BlackSonic
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And how they are going to do it ???
I am sure they are not using GAndhigiri.
Kashmir | News & Discussions.
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I am sure they are not using GAndhigiri.
Goodperson
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And how they are going to do it ???
Strike the innocents and blame it on IA.
notsuperstitious
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India always betrayed Pakistan: Hafiz Saeed - GEO.tv
LAHORE: Banned Jamat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed says that India has always betrayed Pakistan in the name of talks.
Addressing a Kashmir Solidarity Rally here on Friday, he has asked Indian Home Minister Chidambaram to meet him first in Lahore before heading to Islamabad.
Earlier, he led a rally from Chobrgi to Punjab Assembly to mark the Kashmir Solidarity Day. The participants of the rally were holding placards inscribed with Kashmir slogans.
“While the United States failed to stay in Afghanistan then how could India remain in Kashmir,” he said.
The JuD chief stated India has always deceived Pakistan in the name of dialogue.
Comment - Non state actors holding open rallies? The old plausible deniability? No more, there'll be price to pay.
LAHORE: Banned Jamat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed says that India has always betrayed Pakistan in the name of talks.
Addressing a Kashmir Solidarity Rally here on Friday, he has asked Indian Home Minister Chidambaram to meet him first in Lahore before heading to Islamabad.
Earlier, he led a rally from Chobrgi to Punjab Assembly to mark the Kashmir Solidarity Day. The participants of the rally were holding placards inscribed with Kashmir slogans.
“While the United States failed to stay in Afghanistan then how could India remain in Kashmir,” he said.
The JuD chief stated India has always deceived Pakistan in the name of dialogue.
Comment - Non state actors holding open rallies? The old plausible deniability? No more, there'll be price to pay.
Hi PAFAce,
No matter how noble the intentions of the militants, when they are not under control of state forces or made accountable for their actions they quickly devolve to armed groups causing havoc. Its the same for groups who do it in the name of Islam as well.
As I have mentioned previously, the bulk of local Kashmiri fighters who had a pro-independance secular outlook (It even had Hindu and sikh kashmiri militants) gave up the fight with the end of JKLF's militancy. They gave up violence in 95 and among other reasons, they were targeted by more fanatic groups like Hizb, LeT and HUJI who were pro-pakistan.
Currently as per J&K govt. estimates, 95% of militants are foreigners.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/41603-95-militants-kashmir-outside-ghulam-nabi-azad.html
Infact many former Kashmiri militants who surrendered made up part of the J&K police and the SOG. Some took shelter under a general amnesty and rehab program launched by the Mufit govt. Because of this many militants who were hiding out in the PAkistani side surrendered on the border to return home.
Some stories are here
24 militants from other side ‘return’ home
Kashmiri militants in PaK want to return home
Kashmiri youth languishing in Pak militant camps desperate to return home
Infact, more muslims are killed in militant attacks (partly because its easier to target the police rather than army or paramilitary forcers). These also include pro-India politicians and govt. officials, anti-militant villagers as well as the regular folks that die when suicide bombing or car bombs are detonated.Moreover, we have the disgruntled locals who tipoff the police and who have been intimidated and coerced into providing shelter and food or to "marry" of their daughters to militants. These civilians are called "spies" and "munafiqs" and fair game to be killed.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...lled-kashmir-militants-kashmiri-official.html
Another recent report where LeT has "suspended" its operation against security force (Looks like they are not man enough to fight them?) and have taken the task to target the "spies" within i.e. the local civilians
LeT posters in Kishtwar
With the advent of foreign militants, mainly Pakistani, but also chechen uzbek and afghan militants, the situation got more and more brutal. This article from 2004 lists a few such cases.
Kashmir, Where Beheadings Also Strike Fear: Asia times online
And if we had any doubts on where the militancy was headed, here is a report in 2001 where Laskar-e-Jabar announced acid attacks on girls and women who didn't wear the "Islamic dress"
BBC News|South Asia|Kashmir women face acid attacks
Is this really shocking that the "Kashmiri mujahideen" could be so brutal? The situation on the ground is that as long as the TTP types had an outlet in Kashmir they had nothing to do in Pakistan. Once Musharraf completely blocked their access to Kashmir, you saw the rise of extremists groups attacking GoP and PA itself. That is why I insist on calling them nothing but TTP clones. These militants are different from sepratists in Kashmir who don't take up violence like the Hurriyet group even though they might be some links. The Hurriyet party members consists of locals while foreigners make up the bulk of militants.
