which may be used as job for youth.

4) Religious hardliner groups also makes it difficult for Kashmiris some times to go to other Indian stated and work as well as sell their handicrafts because "India" is a "Hindu" country while Laddakh and jammu region take the advantage of "Secular" India.

Pak-administered-Kashmir are suffering due to

1) In the name of soveriginity of Kashmi, they are nothing but stooges of GoP and have to be dependent on Pakistan for everything. This stops any kind of Kashmir intended development while if any Pakistan's profitable business comes (China-Gwadar rail line) then they easily utilize the place but revenue does not go into AJK but goes to Pakistan (similar to Balochistan).

2) G&B is still claimed as Pakistani territory and mostly they claim it Pakistani only for discussion and plebiscite it gets involved.

3) It has disputed status but still the migration from neighbouring state Punjab in different areas are getting migrated and settled hence losing of Kashmiri region based identity.

Both side Kashmiri are also suffering because they cant easily go to either side to meet their loved ones and relative.

How this uplifting of Kashmiris can be done??

1) Leave the "Disputed territory" discussion and do a betterment for a normal Kashmiri from both the side. Provide the jobs do the economic development.

2) Demilitarization as well as removal of terrorist groups so they can live up.

3) Provide some special status for Kashmiris on respective countries' like quota in studies for school colleges etc.

4) Provide self dependancy and promote respective Kashmir for its heritage, culture, tourist place etc and stop looking it as a place for pride or side.

5) Once 1 or 2 mature generations face all these study and understand situation then what so ever they want. Let them decide democratically and politilcally.

 

[Hawkish]

Great points and balanced. I still feel that Kashmiris as a nation of their own can take care better than India or Pakistan.

@Hawkish
I dont write too much now a days on this topic but your post made me to write it again.
Exactly, The point is what a Kashmiri want neither Indians or Indian backed leaders (Abdullahs) nor Pakistanis nor Pakistani backed leaders (Gilani) or groups(JeM, HUJI etc).

Kashmiris actually want independance and that is true but again what is that freedom lets try to understand.[This all is based on discussion with many Kashmiris and forum discussion POV].

IaK Kashmiris are suffering due to-

1) Presence of Army at their doorsteps and AFSPA law which makes some rogue army personnels to use them for their profit.

2) Involvement of Pakistan supported groups like LeT, JeM, HUJI etc sends Terrorists as well as misguide youth which kill many people in valley and then get killed by army. Loss from both side is of Kashmiris.

3) Article 370 and denotion of disputed territory is a big problem which stops private player's to invest money which may be used as job for youth.

4) Religious hardliner groups also makes it difficult for Kashmiris some times to go to other Indian stated and work as well as sell their handicrafts because "India" is a "Hindu" country while Laddakh and jammu region take the advantage of "Secular" India.

Pak-administered-Kashmir are suffering due to

1) In the name of soveriginity of Kashmi, they are nothing but stooges of GoP and have to be dependent on Pakistan for everything. This stops any kind of Kashmir intended development while if any Pakistan's profitable business comes (China-Gwadar rail line) then they easily utilize the place but revenue does not go into AJK but goes to Pakistan (similar to Balochistan).

2) G&B is still claimed as Pakistani territory and mostly they claim it Pakistani only for discussion and plebiscite it gets involved.

3) It has disputed status but still the migration from neighbouring state Punjab in different areas are getting migrated and settled hence losing of Kashmiri region based identity.

Both side Kashmiri are also suffering because they cant easily go to either side to meet their loved ones and relative.

How this uplifting of Kashmiris can be done??

1) Leave the "Disputed territory" discussion and do a betterment for a normal Kashmiri from both the side. Provide the jobs do the economic development.

2) Demilitarization as well as removal of terrorist groups so they can live up.

3) Provide some special status for Kashmiris on respective countries' like quota in studies for school colleges etc.

4) Provide self dependancy and promote respective Kashmir for its heritage, culture, tourist place etc and stop looking it as a place for pride or side.

5) Once 1 or 2 mature generations face all these study and understand situation then what so ever they want. Let them decide democratically and politilcally.

 

[Hawkish]

Omar

keeping your emotions aside, think. What we are asking is not unreasonable. Getting of rid of terrorists is also your own interest. How long are you going let these minority rogues detroy the nation and the majority of smart, hardworking moderate Pakistanis?

Did you read about the the bomb blast in Pakpattan today killing 6?

How long you are going to put with these causalities? Wake up guys. If you don't act now, it will be to late

Well what you're asking from Pakistan is like shooting oneself in the foot.

First you want Pakistan to battle against very strong groups that the world's superpower is having a tough time defeating that will cause Pakistan to lose thousands of more Pakistani troops, thousands of more Pakistani civilians, cause daily suicide bombings in Pakistani cities, cost Pakistan billions of more rupees, even create more differences and hatred between Pakistani people.

Then after so much sacrafices from Pakistan, you then want Pakistan to make additional sacrafices and give away large parts of Pakistani territory so that an Independent nation of Kashmir can be born.

Why not Pakistan use all 100 nuclear warheads on itself, will that also make you happy?

 

[Pride]

Great points and balanced. I still feel that Kashmiris as a nation of their own can take care better than India or Pakistan.

Thanks for the appreciation but I dont agree with your point that Kashmir can be better when it is separate nation. Kashmir as a separate country will inherit so many stooges from India and Pakistan that they again will make a mess of it. Then another angle China will come in to picture.
Apart from foreign relation, Kashmir (lets consider valley+AJK only as G&B will remain with Pak while Laddakh and Jammu will remain with India) will not be a big country area and population wise.

