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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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It is foolish to go to war just for Kashmir, just as it is foolish to go to war just for NE region. All of this lies with India's fantasy of "Ahkand Bharat", so the solution is to awaken Indian from her illusory dreams.

Even then India "wants something for nothing", i.e. for India to give up part of Kashmir and part of NE region, she needs to get something in return. Note that I said "part" of Kashmir and "part" of NE region, as India will be very stubborn to return all illegal land. China is offering land next to Kashmir in a land-swap.

Regarding Pakistan, Kashmir can be divided based on "predominately muslim areas". Also knowing that bharat's end goal is to create a "Greater India", by offering ASEAN-like unity (with possibility leading to future unification). This will make everyone in Asia happy!


"It is foolish to go to war just for Kashmir, just as it is foolish to go to war just for NE region."-SinoIndusFriendship

I strongly disagree, Kashmir as many Kashmiris would agree is apart of Pakistan (some want complete independence or semi-autonomy). So Pakistan is fighting for it's homeland, Pakistan is resisting an occupation on it's homeland, against Indian hegemony and imperialism which has for 60 years infringed on both Kashmiris and in a larger context Pakistan.


Would China not fight for Manchuria? Would China not fight or resist occupation and military aggression against Hong Kong? Would China simply allow it's encirclement to go unchecked and not fight back? (Rhetorical questions)

Sure maybe Gen. Muhammad bin Qasim should not have waged Jihad in the region...My friends this struggle for Kashmir is a continuation of our great Islamic legacy. Besides that, it is one of the most horrific occupations and humanitarian crisis in the World, since the 'Warsaw ghetto'.

So it is absolutely not foolish to go to war for Kashmir, in fact we have done so at least 2 times (1947 &1965), not to mention other armed conflicts...


"Regarding Pakistan, Kashmir can be divided based on "predominately muslim areas"."

No, you are not allowed to divide up the Kashmiri homeland, this will not solve the problem. In fact, it would generate more problems. It would be difficult to govern, conduct trade and business, import and export, and so on because it would make Kashmir a dis integral body of land, kind of like what Palestine is today "Gaza and West Bank"...
 
See you're at fault for not holding the plebiscite for 62 years, you want to be rewarded for that? Heck heads should roll for this crime.

Then the plebiscite is for Kashmir, there was no expiration date on the plebiscite. There's no statute of limitations that has expired. One thing's for sure, your statement is a testament that if given the chance to vote, Kashmir would boot out India. That is what makes Indians wimp and cower over the very thought of plebiscite.

wasn't Pakistan supposed to demilitarize the PAK region for the plebiscite to be held?
under more than one clause...it is mentioned that India was supposed to supervise the plebiscite with Pakistan creating conditions for a fair plebiscite to be held by removing it's armed personnel for PAK.1965...showed your impatience....and made a manageable dispute difficult....kashmir henceforth became rightly or wrongly a part of the "desh ki dharti" to be protected by sweat and blood.
 
So what is your resolution or plan to solve the Kashmir issue? With the end result of Kashmir being fully liberated, not half, not partial, but fully.

Pakistan, China and India should first sit on the negotiation table together in order to achieve anything in the long run for the future of Kashmir. We must first agree on a mutual understanding of the Kashmir issue before we can even think of a military escalation.

After that, we must agree to a fully independent and transparent vote process in Kashmir which would make sure that the Kashmiri people are given a right to vote without the influence of the heavily stationed Indian Army in the region. Such a process could be observed by civil organizations from all three concerned parties (Pakistan, China and India) as all of them share territory with the disputed region.

Chances of this turning to a nuclear war maybe quite limited as it will be India with the most to lose and in fact annihilated. You know if India even brings nuclear weapons into the equations imagine the immense nuclear response of China and Pakistan against India, India would become a hotbed of radioactivity, it cannot afford to take such measures... The goal of the joint-military operation is to liberate Kashmir not to necessarily destroy all of India, if that were the goal then perhaps it would be reasonable for India to use nuclear weapons, as it's life would be on the line and ability to function day to day...

On paper, it sounds like a feasible solution. But in reality, In order to conduct a join-operation such as the one you propose, Pakistan must first eliminate all the terrorist organizations running wild in the FATA belt and the Baluchistan province. Pakistan Military is based on a defensive doctrine and in order to aim for an offensive, we must first ensure that terrorist elements threatening the unity of our country are taken care of. You cannot afford to order a "Conventional" full scale military operation against an enemy thrice as large, without the full strength of your army.

