Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Gazzi]

Regardless of whatever the CBI puts forward it makes no difference. The autopsy was done long before the bodies were exhumed and confirmed that they had been raped and murdered. Now, since the Indian Government got involved suddenly, after another autopsy under the supervisionof the CBI they drowned. This is becoming more and more of a fiasco, a bit like the Scarlett Keeling murder.

This will just harden the feelings of Kashmiris even further. One single call from the Hurriyat and the entire Kashmir valley comes to a shutdown. Some Indian love there huh!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged

Reading the first article in this thread, where locals argue the stream is rarely above ankle deep, accidental drowning does seem a rather perplexing reason.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Same question I am asking you ..What is Pakistan army doing in so called 'Azad Kashmir '?? Please enlighten me whats the stand of Pakistan in Kashmir issue??They wanted Azad Kashmir or Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan??

If your want Kashmir to be Azad what dignity your government has left to make such a claim Agno?you government ceded some land of an Independent country to another country..this itself shows what you want to do with that place..

And if you wanted Kashmir to be a part of your country.then its clear that you started war in 1948 and Maharaja has only one thing left to do to protect his country that is joining India..so we have every right to be in that state and Kashmir is India..


Off topic question :If India settles this issue according to what Pakistan hope for..can your government get back the land ceded to China from them??Are they willing to give back the land your government had given to them??

The difference between the Pakistani position and the Indian position is that we want kashmri to be a part of Pakistan only if the Kashmiris decide to choose that option via plebiscite.

As for the land under Chinese control - if the Kashmiris choose Pakistan, Pakistan's arrangement with China is that China keeps that land. If the Kashmiris choose India, the agreement with China on the land calls for negotiations between China and India on the status of that land.

 

[Iggy]

The difference between the Pakistani position and the Indian position is that we want kashmri to be a part of Pakistan only if the Kashmiris decide to choose that option via plebiscite.

As for the land under Chinese control - if the Kashmiris choose Pakistan, Pakistan's arrangement with China is that China keeps that land. If the Kashmiris choose India, the agreement with China on the land calls for negotiations between China and India on the status of that land.

What about Kashmir wanted to be a free country??Agno your country decided the fate of Kashmir before the people of Kashmir decide which choice are they going to make..Is this shows that Pakistan wanted Kashmir to be part of the country irrespective of what Kashmiries think??So all these cry for Azad Kashmir is just a eye wash from the Pakistan govt to impress international audience and Kashmiri people??Is this also confirm who is the real aggressor of 1948?

In the end there is no difference between us..we both dont care what Kashmiries think..we both wanted that land ..but India got the upper hand while trying ..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Where was the obfuscation? Which part of what I had said was not clear enough.

Correct. Glad that you finally got around to actually read my post.

I read your post, there is little difference in suggesting the separatist sentiment is artificially created or does not exist in the context of your arguments. You are merely obfuscating and distorting the issue.

Incitement in the given context would be manipulating opinion in Pakistan's favour by 'pumping in money' (hope you remember the phrase).

Nope. But keeping the supposed 'leaders' on Pakistani payroll is.

Providing funding and support to a popular political movement does not prove that the movement is not popular, or for that matter prove that the movement is popular - your argument is illogical.

Your claim to Kashmir is, just what it is - a mere claim.

Accepted and endorsed by the UNSC and India through its acceptance of the UNSC resolutions.

'Supporting' an issue is one thing. An interested party to a dispute actively trying to skew public opinion in ones favour is another. Keeping the so called leaders on one's payroll falls under later category. It is obvious that a plebiscite now will not be reflecting the true opinion of the people which one would expect to see under fair circumstances.

More nonsensical verbosity and quibbling over semantics. Any 'issue' being supported is championed by leadership and entities wedded to the cause of that issue - issues themselves don't develop bodies, arms and legs and go propagate and promote themselves.

So when an issue is supported the leadership and entities championing that issue and cause are the ones supported - one doesn't drop money f.rom an airplane over Kashmir and just hope 'the issue is supported', nor are you going to see a political poster sprout legs and arms and go chanting and waving in support of 'the issue'.

So give your nonsensical argument a rest.

Now, more than ever, any dialogue with these leaders is out of question. Forget plebiscite for another ten thousand years or more. In all probability, there will now be concerted effort to show that it is in fact Lone, who is on Indian payroll.

