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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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hmmm... I have already told you that I disagree with your viewpoints ...

Which exact point do you disagree with? Are you saying that the elections where not rigged.
I gave you a neutral link to back up my point about the elections in Kashmir being rigged and that being the main trigger for the armed struggle,this then links onto why freedom fighters move along the LOC.

and I discourage anybody to say that the reporter of the report you mentioned (Altaf Hussain) was a pakistani politician... and your own country and sentenced him for 27 years in army major kidnapping case by special terrorist court.... this will become a waste of time if we go down that path...

I dont seem to remember giving you a link to this story......i might be wrong.


and let us stick to the feasibility and morality of you supporting your so called freedom fighters...

You dont want to discuss the history of the issue but want me to then tell you the reason why there fighting?


What is this switched on again after a bit of time... so till then you will simply send your own country men on a suicide mission ?
I find this reasoning to be insane... don't you think so ?

India wanted the movement of fighters across the LOC to be stopped before they would talk on the issue.
Pakistan stop the fighter and you indians fence the LOC and make new bunkers along the border and do nothing else but increase your demands.
You want to keep kashmir by force and we will help the kashmiris take it by force......it would be a lot better if we talked about the issue but you indians have to make more more gestures.....we stopped the fighters and you gave us a bus.


Whenever a countries integral part is attacked it will send its army or CRPF or BSF (it's equivalent in other other countries), that is what the army is for...

If kashmir was an integral part of india then i would agree with you....but its not according to international opinion.

Think about your so called freedom fighters ? what happens to their family after they die ? will they be given any decoration by your government (which it is obliged to do for exceptionary service if any at all).. or will your government give them a pension ... or will your government give them quotas or reservations for any of their family members in their educational institutes... no NONE... isn't this morally bankrupt ? nobody cares about them ... they are simply like used bullets ... aren't they ?
If you disagree with the above points give links where in your government has considered the dead terrorist if at all he has served well according to your countries standard given any award... or that dead terrorist's family treated as same as that of a martyred uniformed men...

All the famlies of freedom fighters that are martyred are given a money and basic commodities every month.On top of that every eid they are given a small lump sum.
The freedom fighters that come baclk alive are given govt-tanzeem jobs.
I dont know about being givem medal but i know roads-schools and villages are named after the martyred freedom fighters.


hmm... don't you know the results ? Kashmir for most part is with India and will be with India...

:rofl::rofl:


See dude, let us not talk about reasons/who wants to be with who... we have seen enough of reasons from both sides and none of the threads really had a conclusion about whether Kashmiris wanted to be with India or with Pakistan or seperately... No body was able to convince other person... so I am telling you again... let us leave this in this thread... and only discuss about the feasibility of your infiltration giving any results...

Well we pinned down hundreds of thousand of indians and made you spend billions.




really ? doctors, engineers, teachers (don't count religious teachers of any religion) have taken arms and are crossing border for doing terrorism ? come on... how many of them do so... and if at all, give some links atleast please...

and this time I encourage you to give a credible link ... not a report written by a defamed Pakistani politician... or a person sentenced of terrorism.... a credible link is welcome...


What difference will it make to your opinion if they are some doctors,engineers ect fighting against he occupation forces?
 
Which exact point do you disagree with? Are you saying that the elections where not rigged.
I gave you a neutral link to back up my point about the elections in Kashmir being rigged and that being the main trigger for the armed struggle,this then links onto why freedom fighters move along the LOC.
Glad to know that at least one Pakistani acknowledges that the 'trigger' for armed struggle was not physical oppression by '700,000' IA troops.
...we will help the kashmiris take it by force...
Thanks for this honesty. At least you are not pretending that all this 'freedom fighting' is to demand 'right' for self-determination.
 
Hope that good old man had been alive for a litttle longer....:frown:
 
BBC News - Kashmir militants 'regrouping' in Pakistan

Militants in Pakistani-administered Kashmir have regrouped on the Pakistani side of the divided territory, local politicians have told the BBC.