Nukes aside, what if you aren't able to successfully achieve your objective in time and the terrorists outfits in your North-Western province and Baluchistan take the entire state head on? What if there's a possibility that an alliance is formed by your enemies while you're busy at a new front?


This is true that "nobody likes loosing their territory", but if India introduces Nuclear weapons into the equation, then how would it like to loose all of it's nation? See there is a bigger price to be paid on India's behalf. They can afford to loose Kashmir (geographically, politically, and militarily speaking), obviously it's not theirs...

The way times are moving forward, pretty soon India would have a reliable second-strike capability inducted in its military. The Nuclear Submarines. You annihilate India, and India will throw everything in her reserve at you using alternate methods. At that point, it wouldn't matter if we've annihilated India, but that India was successful enough in wiping off one of our own cities.

You must understand yes this is a nasty business, yes it is bloody, yes it is tricky, yes it is very dangerous, but the success rate is on Pakistan-China side (referring to the Sino-Pakistan joint-military operation).

I completely understand what you're proposing but in my opinion, such an operation is highly unlikely due to the reasons I've listed above.

P.S I did not post my complete plan or analysis for privacy and secrecy reasons, simply don't want to discuss it in the public forum. I assure you there is more to the strategy then what I have publicly proposed...

Here's what an ISI official once told me about us as individuals (The Awaam, the People) acting like experts and armchair generals...

"If YOU believe that there's an UNDISPUTED solution to a national or global problem, and think that it will work for ALL the right reasons, then be sure that at the very top of the Governments and the decision makers, sit the most intelligent, cunning, brave and the most educated of the lot, who've probably thought about your solution already and probably discarded it a hundred times."

In short, China is emerging as a super power and until she reaches that status, she will not conduct such an operation for the sake of Kashmir, Pakistan or anyone else for that matter because it would ultimately eliminate her rise as a super power. And without China's help, Pakistan cannot risk putting its military and national security on the line against a much larger enemy in size. You're not talking small time skirmishes here, you're talking about a full scale conventional war which has all the reasons to turn nuclear in the end.
 
wasn't Pakistan supposed to demilitarize the PAK region for the plebiscite to be held?
under more than one clause...it is mentioned that India was supposed to supervise the plebiscite with Pakistan creating conditions for a fair plebiscite to be held by removing it's armed personnel for PAK.1965...showed your impatience....and made a manageable dispute difficult....kashmir henceforth became rightly or wrongly a part of the "desh ki dharti" to be protected by sweat and blood.
Again with this purported lie. It feels like all of India comes pre-programmed with this.

The demilitarization is from both sides, Pakistan agreed India didn't.

UNSC resolution 47 of 21 April 1948 called for "the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani national not normally resident therein" and the reduction of Indian forces in the state to "minimum strength required" in order to facilitate a plebiscite. The Security Council modified its decision by resolution 98 of 23 December 1952, which provided for synchronized reduction of troops on both sides of the ceasefire line to 3000 to 6000 on the Pakistani side and 12000 to 18000 on the Indian side. Pakistan agreed while India did not. India's reluctance to demilitarize the State of Jammu and Kashmir was confirmed by Sir Owen Dixon, Head of the UN Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP), in his report to the Security Council on 15 September 1950. He sated that, "in the end I became convinced that India's agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any form or to provisions governing the period of plebiscite of an such character, as would in my opinion, permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation and other forms of influence and abuse by which freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled".
Azad Jammu and Kashmir - Kashmir in United Nations



Urges the Governments of India and Pakistan to enter into immediate negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan in order to reach agreement on the specific number of forces to remain on each side of the cease-fire line at the end of the period of demilitarisation, this number to be between 3,000 and 6,000 armed forces remaining on the Pakistan side of the cease-fire line and between 12,000 and 18,000 armed forces remaining on the India side of the cease-line, as suggested by the United Nations Representative in his proposals of 16 July
1952, such specific numbers to be arrived at bearing in mind the principles or criteria contained in paragraph 7 of the United Nations Representative's proposal of 4 September 1952;

Kashmir, UN Security Council Resolution 98

We agreed to 3 times more men on your side. It is clear that an administrative force was to be kept in Kashmir according to the UN resolutions. So there is nothing that Pakistan violated, India and only India is responsible for the subjugation of freedom in Kashmir.
 