Dialog and progress on Kashmir by India, since Nehru backtracked on his commitment to the UNSC resolutions and the plebiscite, unless to perpetuate its occupation, has always been out of the question. So this position you articulate is not exactly something new.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What about Kashmir wanted to be a free country??Agno your country decided the fate of Kashmir before the people of Kashmir decide which choice are they going to make..Is this shows that Pakistan wanted Kashmir to be part of the country irrespective of what Kashmiries think??So all these cry for Azad Kashmir is just a eye wash from the Pakistan govt to impress international audience and Kashmiri people??Is this also confirm who is the real aggressor of 1948?

In the end there is no difference between us..we both dont care what Kashmiries think..we both wanted that land ..but India got the upper hand while trying ..

Pakistan is officially committed to the UNSC resolutions, which do not offer an option for Independence. However we are committed to allowing the Kashmiris to decide which nation they wish to be a part of, and unite divided Kashmir, and Kashmiri families when the Kashmiri people have the freedom to make that decision. And that is the freedom Pakistan refers to - the freedom for Kashmiris to choose which nation they wish to be a part of.

Pakistan has indirectly indicated (most recently through Musharraf's various proposals) of looking at a quasi-Independent Kashmir (not including G-B or Jammu and Laddakh I believe) as a compromise solution.

 

[Iggy]

Pakistan is officially committed to the UNSC resolutions, which do not offer an option for Independence. However we are committed to allowing the Kashmiris to decide which nation they wish to be a part of, and unite divided Kashmir, and Kashmiri families when the Kashmiri people have the freedom to make that decision. And that is the freedom Pakistan refers to - the freedom for Kashmiris to choose which nation they wish to be a part of.

Pakistan has indirectly indicated (most recently through Musharraf's various proposals) of looking at a quasi-Independent Kashmir (not including G-B or Jammu and Laddakh I believe) as a compromise solution.

So is this means your government is making a complete fool out them by giving them false hope of Azad Kashmir??and also Agno some of your countrymen saying Kashmir is an Independent country and some like you saying Kashmir can choose between our two countries..Its totally confusing.. are you guys changing the stand to which ever is most suitable to you??

And also some more to add

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azad_Kashmir

http://www.ajk.gov.pk/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=38&id=214&Itemid=140

it show Azad Kashmir working as an Independent country..is this also a eye wash to fool Kashmiries?so that separatist movement in India should last long??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So is this means your government is making a complete fool out them by giving them false hope of Azad Kashmir??and also Agno some of your countrymen saying Kashmir is an Independent country and some like you saying Kashmir can choose between our two countries..Its totally confusing.. are you guys changing the stand to which ever is most suitable to you??

And also some more to add

Azad Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Azad Jammu and Kashmir - General Information

it show Azad Kashmir working as an Independent country..is this also a eye wash to fool Kashmiries?so that separatist movement in India should last long??

Azad Kashmir is autonomous territory till a resolution of the dispute. If the J&K dispute is resolved in favor of Pakistan in accordance with the UNSC resolutions, then J&K would be a province in Pakistan, and we would negotiate the degree of autonomy/central control with the Kashmiri population.

If Kashmir is resolved in any other fashion, Azad Kashmir stands dissolved and the conditions of whatever solution has been arrived at apply.

I fail to see how this is in any way 'fooling the Kashmiris or the world' - the fact is that Pakistan stands for implementing the UNSC resolutions giving them the right to self-determination and uniting divided Kashmir whereas India stands against all of that.

 

[grey boy 2]

December 15, 2009 Tuesday

African Union urges India to settle Kashmir dispute at the earliest

Pakistan -- ISLAMABAD, The Ambassadors of African Union have urged India to resolve the Kashmir dispute at the earliest as it is vital to peace and stability of the region in particular and the world in general. The Ambassadors of African Union residing in Islamabad, talking to the journalists,said that 800,000 Indian troops deployed in Occupied Kashmir were torturing the innocent people of Jammu and Kashmir to deprive them of their birthright to self-determination.

They also stressed for taking African countries into confidence regarding the resolution of the Kashmir dispute. Meanwhile, the former Prime Minister of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and President of Peoples Muslim League, Barrister Sultan Mehmood Chaudhry briefed the ambassadors about the Kashmir dispute at the residence of ambassador of South Africa in Islamabad.