From 1988, militants aided by Pakistan's security forces waged a guerrilla war in the disputed region.

But their activities were curtailed during the rule of President Pervez Musharraf from 2001 to 2008.

Officials say that in recent weeks "Jihadi activities" have recommenced across the Line of Control (LoC).

The LoC is the de facto border which separates Indian-administered Kashmir from Pakistani-administered Kashmir.


Correspondents say that renewed militant activity is bound to be of concern to India, especially when Delhi and Islamabad almost came to war when militants - accused by India of being Pakistani-based - attacked the Indian parliament in December 2001.

"Jihadi activities have been restarted during the last few weeks," Arif Shahid, secretary general of the All Parties National Alliance (APNA) told the BBC.

"Most of the activities are concentrated in the Neelum Valley along the LoC."


Mr Shahid - who has personally visited the region with other APNA leaders - said that militants were based there in large numbers and have set up camps in the area.

"The men are not locals - they have long hair and beards. Most do not speak the local language," he said.

Local citizens in the Neelum Valley told the BBC much the same thing.

"We are scared," a resident said.

"The armed men are moving around the area and are trying to cross the border.

"We can make out from their appearances and languages they are not from any part of Kashmir."


Mr Shahid said that he believed that the militants were planning to sabotage ongoing Pakistan-India peace negotiations.

"They have set up camps in the region and many are crossing the border," he said.

"This is the start of another proxy war."


His comments are supported by Shaukat Maqbool Bhat, head of the anti-Indian Jammu Kashmir National Liberation Front (JKNLF).

"The fighters are there and they are regularly crossing into India," Mr Bhat told the BBC.


"The local people are very scared - they believe the [militant] crossings are going to restart artillery exchanges between the Pakistani and Indian armies."


This report backs India's claims that Pakistan is infusing non Kashmiri terrorists into the Kashmir insurgency. On a longer term, this will benefit India since it can remove whatever little support these insurgents enjoy in the India state of J&K
 
How free is my Valley?

Saadia Gardezi (The Friday Times, Pakistan)

The “Azad” in AJK smacks of oxymoronic rhetoric. Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) is neither a free territory, nor a province of Pakistan. Muzaffarabad has always been under the control of Islamabad and the curtailment of the freedom of expression is constitutionally protected. Without meaning to refer to the new name just bestowed on an old province, let me ask, what’s in a name?

Here is what.

There are a number of reports that describe the human rights violations in Indian Occupied Kashmir but it is hard to come by reports of violations on Pakistan’s side. The Pakistani government often pretends that the only problems faced by Kashmiris are in India. The official position that there are no human rights violations in AJK is a naïve and disingenuous position that needs to be challenged. According to the Freedom House World Freedom Reports, in 2008 Pakistan-administered Kashmir was given the status “Not Free”. This index awards a score of 1 to a “free country” based on ratings of political rights and civil liberties. These ratings are averaged, ranging from 1 to 7, i.e. countries or disputed territories with scores from 1 to 2.5 are considered Free, 3 to 5 are Partly Free, and 5.5 to 7 are Not Free. In 2008, this index gave AJK a Political Rights Score of 7 and a Civil Liberties score of 5. The scores for AJK have improved to a 6 and a 5 respectively in 2010. In comparison, Indian Occupied Kashmir has better scores of 5 for political rights and a 4 for civil liberties, and a status of ‘partly free’, which ironically is exactly equivalent to Pakistan’s national score and status!

According to Brad Adams, Asia Director at Human Rights Watch , the “Pakistani authorities govern Azad Kashmir with strict controls on basic freedoms… The military shows no tolerance for dissent and practically runs the region as a fiefdom.” The presence of an elected local government is a mere formality. In 2006, Human Rights Watch (HRW) reported that the federal government in Islamabad, the army and the ISI control all aspects of political life in AJK. Torture is routinely used in Pakistan, and this practice is also common in AJK. HRW also documented incidents of torture by the intelligence services and other agencies and individuals acting at the behest of the security establishment but knows of no cases in which members of military and paramilitary security and intelligence agencies have been prosecuted or even disciplined for acts of torture or mistreatment.