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Pakistan, China and India should first sit on the negotiation table together in order to achieve anything in the long run for the future of Kashmir. We must first agree on a mutual understanding of the Kashmir issue before we can even think of a military escalation.

After that, we must agree to a fully independent and transparent vote process in Kashmir which would make sure that the Kashmiri people are given a right to vote without the influence of the heavily stationed Indian Army in the region. Such a process could be observed by civil organizations from all three concerned parties (Pakistan, China and India) as all of them share territory with the disputed region.



On paper, it sounds like a feasible solution. But in reality, In order to conduct a join-operation such as the one you propose, Pakistan must first eliminate all the terrorist organizations running wild in the FATA belt and the Baluchistan province. Pakistan Military is based on a defensive doctrine and in order to aim for an offensive, we must first ensure that terrorist elements threatening the unity of our country are taken care of. You cannot afford to order a "Conventional" full scale military operation against an enemy thrice as large, without the full strength of your army.

Nukes aside, what if you aren't able to successfully achieve your objective in time and the terrorists outfits in your North-Western province and Baluchistan take the entire state head on? What if there's a possibility that an alliance is formed by your enemies while you're busy at a new front?




The way times are moving forward, pretty soon India would have a reliable second-strike capability inducted in its military. The Nuclear Submarines. You annihilate India, and India will throw everything in her reserve at you using alternate methods. At that point, it wouldn't matter if we've annihilated India, but that India was successful enough in wiping off one of our own cities.



I completely understand what you're proposing but in my opinion, such an operation is highly unlikely due to the reasons I've listed above.



Here's what an ISI official once told me about us as individuals (The Awaam, the People) acting like experts and armchair generals...

"If YOU believe that there's an UNDISPUTED solution to a national or global problem, and think that it will work for ALL the right reasons, then be sure that at the very top of the Governments and the decision makers, sit the most intelligent, cunning, brave and the most educated of the lot, who've probably thought about your solution already and probably discarded it a hundred times."

In short, China is emerging as a super power and until she reaches that status, she will not conduct such an operation for the sake of Kashmir, Pakistan or anyone else for that matter because it would ultimately eliminate her rise as a super power. And without China's help, Pakistan cannot risk putting its military and national security on the line against a much larger enemy in size. You're not talking small time skirmishes here, you're talking about a full scale conventional war which has all the reasons to turn nuclear in the end.




Pakistan, China and India should first sit on the negotiation table together in order to achieve anything in the long run for the future of Kashmir. We must first agree on a mutual understanding of the Kashmir issue before we can even think of a military escalation.

After that, we must agree to a fully independent and transparent vote process in Kashmir which would make sure that the Kashmiri people are given a right to vote without the influence of the heavily stationed Indian Army in the region. Such a process could be observed by civil organizations from all three concerned parties (Pakistan, China and India) as all of them share territory with the disputed region.


Yes well some in China are saying (publicly) it should be negotiated "bi-laterally" by Pakistan and India. Also Pakistan, has tried many times to negotiate with India, India doesn't even consider "Kashmir" a 'disputed territory' so they don't really see it as a legitimate occupation issue...

Also I think your resolution is naive, unless a miraculous Indian administration comes along that will finally fulfill the Plebiscite Indian PM Nehru promised in 1947-48. India would never agree to a plebiscite as it knows what the outcome would be, they are not interested in 'real forms' of democracy in what is really a disputed territory. But let me say this, one thing that can never be disputed by anyone is that Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris.


On paper, it sounds like a feasible solution. But in reality, In order to conduct a join-operation such as the one you propose, Pakistan must first eliminate all the terrorist organizations running wild in the FATA belt and the Baluchistan province. Pakistan Military is based on a defensive doctrine and in order to aim for an offensive, we must first ensure that terrorist elements threatening the unity of our country are taken care of. You cannot afford to order a "Conventional" full scale military operation against an enemy thrice as large, without the full strength of your army.