Now about the J&K police aiding the "occupiers". I would say that is a slippery slope. As I have mentioned previously, as long as the J&K govt. and GoI provides full freedom to practice and preach Islam, there is no cause for separatism Islamically and hence no Jihad either. This view is endoresed by many ulema including the Grand mufit of J&K and was interestingly also the view of Maududi the founder of JI. (However, JI under Qazi became the foremost to make a mess out of Kashmir once he established his monopoly on it)
The Hizb, LeT e.t.c are foreigners fighting to establish a so called "Islamic state" with sharia rule in Kashmir. So is the TTP in Pakistan and the Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan. And so is the East Turkistan movement in Xinjiang and the IMU in Uzbekistan.
This concept of political Islam itself is highly unIslamic. But that is a different topic. What I wanted to draw your attention to is that if J&K police who consist of locals and fight mainly foreign militants are some how aiding the occupiers then arn't the PA and GoP aiding the "occupiers" in Afghanistan? What about the drone attack and the NATO supplies? The Chinese govt. and any Chinese/Uighurs Muslim officials would be in the same boat.
The Kashmir solution can not and should not be resolved by giving into armed militant groups like LeT, Hizb e.t.c. because that will not only be problematic for India but even worse for Pakistan and surrounding areas as these extremists forces get a fillip.
Regarding BSF or Army officials or even J&K police committing human rights violation, they should be tried and punished if its true. There are even cases where J&K judiciary and GoI have gone to extradite former Army majors from the US to try them in court
Ex-major faces arrest for kidnap, murder charges
Similarly BSF and paramilitary officials do get arrested in some cases. However, I would admit that its not foolproof. And I hope you can understand that although J&K police should aim for a high standard there are bad apples and you will have cases of corruption, use of excessive force in the heat of the moment e.t.c. But to say that BSF or Army officials go scot free is wrong. Infact according to SOPs, Army or BSF or any other paramilitary force can't arrest or search property unless they are doing a join ops with the J&K police.
No matter how noble the intentions of the militants, when they are not under control of state forces or made accountable for their actions they quickly devolve to armed groups causing havoc. Its the same for groups who do it in the name of Islam as well.
As I have mentioned previously, the bulk of local Kashmiri fighters who had a pro-independance secular outlook (It even had Hindu and sikh kashmiri militants) gave up the fight with the end of JKLF's militancy. They gave up violence in 95 and among other reasons, they were targeted by more fanatic groups like Hizb, LeT and HUJI who were pro-pakistan.
Currently as per J&K govt. estimates, 95% of militants are foreigners.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/41603-95-militants-kashmir-outside-ghulam-nabi-azad.html
Infact many former Kashmiri militants who surrendered made up part of the J&K police and the SOG. Some took shelter under a general amnesty and rehab program launched by the Mufit govt. Because of this many militants who were hiding out in the PAkistani side surrendered on the border to return home.
Some stories are here
24 militants from other side ‘return’ home
Kashmiri militants in PaK want to return home
Kashmiri youth languishing in Pak militant camps desperate to return home
Infact, more muslims are killed in militant attacks (partly because its easier to target the police rather than army or paramilitary forcers). These also include pro-India politicians and govt. officials, anti-militant villagers as well as the regular folks that die when suicide bombing or car bombs are detonated.Moreover, we have the disgruntled locals who tipoff the police and who have been intimidated and coerced into providing shelter and food or to "marry" of their daughters to militants. These civilians are called "spies" and "munafiqs" and fair game to be killed.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmi...lled-kashmir-militants-kashmiri-official.html
Another recent report where LeT has "suspended" its operation against security force (Looks like they are not man enough to fight them?) and have taken the task to target the "spies" within i.e. the local civilians
LeT posters in Kishtwar
With the advent of foreign militants, mainly Pakistani, but also chechen uzbek and afghan militants, the situation got more and more brutal. This article from 2004 lists a few such cases.