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) has also articulated tight controls on freedom of expression as a key pillar of government policy in AJK. While militant organizations promoting the incorporation of Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir State into Pakistan have had free reign to propagate their views, groups promoting an independent Kashmir find their speech curtailed. Publications and literature favouring independence are banned.

Pakistan has prevented the creation of an independent media in the territory through bureaucratic restrictions and coercion. Looking at the freedom of expression in AJK, before 2005, the only radio allowed to operate was the Azad Kashmir Radio, a subsidiary of Radio Pakistan. Similarly before the earthquake telephone landlines were limited and being strictly monitored and a very limited mobile telephone service was operational. HRW reports that all telecommunications stations were controlled by the Special Communications Organization (SCO), a functional unit of the Pakistani army. Only after the earthquake did the government allow private mobile phone companies to operate in Azad Kashmir when it was pointed out that the loss of life could have been lessened had people and rescue workers had this technology as they did in affected areas in NWFP (as it was then called).

It has been widely reported that refugees from Jammu and Kashmir are discriminated against and mistreated by the authorities. Kashmiri refugees and former militants from India, most of whom are secular nationalists and culturally and linguistically different from the people of AJK, are particularly harassed through continuous surveillance, arbitrary beating and arrests and restraints on political expression. Pakistani military bases in AJK are usually placed in close proximity to highly populated civilian areas supposedly because of a lack of space. But many Kashmiris told HRW that the Pakistani military uses the bases to keep a close watch on the population to ensure political compliance and control.

Freedoms of association and assembly are restricted and constitutionally repressed. Article 4(7)(2) of the Azad Jammu and Kashmir Interim Constitution Act of 1974, states: ‘No person or party in Azad Jammu and Kashmir shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the States accession to Pakistan’. In recent years anti-government demonstrations have been violently suppressed and examples of these incidents are not hard to find. In 2005, at least ten people were killed when the police fired on a group of Shia students, after which curfews were imposed in Gilgit to prevent demonstrators from assembling. In 2006 police detained leaders of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, including Amanullah Khan, after they attended a peaceful rally in Rawalpindi against the construction of the Bhasha Dam. Khan was detained for a week and was not permitted to receive visitors during that time, according to the U.S. State Department’s human rights report. In October 2008, police baton-charged dozens of people demonstrating against the proposal to move the capital of Azad Kashmir from Muzaffarabad. Three people were arrested but released the same day. In November 2008, the police blocked activists of the pro-independence APNA who were protesting in favor of truck services across the line-of-control from entering a town near the line-of-control.

In 2007, the European Union (EU) passed Emma Nicholson’s Kashmir report with an overwhelming majority and adopted it as an official EU document. This kind of report sits squarely in the grey area of the AJK problem. It has been touted in the media as being anti-Pakistan and there are Kashmiris who find it pro-Kashmiri rights and some call it dubious. The key problem with this report is that it fails to acknowledge Indian repression in Kashmir and portrays a benign image of a “pro-people” India.

The EU report titled ‘Present situation and future prospects’ was critical of the fact that the Pakistan side of Kashmir was governed through the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad, that Pakistan officials dominated the Kashmir Council. This report also highlighted the facts that at the time the Chief Secretary, the Inspector-General of Police, the Accountant-General and the Finance Secretary were all from Pakistan. Nicholson disapproved of the provision in the 1974 Interim Constitution, which forbids any political activity that is not in accordance with the doctrine of Jammu and Kashmir as articulated by Pakistan, and obliges any candidate for a parliamentary seat in AJK to sign a declaration of loyalty to that effect.

Looking at the rule of law, the whole system of law and order seemingly rests on the control by the army and Islamabad. A clear illustration was given at the time of the 2005 earthquake when the AJK governmental structure collapsed. Analysts noted how, in the aftermath of 2005 earthquake the local government system was exposed. To quote Akbar Zaidi, “the local government system and its elected bodies are part of the rubble along with the entire physical infra-structure of the area.”