"terrorist organizations running wild in the FATA belt and the Baluchistan province."-Bezerk

Yes and those same terrorist are being funded and supported by foreign entities hostile to Pakistan, one of those entities happens to be a country occupying Kashmir. So, let's kill two birds with one stone ;)

Besides, from what I understand the military operations in FATA belt are very successful and are progressing positively so that issue will be resolved by Pakistani military, InshAllah.


"Nukes aside, what if you aren't able to successfully achieve your objective in time and the terrorists outfits in your North-Western province and Baluchistan take the entire state head on? What if there's a possibility that an alliance is formed by your enemies while you're busy at a new front? "

These are legitimate worries, so I ask you where are these terrorist getting there funding from? Who are these terrorist agents working for? Where do they get their support from? Our own IA has answered this question quite clearly and clearly the enemy is meddling both in our region and territories.


"In short, China is emerging as a super power and until she reaches that status, she will not conduct such an operation for the sake of Kashmir, Pakistan or anyone else for that matter because it would ultimately eliminate her rise as a super power."

Good point. There are other means of support China can certainly provide. This is a public forum so that is all I will say about this point...
 
For how long the educated, intelligent and open minded Indians are going to deny facts??

Please open your eyes and see what Kashimiris want.



If India gave up Kashmir, than do you think Pakistan will not interfere in that Kashmir??

i don't think so.

:usflag::coffee::pop:
 
......

Would China not fight for Manchuria? Would China not fight or resist occupation and military aggression against Hong Kong? Would China simply allow it's encirclement to go unchecked and not fight back? (Rhetorical questions)

.........

Russia already illegally occupies Chinese Siberia and large swaths of Manchuria (which they call Vladistok).

Russia in last 100 years expanded eastwards and through military wars fought with China and took Mongolia, Siberia and Manchuria --- all of these areas are much, MUCH larger than entire Pakistan. Russia's population is small so returning stolen land is not a "big deal" for them.

But you gotta think big picture, for majority benefit. You see Soviet Russia built these "monotowns" from the stolen land, based on 1 or 2 key industries (such is mining, steel, coal) and they have not built a sustainable nor dynamic economy -- nor have they "integrated" the local Chinese/Mongolian/Inuit community.

China (actually it's just me talking) would like to re-integrate these land peacefully while maintaining partnership with Russia. Those Russians living in those area would be given Chinese citizenship if they choose to, or they can choose to relocate to Russia -- they will be compensated FAIRLY for their house/land so they can buy one in Russia (or anywhere on planet). :china: This is only my suggestion. Furthermore, China is better capable of utilizing the land and the people who choose to stay will have better lives (and their decendents as well). China has proven this with her 56 ethnic groups --- In fact China was ALWAYS "multi-ethnic" since it's founding 10,000+ years ago (the Dragon is the symbol of different tribes/clans/peoples joining as one!).

All of this can be achieved without war, albeit it will happen NATURALLY and SLOWLY. Russia returns to her natural boundaries and China regains her natural boundaries.

The only source of resistance is GREED. People want to keep the land REGARDLESS THAT IT WAS STOLEN THROUGH WAR. Another fine example is US-Mexico. Nearly half of Mexico was taken by USA through a series of wars in last several hundred years. But now Mexicans are reclaiming their land peacefully. The "illegal Mexicans" you hear about are not really "illegal", they are only living in THEIR land.

Bottom line is GREED. If we learn to SHARE then all this fighting won't be necessary. But first we must accept other races as the same 'class' of human beings as us --- but this has proven over EONS to be easier said than done. :smitten:
 
Sigh ... back to this old issue. 200 people waving Pakistani flags doesn't prove anything. There will always be Talibanized elements, even in J&K.

Plebiscite in Indian Kashmir cannot be held as a matter of principle. Separatists are welcome to contest elections to demonstrate their support. If they win elections that would be a great moral victory for them. They always have the option of not taking the oath.

The contrast is really striking - on the Indian side, India wants separatists to contest elections but they don't have the guts, being worried about their hollowness being exposed. On the other hand, on the Pakistani side, parties like JKLF want to participate in elections but Pakistan does not allow them to do so, because they refuse to support merger with Pakistan.
 
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This article by Asif Ezdi seems to reflect current thinking of Pakistani establishment. Apparently the idea is to go back on the Musharraf-Manmohan agreement and escalate armed action. This is borne out by facts on the ground - there has been a sharp escalation in infiltration, with many terrorists being shot on the LoC.