Economically viability is also a big point as tourism will be only big industry there and its economic condtion will not be better that Nepal (other country based on tourism).

 

[Omar1984]

Omar

keeping your emotions aside, think. What we are asking is not unreasonable. Getting of rid of terrorists is also your own interest. How long are you going let these minority rogues detroy the nation and the majority of smart, hardworking moderate Pakistanis?

Did you read about the the bomb blast in Pakpattan today killing 6?

How long you are going to put with these causalities? Wake up guys. If you don't act now, it will be to late

Truth of the matter is that Pakistan was doing just fine before the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 and so was U.S.A.

This war was never in Pakistan's interest and is not in America's interest either.

Afghan Taliban, Haqqani network just want the occupiers out of their country, Afghanistan. TTP were formed after US invasion of Afghanistan. Before US invasion of Afghanistan Pakistan was doing much better economically and there were no suicide bombings.


How popular is this war in America now?


End this war, keep out of the Afghanistan Pakistan region, and lets do what we were doing before 2001.



Too much blood has been spilled because of this war OF terror.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well. Pakistan jumped the gun and we will now never know.. Would we. ? However, had that invasion by Pakistan army irregulars hadnt happened, Pakistan would have had a much stronger case aganist accession to India if that went down..Not anymore...

Nonsense - had Pakistani forces not taken the territory Pakistan currently administers, India would have gobbled up the entire area as it is trying to do now with IOK.

Look at what India did in the Princely States of Junagadh and Hyderabad after all. In the former case the ruler acceded to Pakistan, yet India continued to support destabilization in the territory and eventually invaded and occupied the State. The same in the case of Hyderabad, where the ruler was leaning towards Pakistan or Independence, but India invaded and occupied the territory before a decision on accession or independence could be made.

Given the above Indian actions, and the apathy of the world towards the Kashmir cause in general, there is nothing to substantiate the POV that a lack of Pakistani military action would have placed the Kashmir cause for self-determination in a stronger position.

 

[Pride]

Nonsense - had Pakistani forces not taken the territory Pakistan currently administers, India would have gobbled up the entire area as it is trying to do now with IOK.

Look at what India did in the Princely States of Junagadh and Hyderabad after all. In the former case the ruler acceded to Pakistan, yet India continued to support destabilization in the territory and eventually invaded and occupied the State. The same in the case of Hyderabad, where the ruler was leaning towards Pakistan or Independence, but India invaded and occupied the territory before a decision on accession or independence could be made.

Given the above Indian actions, and the apathy of the world towards the Kashmir cause in general, there is nothing to substantiate the POV that a lack of Pakistani military action would have placed the Kashmir cause for self-determination in a stronger position.

AM, We have discussed a lot on this issue earlier but Alas! we still meet again on the same issue.

I am still waiting for any mail, gazetier or documents which has been send by Kashmiris to newly built Pakistan for merging with them. If you have then please share with us otherwise what so ever Tribal army did on your say was illegal.

Regarding Hyderabad, Junagarh, Kashmir from our side or NWFP (yes I count that), Balochistan (Kalat), If you take a rational approach, then these all are due to flawed dissection of British India. Infact many areas in Punjab and Bengal were also flawed. The point was While Pakistan was denoted as nation for Muslims then there can't be a proper diversion of India. Reason was that, India was full of Hindus and Muslims in many areas including princely states hence diversion of its become many islandic type country (Lesotho around South Africa type).

Second flawed part was to distribute area or selection of princely states based on religion. When all Indian Muslims dont want to migrate how come this logic is valid? If being Muslim only would be a criteria for a state to merge with any of the nation then I believe UP and Bihar would have been Pakistan rather than migrating many people in East and West Pakistan in comparison to Pakistan. If liking of a leader would be a choice then NWFp would be in India due to very good relations between Frontier & Indian Gandhi.

If Princely state sign is a problem then same goes with Kalat as well whose ruler wants to go with Pakistan but rest want an independant contry.

So rather than discussing all states mentioned above, lets focus on Kashmir and leave those points for general public to curse each other.

Then another

 

[shekhar]

one possible solution for kashmir issue is first of all remove special status for kashmir , kashmir is a part of india as other states but it has special status (ex indians from other state cant purchase land in kashmir as promised to king of kashmir)
once special status is removed then flood the kashmir with hindu majority population i am talking like settle 30 to 35 million hindu population (slow process for next 25 years giving them kashmir domicile ) right to vote in kashmir election we already have 7 laks army in kashmir we can protect non hindu population and goverment should give this offer to hindus like jews in israel that take goverment loan to purchase land in kashmir and if you stay there for 15 years you dont have to repay the loan once that is done in the mean time india should just keep this kashmir issue under paper i mean keep this issue very low profile then after 25 years say somewhere around 2040 go for plebiscite under UN and of-course the migrated hindus will have right to vote in that then follow the result i think it will be in indian fav then make LOC as border
its a slow process and very complex but very effective and by 2040 india will have very strong voice on world stage as india will be 3rd largest economy in world and plebiscite in our fav , pak will not have any option and we can check mate pak easily then

 

[Hawkish]

lack of Pakistani military action would have placed the Kashmir cause for self-determination in a stronger position.

That is then; What is the situation now? Kasmiris have been abandoned and they have no voice. There is virtually no takers for Kashmir freedom. India has managed to push the LOC solution.

If at all there was a hope, it was Pakistan's responsibility to muster the support from many countries. They screwed it.

Does Pakistan take responsibility for Kashmir situation today? When I say situation, I don't mean the ground situation at Kashmir. I mean the international support for the Kashmir cause. Don't tell me Quershi raises this issue in UN often. As I said earlier, no one wants to buy it from him