Due to the limited mandate of the AJK Legislative Assembly, the elected political leaders of Azad Kashmir essentially remain ostensible heads of the territory while the real power resides in Islamabad with the Ministry of Kashmir and Northern Areas (KANA). Naturally this requires an obedient AJK administration. Since the early 1990s, the decision-making authority and management of the Kashmir issue has been under the Pakistan military, the ISI and ISI backed militant organizations.

In this unique case of “self-rule”, under the constitution, the elected representatives are acquiescent to the Kashmir Council controlled by Islamabad. The High Court and Supreme Court Judges can only be appointed by approval of the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs in Islamabad. The Minister of Kashmir Affairs can dismiss the Prime Minister, as can the Chief Secretary – another Islamabad appointee. Under Article 56, the President of Pakistan can dissolve the Legislative Assembly.

Adding to the already dismal situation of human rights in AJK is the instability of the Northern Areas and the migration of these people into AJK. It can be argued that the appropriation of land in the Northern Areas by non-Kashmiri migrants with the tacit encouragement of the federal government and army has diminished economic opportunities for the local population. An externality of this has been an increase in sectarian tension between the majority Shia Muslims and the growing numbers of Sunnis in AJK and 2009 and 2010 have seen increasing tension and sectarian violence.

So is the human rights and law and order situation of AJK worse than that at the east of the line of control? Answers can range from “yes” to “maybe” to “no”. The truth is that this is a loaded question, and this sort of a comparison is hard to make. Reports and perspectives of AJK from the Indian side refer to AJK as Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. It is indeed true that there is a lack of consideration of human rights on both sides. Yet the facts are blurred by the political biases of both sides, and neutral reports become emotionally charged. External reporting by international watchdogs like Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch are a step behind. Research by organizations like the HRCP and reporting by local news channels is only just making headway.

The 2006 Human Rights Watch report on Kashmir quotes a Muzaffarabad resident, “Pakistan says they are our friends and India is our enemy. I agree India is our enemy, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?”

AJK is yet to operate as a ‘free’ territory given the way we control it. Yet, understandably, we are loathe to accept this reality and our mainstream media is usually silent about this. Our rhetoric on AJK remains inflated and questionable.

'How free is my valley' from TFT
 
Some people keep saying that people of "Azad" Kashmir and Northern Areas must be happy with Pakistan because there are no protests. Well, the above article gives us a good picture of what's happening there.
 
if u not allow media in pak occupied kashmir and claim that ..they all happy so how some one gonna believe

who know what they do with those peoples
 
You dont want to discuss the history of the issue but want me to then tell you the reason why there fighting?

You have misunderstood, I do not want to know the reason for their fighting. I was asking about the feasibility of this approach based on logical arguments.


when I said feasibility and morality, I was talking about the feasibility of this approach and morality of the people who support the terrorists (by not giving their family any benefits have the dead terrorists chosen to be with your army than becoming an infiltrator.... and make use of uneducated/poor people for whatever ulterior motives)...


All the famlies of freedom fighters that are martyred are given a money and basic commodities every month.On top of that every eid they are given a small lump sum.
The freedom fighters that come baclk alive are given govt-tanzeem jobs.
I dont know about being givem medal but i know roads-schools and villages are named after the martyred freedom fighters.

Care to give a link ? care to prove this point ?



What difference will it make to your opinion if they are some doctors,engineers ect fighting against he occupation forces?

A world of difference, educated and successful people will have a life to live well. But the poor/uneducated people can be manipulated. Such a manipulation should not occur.
 
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if u not allow media in pak occupied kashmir and claim that ..they all happy so how some one gonna believe

who know what they do with those peoples

Well if the world calls 700,000 soldiers hanging over the head as free then we are sorry to be unable to provide that service to Kashmiris on our side.

They live in Pakistan.

they work here every one travels freely.

there are no killings of civilians by army or other security agencies.