If the Pakistani establishment adopts this policy, it would be a serious misjudgment. India will have no choice but to crush terrorism by force, and even the current social climate in Kashmir does not support violent separatism.

Rebuilding national consensus on Kashmir
Rebuilding national consensus on Kashmir
Saturday, August 15, 2009
Asif Ezdi

The writer is a former member of the Foreign Service

Pakistan’s Kashmir policy rested for more than five decades (1948-2003) on a national consensus. The essence of this consensus was that a Kashmir settlement must be based on the right of self-determination of the Kashmiri people, to be exercised in accordance with UN Security Council resolutions. While maintaining this position of principle, Pakistani governments have also been willing to consider a partition of the state in which India would keep Ladakh, the Vale of Kashmir would join Pakistan and Jammu would be divided.

This consensus was broken by Musharraf in several steps he took between 2003 and 2007. For the first time, a Pakistani government publicly gave up the demand for a plebiscite under UN resolutions and proposed a settlement based on the current territorial status quo, leaving not only Ladakh but also the Vale and the Muslim-majority areas of Jammu in Indian hands.

Musharraf’s retreat from Pakistan’s traditional stand on Kashmir started shortly before the Islamabad Summit of January 2004. In an interview with Reuters (December 2003), Musharraf said: “We are for United Nations Security Council Resolutions. However, now we have left that aside.” At the Summit, Vajpayee agreed to the resumption of the composite dialogue in return for Musharraf’s assurance that he would not permit any territory under Pakistan’s control to be used to support terrorism. In backchannel talks on Kashmir which started after the Summit, Musharraf also virtually agreed to make the LoC a permanent border. This was the essence of the “settlement” that would have been signed during a visit of the Indian prime minister to Pakistan. That visit could not take place because of the political turmoil in Pakistan following the dismissal of the Chief Justice in March 2007.

As explained by Musharraf in an interview with an Indian TV channel in July, the four elements of the settlement were: (a) making the LoC “irrelevant”—i.e., converting it into a soft border; (b) demilitarisation of the LoC and withdrawal of the Indian military from two or three cities like Srinagar and Baramulla; (c) “self-government” for the two parts of the state divided by the LoC; and (d) a joint body comprising Kashmiris from both sides, Pakistan and India, to oversee “whatever was not devolved to the people of Kashmir.”

While Musharraf backtracked from Pakistan’s long-held stand, India has maintained a consistent position. Since the ouster of Sheikh Abdullah from power in 1953, if not even earlier, Delhi has unofficially been agreeable to a partitioning of the state along the ceasefire line, with minor adjustments. Nehru suggested such a settlement in a meeting with US Secretary of State Dulles in May 1953. This proposal was also made by India in the Bhutto-Swaran Singh talks held in 1962-63 but was flatly rejected by Pakistan. This was at a time when India’s hold on the state seemed to be largely unchallenged by the local population. Four decades later, and in the middle of a sustained popular uprising against Indian occupation which more than half-a-million Indian troops have been unable to quell, Musharraf agreed to a settlement on these lines.

Having missed the chance to clinch this deal with Musharraf, Manmohan Singh took steps last year before the Bombay attacks to “reconnect the backchannel” with the new government, as Steve Coll wrote in an article in the New Yorker magazine (March 2, 2009). According to this article, Manmohan Singh was concerned, in particular, about whether Zardari would be willing to continue the talks and whether Pakistan would stand by the non-paper worked out in these talks, or insist on renegotiating. Privately, in discussions with Indian officials, Zardari affirmed his interest in picking up the backchannel negotiations, the magazine wrote.

The article also said that India’s response to the Bombay attacks was “restrained” because “Singh, and at least some of his civilian counterparts in Pakistan, hope to find their way back to the non-paper.” Were it not for these talks, Coll wrote, the Indian reaction might not have been so measured. India’s keenness to return to the Kashmir non-paper also explains why Manmohan Singh agreed with Gilani at Sharm el-Sheikh last month to delink the terrorism issue from a resumption of the composite dialogue.

Maleeha Lodhi wrote in an artcile in this newspaper (Aug 4) that Kashmir is at a crossroads. Actually it is not Kashmir but Pakistan’s Kashmir policy that is at a crossroads. The Kashmiris have made their choice. They want azadi. It is the Pakistani government which has to decide whether it will support their aspirations or make a deal with Delhi that perpetuates their enslavement by India.