Kashmir, Where Beheadings Also Strike Fear: Asia times online
And if we had any doubts on where the militancy was headed, here is a report in 2001 where Laskar-e-Jabar announced acid attacks on girls and women who didn't wear the "Islamic dress"
BBC News|South Asia|Kashmir women face acid attacks
Is this really shocking that the "Kashmiri mujahideen" could be so brutal? The situation on the ground is that as long as the TTP types had an outlet in Kashmir they had nothing to do in Pakistan. Once Musharraf completely blocked their access to Kashmir, you saw the rise of extremists groups attacking GoP and PA itself. That is why I insist on calling them nothing but TTP clones. These militants are different from sepratists in Kashmir who don't take up violence like the Hurriyet group even though they might be some links. The Hurriyet party members consists of locals while foreigners make up the bulk of militants.
Now about the J&K police aiding the "occupiers". I would say that is a slippery slope. As I have mentioned previously, as long as the J&K govt. and GoI provides full freedom to practice and preach Islam, there is no cause for separatism Islamically and hence no Jihad either. This view is endoresed by many ulema including the Grand mufit of J&K and was interestingly also the view of Maududi the founder of JI. (However, JI under Qazi became the foremost to make a mess out of Kashmir once he established his monopoly on it)
The Hizb, LeT e.t.c are foreigners fighting to establish a so called "Islamic state" with sharia rule in Kashmir. So is the TTP in Pakistan and the Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan. And so is the East Turkistan movement in Xinjiang and the IMU in Uzbekistan.
This concept of political Islam itself is highly unIslamic. But that is a different topic. What I wanted to draw your attention to is that if J&K police who consist of locals and fight mainly foreign militants are some how aiding the occupiers then arn't the PA and GoP aiding the "occupiers" in Afghanistan? What about the drone attack and the NATO supplies? The Chinese govt. and any Chinese/Uighurs Muslim officials would be in the same boat.
The Kashmir solution can not and should not be resolved by giving into armed militant groups like LeT, Hizb e.t.c. because that will not only be problematic for India but even worse for Pakistan and surrounding areas as these extremists forces get a fillip.
Regarding BSF or Army officials or even J&K police committing human rights violation, they should be tried and punished if its true. There are even cases where J&K judiciary and GoI have gone to extradite former Army majors from the US to try them in court
Ex-major faces arrest for kidnap, murder charges
Similarly BSF and paramilitary officials do get arrested in some cases. However, I would admit that its not foolproof. And I hope you can understand that although J&K police should aim for a high standard there are bad apples and you will have cases of corruption, use of excessive force in the heat of the moment e.t.c. But to say that BSF or Army officials go scot free is wrong. Infact according to SOPs, Army or BSF or any other paramilitary force can't arrest or search property unless they are doing a join ops with the J&K police.
Last edited:
Irked Omar complains to PC
KashmirTimes NEWS SERVICE
NEW DELHI, Feb 5: Irked by the repeated incidents of unprovoked firing and the killing of innocent youth in the Valley by security personnel particularly CRPF troopers thus creating a fresh spate of public rage against his government, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah today urged the Union Home Ministry to "discipline the Central Reserve Police Force."
According to the sources, the Chief Minister complained that the "indisciplined acts" of CRPF troopers were making it difficult for the government to handle the situation in the Valley which is presently on the boil.
The Chief Minister has registered this latest complaint with the Union Home Minister in the wake of killing of 16-year old Zahid Farooq Shah today reportedly in the unprovoked firing by CRPF troopers in the Valley.
Omar has reportedly told the Union Home Minister that there are vested interests hell bent creating trouble in the Valley yet the killing of innocents in firing by the troopers was turning the situation from bad to worse. Describing this as a major cause of concern, the Chief Minister has urged the Union Home Minister to discipline CRPF troopers and issue directions to them to "exercise restraint" while tackling the protesters.
The sources claimed that Omar is likely to take up these issues with the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and Union Home Minister P Chidambaram also during Chief Ministers' conclave scheduled to be held in the union capital this Sunday.
The Chief Ministers' conclave has been convened by the Union Home Minister and would be inaugurated by Prime Minister.
Meanwhile in a statement issued on behalf of the Chief Minister, it was claimed that he directed the Director General of Police to immediately move to Srinagar and personally supervise the police investigation into the killing of Zahid.
The Chief Minister, while expressing deep anguish over the killing of the young boy, said that the incidents of unprovoked, innocent killings will not be tolerated and whosoever is involved in such killings will be brought to book and doled out exemplary punishment so that it becomes a lesson and deterrent for others as well.