People share same problems with other Pakistanis and that is price hike, poverty, energy crises and other daily life issues.

All the political parties have presence there, they have their own parties as well,
their own PM, their own Assembly then how come some one can score it 7???

Even I have been there many times and its even better than other parts of Pakistan if security is the concern.


Most of all they don't want separation from Pakistan and they donot protest just because they are not suppressed!!!

And that doesn't require much of logical calculations and common sense to understand that these signs show people are happy. But some super natural human species possessing average minds can't digest it.
 
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The soul of this report considers Kashmir as an Independant state whereas both India and Pakistan consider it part of their country on either side of the border.

But the only difference is on Pakistani side Pakistanis consider kashmir part of Pakistan and kashmiris too consider that kashmir is part of Pakistan.

Where as on the other side of border its just one sided love, or passion of occupation.

This freaking report mentions that many ministers and politicians in AJK are from Pakistan but it completely forgot or it was not in their pocket sized knowledge book that there are many Kashmiris who are politicians but they stand from other parts of Pakistan, because citizen of a country can do anything from any part of the country.

And kashmir and Pakistan are separate only on papers, we all consider kashmir part of Pakistan, let it be our kashmiri brothers or non-kashmiris of Pakistan.

This is the proof of situation on our side of border and just as it sounds it is Azad Kashmir.:pakistan:

Infact, there is no need of such report. Since people living there are happy & satisfied!!

JAB MIYAAN BIWI RAAZI TO KYA KAREGA QAZI
 
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documentary ...........its a BS :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
I disagree. The documentary is not BS, but that thread has certainly turned into.
The documentary shows difficulties faces by Kashmiris because of violence. In one of the clip, procession shown is of National Conference against PDP. The video was shot in 2006-07, and shows what goes on in any conflict zone.

If there is a suspected terrorist, Police will do crackdowns - How else to you conduct COIN Ops - with civilian presence which can be used as human shields?? Even in Pakistan - They moved millions of civilians to clear out the area They will be compensated by the government for their losses, but seeing your home destroyed is a traumatic for anyone. They have to sustain these hardships because of hegemonic intention of a hostile neighbour. This has turned into ordeal of Kashmiris because of the terrorist activities of Pakistani supported organizations like LeT, Huji, JuD etc.
 
@Materialistic

You have to be objective when you say Kashmiris too consider Kashmir part of Pakistan. This is not the reality when you look at the majority point of view. There is also a strong section of Kashmiris in Pakistan as well who are fighting for an independant J&K. Besides given the option-atleast on the Indian side- between just India and Pakistan, there is good possibility that Pakistan may lose out and I am talking about the muslims alone here. If you add the Buddhists and Hindu vote then you can see which side it would tilt


Here is a flashback for you, which I think you should re-read, along with the results of an independent public opinion survey done in 2008-09 by an Irish professor.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/45649-profiling-j-k-police.html#post644984
 
@Materialistic

You have to be objective when you say Kashmiris too consider Kashmir part of Pakistan. This is not the reality when you look at the majority point of view. There is also a strong section of Kashmiris in Pakistan as well who are fighting for an independant J&K. Besides given the option-atleast on the Indian side- between just India and Pakistan, there is good possibility that Pakistan may lose out and I am talking about the muslims alone here. If you add the Buddhists and Hindu vote then you can see which side it would tilt


Here is a flashback for you, which I think you should re-read, along with the results of an independent public opinion survey done in 2008-09 by an Irish professor.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/45649-profiling-j-k-police.html#post644984

what is the source of this poll ?
 
lol ok why not ask UN to conduct a poll themselves so kashmiris can deciede wat they want for themselves?
india afraid
 
lol ok why not ask UN to conduct a poll themselves so kashmiris can deciede wat they want for themselves?
india afraid

Yes the plebiscite will be conducted once the millions of Hindu Pandits who were chased out of the valley by ur "freedom fighters" will return to their homes and the settlers in ur AJK from other parts of Pakistan are sent back to their original places.
 

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