Bruce Riedel, who led a review of the US AfPak strategy for Obama, was recently quoted by Reuters as saying that western diplomats (read United States) would like to see Pakistan and India getting back into the position they reached in 2007. He said the non-paper prepared in backchannel talks was a “good deal for Pakistan, for India, for the Kashmiris.”

Our policymakers do not tire of calling for an American role in a resolution of the Kashmir issue, but oddly they do not seem to realise that any American involvement will be aimed at a settlement on the basis of the territorial status quo, as Riedel indicated. If we are prepared for such a solution, we do not need American involvement, because this is what the Indians themselves are offering. If we want another solution, we should not be inviting Washington to play a role.

The present government in Pakistan has not yet made clear whether it intends to take forward the process started by Musharraf through the backchannel. The only thing that we know is that the government would like to resume the composite dialogue with India and would like these talks to cover a resolution of the Kashmir issue. But we do not know what kind of a settlement the government is hoping to achieve. This lack of clarity is the result of confused thinking – or lack of thinking – at the senior levels of government. As a result, our Kashmir policy today is aimless, directionless and muddled.

Musharraf departed from the old national consensus on Kashmir when he proposed a settlement that would legitimise the present territorial status quo. Even worse, he also betrayed the Kashmir freedom movement, and did so at a time when a new generation of Kashmiris tempered by two decades of resistance to the brutalities of the occupation forces has taken charge. This generation is more determined than any earlier one to wrest azadi from the Indian occupiers. The more India uses force to suppress it, the stronger the freedom movement will become. India can delay azadi for some time, maybe by a couple of decades or a little longer, but cannot stop it.

This is the ground reality on which a new national consensus on Kashmir must be founded. Holding a dialogue with India on Kashmir before forging this consensus would be like putting the cart before the horse. First and foremost, there must be a rejection of the deal made by Musharraf in backchannel talks with India. Since the present international environment is not favourable for a just settlement of Kashmir, our aim in a resumed composite dialogue should be the maximum possible alleviation of the conditions of Indian occupation in order to allow the Kashmiris to carry on their movement peacefully.

As a signal of our support to the Kashmiri people, we should also revert to our earlier policy, which Musharraf reversed in 2004, of providing moral, political and diplomatic support to their struggle for self-determination and of mobilising international opinion against Indian atrocities and human-rights violations. The prime minister should start by raising these issues forcefully in an address to the UN General Assembly at its next session in September. (Since Zardari himself would not like to miss the opportunity of a junket to New York – his last visit was as many as three months ago in May – Gilani will have to advise him, in exercise of his constitutional powers, against undertaking the visit).

Email: asifezdi@yahoo.com
 
IMHO, the Musharraf-Manmohan formula can work - maximum autonomy for both sides (including northern areas), progressive reduction in troop levels after violence reduction, open borders (people should be allowed to cross freely with biometric smart cards), and consultative arrangements for issues of common concern (such as river water).

Currently, Indian side feels talks should not restart without action on 26/11 terrorists, whereas Pakistani establishment apparently does not want to act against 26/11 terrorists and wants to go back on the Musharraf-Manmohan formula.
 
India can give full autonomy under indian constitution protecting civil liberties, to the vally and *** (theoritically) as promised to Shiek Abdulla earlier and and also take out Jammu and Laddak regions as new state and a union territory respectively.I were the pm....i would gone for this plan.:cheers:
 
Musharaf not only lost two worlds himself but he made millions of People suffer in Pakistan and Kashmir because of his "wise" and "patriotic" policies. What kind of soldier was he who gave up life of Hundred Thousand sacrifices of Kashmirs and Pakistan's stance in the United Nations? Who did Musharraf fight for? for Kashmirs? for Pakistanis? The dumb head went for Karghil and upon return lied down aganst Indians to "do" him and rest of the country under his rule?