He reiterated that the state government was committed to zero tolerance of human rights violations and his government will punish those who violate the human rights. The Chief Minister also asked the entire administration to sensitize all ranks and files in the forces deployed in the state to exercise utmost restraint and not get provoked by the elements who want to disrupt peace and harmony in the state.
He said his government will not allow disruptive elements to create law and order situation in the state but at the same time will not tolerate any kind of human rights violations.
It is notable here that the state government on Thursday also registered a serious protest with the union Home Ministry vis-…-vis the remarks of Special Director General CRPF N K Tripathi about terror threat in Vaishnodevi.
"In case, they have any such intelligence inputs, they should have shared with us," the state government maintained while registering its protest.
KashmirTimes NEWS SERVICE
NEW DELHI, Feb 5: Irked by the repeated incidents of unprovoked firing and the killing of innocent youth in the Valley by security personnel particularly CRPF troopers thus creating a fresh spate of public rage against his government, Chief Minister Omar Abdullah today urged the Union Home Ministry to "discipline the Central Reserve Police Force."
According to the sources, the Chief Minister complained that the "indisciplined acts" of CRPF troopers were making it difficult for the government to handle the situation in the Valley which is presently on the boil.
The Chief Minister has registered this latest complaint with the Union Home Minister in the wake of killing of 16-year old Zahid Farooq Shah today reportedly in the unprovoked firing by CRPF troopers in the Valley.
Omar has reportedly told the Union Home Minister that there are vested interests hell bent creating trouble in the Valley yet the killing of innocents in firing by the troopers was turning the situation from bad to worse. Describing this as a major cause of concern, the Chief Minister has urged the Union Home Minister to discipline CRPF troopers and issue directions to them to "exercise restraint" while tackling the protesters.
The sources claimed that Omar is likely to take up these issues with the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and Union Home Minister P Chidambaram also during Chief Ministers' conclave scheduled to be held in the union capital this Sunday.
The Chief Ministers' conclave has been convened by the Union Home Minister and would be inaugurated by Prime Minister.
Meanwhile in a statement issued on behalf of the Chief Minister, it was claimed that he directed the Director General of Police to immediately move to Srinagar and personally supervise the police investigation into the killing of Zahid.
The Chief Minister, while expressing deep anguish over the killing of the young boy, said that the incidents of unprovoked, innocent killings will not be tolerated and whosoever is involved in such killings will be brought to book and doled out exemplary punishment so that it becomes a lesson and deterrent for others as well.
He reiterated that the state government was committed to zero tolerance of human rights violations and his government will punish those who violate the human rights. The Chief Minister also asked the entire administration to sensitize all ranks and files in the forces deployed in the state to exercise utmost restraint and not get provoked by the elements who want to disrupt peace and harmony in the state.
He said his government will not allow disruptive elements to create law and order situation in the state but at the same time will not tolerate any kind of human rights violations.
It is notable here that the state government on Thursday also registered a serious protest with the union Home Ministry vis-…-vis the remarks of Special Director General CRPF N K Tripathi about terror threat in Vaishnodevi.
"In case, they have any such intelligence inputs, they should have shared with us," the state government maintained while registering its protest.
Halaku Khan
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Most likely, that was an attack by Pakistani terrorists, in an effort to discredit Indian forces. See Boy shot dead by security force in Kashmir; CM orders high-level enquiry - dnaindia.com
Trichy
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“each one of the 17 crore Pakistanis would struggle step-for-step with the Kashmiris in the massacre of Indian soldiers until the last soldier is dead.”
Then what about 130 crore Indians Do ha ha ha..... don't say always blah blah blah mr. H. Syed, ur people only believe u that u single handle get the Kashmir from India. we know how important is Kashmir for Pakistan mind it... Just build more and more dams that's it, beware of it...already 4 on process....
Then what about 130 crore Indians Do ha ha ha..... don't say always blah blah blah mr. H. Syed, ur people only believe u that u single handle get the Kashmir from India. we know how important is Kashmir for Pakistan mind it... Just build more and more dams that's it, beware of it...already 4 on process....
baba firangi
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And how they are going to do it ???
Come on dude, whatz wrong with you?.. They told na, They will be using FORCE..
I am already scared.. Very scared.. The most powerful man on Earth has threatened to use FORCE.. You should all get scared too..