Its time for us to start supporting Kashmirs again. They are Pakistani People, the Muslim Blood that is being crushed under Military Shoes. Who is stopping us claiming for what belongs to us? The "Night" has shed, Musharaf is history.. I request the present Government to go back to the stance that BB and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Had. Zulfiqar Ali, the sword of Hazrat Ali and look what "followers" of him we have now.. people who call Indian attempt to invade border as "Technical Mistake" and have owned Qassab who's nationality is still not proven.. Shame on you Zardari.. Shame on you Yusuf Raza Gillani and Shame us including me who has is sitting in home and letting this bull-**** government hold on to the seat!
 

SRINAGAR: Kashmiris are observing India’s Independence Day as Black Day, today, featured with complete strike in occupied Kashmir.

The major cities of the valley are giving a deserted look with the closure of all business establishments and traffic off the roads.

The administration of held Valley put Hurriyat leaders Ali Gilani, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Abdul Ghani Butt, Yaseen Malik and others under house arrest.

The call for the strike has been given by the Chairman of All Parties Hurriyet Conference, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and illegally detained senior Kashmiri Hurriyet leader, Syed Ali Gilani.

Kashmiris are observing the Black Day on India’s Independence Day to convey to the world that the people of Kashmir have been deprived of their birthright to self-determination for the last sixty-three years. They will hoist black flags on the rooftops and remain indoors to mark the day.
 

Updated at: 1711 PST, Saturday, August 15, 2009
SRINAGAR: The Kashmiris on both sides of Line of Control Saturday observed India's Independence Day as black day to register severe indignation and hatred against India and to protest against the escalation of human rights abuses by the Indian troops against the innocent Kashmiris struggling for their right to self-determination in the held valley.

Indian police under state terrorism martyred four innocent Kashmiri youth in Reasi district in occupied Kashmir. According to Kashmir Media Service, troops of 59 Rashtriya Rifles during siege and search operation killed Shabir Ahmed Chopan, Nazir Ahmed Sheikh, Ghulam Mohi-ud-Din and Abdul Rashid at Kund in Mahore area of the district.

Call for observing the Indian Independence Day as black day coupled with complete strike was given by All Parties Hurriyat Conference and other freedom and human rights-loving organization and supported by AJK government to apprise the international community of their traditional hatred against India and the importance of early peaceful settlement of the Kashmir dispute besides to urge the external world to fulfill its due responsibilities.

Anti-India rallies followed by protest processions in all small and major cities and towns in Indian held Jammu Kashmir were the hall mark of the day. All shops and business centers remained closed and traffic stayed off the roads to observe the Indian Independence Day as Black day. Participants of the protest rallies wore black bands around their arms and heads to express hatred against India. Black flags were hoisted atop the buildings by the protesting Kashmiris at both sides of the LoC.

In Azad Jammu and Kashmir, anti-India rallies were staged and processions brought out in all small and major cities including AJK's capital city of Muzaffarabad and all other eight district headquarters of Mirpur, Kotli, Bagh, Bhimbher, Palandri, Rawalakot, Havaili and Neelam valley by the people belonging to all walks of life to reiterate severe hatred against the Indian imperialism.

Addressing the rallies, the speakers highlighted Kashmiris continued feelings of severe hatred against India besides vehemently condemning the continued forcible Indian occupation over bulk of Jammu & Kashmir state at the might of her seven and half lakh military and paramilitary forces.

They called upon the world community and international organizations of human rights including United Nations to perform their due role to get the Kashmir issue resolved without further loss of time. They said that supreme sacrifices of Kashmiri martyrs will soon bear fruits.
 
Sigh ... back to this old issue. 200 people waving Pakistani flags doesn't prove anything. There will always be Talibanized elements, even in J&K.

Absolute nonsense that Taliban elements are responsible or there is limited support!

Read this below from Indian media:

SAMAY LIVE:

Separatists strike call paralyses normal life in Kashmir

Published: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 at 17:33 ISTF

Normal life remained crippled today across Kashmir valley in view of strike called by separatists.

Most of the shops and business establishments remained closed and transport off the roads in Srinagar and all major towns of the valley, in response to strike call given by separatists and militant outfits.

Separatists including moderate faction of Hurriyat headed by Mirwaiz Umer Farooq called for strike as they want resolution of the Kashmir issue through peaceful talks.
Authorities had made tight security throughout the valley to ensure that the day passed off peacefully.

In Srinagar, the main road leading to the Bakshi stadium the venue of the Independence Day function was closed.

Separatists strike call paralyses normal life in Kashmir :: Samay Live
 

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