Dunno why people have to discuss each and every such crackpot on a defence forum.. Its just not worth it..
King Julien
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JuD should help PA liberate pakistan from ttp 
haawk
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http://ibnlive.in.com/news/2611-plotter-invites-chidambaram-for-composite-dialogue/109758-2.html?from=tn
well here comes the next(third) power center of pakistan......
first :army
second: civilian govt
third:terrorists,(and this time officially-they dont even care about the govt).
fourth:?????????????????
26/11 plotter invites Chidambaram for 'composite dialogue'
MASTERMIND: Hafiz Mohammad Saeed is the key conspirator in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.
Lahore: Even as Indian and Pakistani foreign secretaries decide on a possible meeting later this month to discuss new Confidence Building Measures (CBMs), 26/11 mastermind and Jammat Ud Dawa (JUD) Chief Hafiz Saeed has invited India's Home Minister P Chidambaram for a 'composite dialogue.'
Speaking at the biggest ever anti-India jehadi rally in Pakistan on the occasion of annual 'Kashmir Solidarity Day,' Saeed said that P Chidambaram should talk to him rather than going to Islamabad.
"I invite Chidambaram to come and meet me first rather than going to Islamabad come here to Lahore. Our destination is nothing less than freedom, freedom has to be given and if India doesn't give Kashmiris the right to freedom then we will adopt the method which was adopted by Afghans to drive away America and its forces," he said.
Other than India, United States too was a target of Saeed's rant.
"The biggest pagan, America which had been supporting Jews and is now supporting India, has been defeated by Mujahideen in Afghanistan. India must understand that if America couldn't stay for long in Afghanistan, then there is no chance that India will remain in Kashmir forever," said Saeed.
Although Saeed did not own the responsibility for the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, he tried to equate the attacks to the loss suffered by Pakistan during the 1971 war.
"If India can't forget Mumbai attacks, we can't forget East Pakistan (Bangladesh). India's thousand Mumbai like attacks will not be able to equal the loss we faced in East Pakistan."
Saeed stressed that the only solution to problems between India and Pakistan was the "liberation of Jammu & Kashmir, failing which radical groups would resort to the option of jehad."
well here comes the next(third) power center of pakistan......
first :army
second: civilian govt
third:terrorists,(and this time officially-they dont even care about the govt).
fourth:?????????????????
26/11 plotter invites Chidambaram for 'composite dialogue'
MASTERMIND: Hafiz Mohammad Saeed is the key conspirator in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks.
Lahore: Even as Indian and Pakistani foreign secretaries decide on a possible meeting later this month to discuss new Confidence Building Measures (CBMs), 26/11 mastermind and Jammat Ud Dawa (JUD) Chief Hafiz Saeed has invited India's Home Minister P Chidambaram for a 'composite dialogue.'
Speaking at the biggest ever anti-India jehadi rally in Pakistan on the occasion of annual 'Kashmir Solidarity Day,' Saeed said that P Chidambaram should talk to him rather than going to Islamabad.
"I invite Chidambaram to come and meet me first rather than going to Islamabad come here to Lahore. Our destination is nothing less than freedom, freedom has to be given and if India doesn't give Kashmiris the right to freedom then we will adopt the method which was adopted by Afghans to drive away America and its forces," he said.
Other than India, United States too was a target of Saeed's rant.
"The biggest pagan, America which had been supporting Jews and is now supporting India, has been defeated by Mujahideen in Afghanistan. India must understand that if America couldn't stay for long in Afghanistan, then there is no chance that India will remain in Kashmir forever," said Saeed.
Although Saeed did not own the responsibility for the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, he tried to equate the attacks to the loss suffered by Pakistan during the 1971 war.
"If India can't forget Mumbai attacks, we can't forget East Pakistan (Bangladesh). India's thousand Mumbai like attacks will not be able to equal the loss we faced in East Pakistan."
Saeed stressed that the only solution to problems between India and Pakistan was the "liberation of Jammu & Kashmir, failing which radical groups would resort to the option of jehad."
paritosh
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and we are trying to resume talks when the accused of 26/11 are openly declaring war on India...they should have been behind bars locked-up...there can be no peace till then...and they these cowards talk of massacring Indian soldiers...they'd $h!t in their pants if we were to go on the offensive..!
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