The meeting was presided over by the President of the Ambassadors of African Union and Ambassador of Kenya to Pakistan, Mrs. Mishi Masika Mwatsah, while the Ambassador of Egypt, Magdy Amer, Ambassador of Sudan, Omer Musa, Ambassador of Tunis, Mourad Bourehla, Ambassador of Libya, Ibrahim Mukhtar, Deputy Ambassador of Nigeria, Ridwan Adebayo, Consular of Algeria, Khiari Abderrahim, Ambassador of Morocco and Ambassador of Mauritius participated in the meeting and assured their full support in resolving the dispute.

Published by HT Syndication with permission from Right Vision News. For more information on news feed please contact Sarabjit Jagirdar at htsyndication@hindustantimes.com

LexisNexis News - Latest News from over 4,000 sources, including newspapers, tv transcripts, wire services, magazines, journals.

 

[EjazR]

95% militants in Kashmir are from outside: Ghulam Nabi Azad
Dec 15 (PTI) Union Health Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad today said 95 per cent of the militants operating in Jammu and Kashmir are not from the state.

"Twenty years ago the ratio was 95 per cent from the state and five per cent from outside. Now it is just the reverse because the people have understood that justice can be done only through dialogue," Azad told reporters here.

About five-six years ago, the people of Jammu and Kashmir realised that the state's economy had come to tatters following violence, he said.

"But had they understood this 20 years ago, there wouldn't have been any bloodshed," he said.

Reaching out to the ultra-left wing extremism in Jharkhand, he called upon the naxalites to shun the path of violence.

"Drop your guns. Come forward for talks and you will get justice and solutions to all problems. Violence is not good for anybody," he said

 

[EjazR]

Rising Kashmir, Daily Newspaper, Srinagar Jammu and Kashmir - CBI submits 2 boxfuls of records to CJM

Ishfaq Tantry
Srinagar, Dec 15: A day after submitting its report on Shopian investigations before High Court, CBI Tuesday produced all the records pertaining to the case before Chief Judicial Magistrate, Srinagar. The court, however, adjourned the case without fixing next date of hearing.

On December 10, CBI had produced challan against 13 accused persons before CJM Srinagar, Mohammad Ibrahim. Accordingly, the CJM had listed the case for today (December 15) and directed CBI to produce the relevant records of the case in the court.
Complying with the Court orders, a CBI team comprising Chief Investigating officer Sanjay and CBI Counsel Advocate Anil Bhan produced all the records and evidence material of the case to the CJM court in “two sealed steel trunks”.
The material produced by the CBI includes case diaries, video evidence, clothes of deceased women and other incriminating material. Besides, the charge sheet, CBI also produced video evidence, photographs and other evidence material in the court.
Sources said CJM took the record and other evidence material under his possession. They said it will take the court long time to study and go through the material.
They said CJM later adjourned the case without fixing next date of hearing.
Talking to Rising Kashmir in Sadder Court Complex, CBI counsel Advocate Anil Bhan confirmed that the investigative agency submitted the records to CJM Srinagar in two sealed boxes.
In the 66 page charge sheet produced by CBI, the investigating agency has named 13 persons as accused. They include Dr. Nighat Shaheen, Dr. Ghulam Qadir Sofi, Dr. Mohammad Maqbool Mir, Dr. Ghulam Mohammad Paul,Dr. Bilal Ahmad Dalal, Dr. Nazia Hassan, Dr. Advocate Abdul Majid Mir, ( Shopian Bar President), Advocate Mushtaq Ahmad Gattoo ( Public prosecutor), Mohammad Yousuf Bhat, Advocate Mohammad Altaf, Advocate Sheikh Mubarak, Ali Mohammad Sheikh (civilian) and Zahoor Ahmad Ahangar ( brother of Shakeel Ahangar, husband of one of the victim Neelofar).
The 13 persons have been charged under section 120-B RPC, 167, 193, 194, 195 A RPC and substantive offences under section 167, 193, 194 and 195 A RPC.
The CBI presented its final report about the Shopian investigations before High Court on Monday. In the report, CBI had termed the Shopian case as a “drowning incident” and ruled out rape and murder of two women – Asiya and Neelofar.
The agency has based its conclusion on the opinion of the AIIMS Medical Board, which carried out the exhumation of the bodies of the victims on September 28.
The CBI report has charged the doctors and lawyers for ‘fabricating the evidence’.

 

[Iggy]

Azad Kashmir is autonomous territory till a resolution of the dispute. If the J&K dispute is resolved in favor of Pakistan in accordance with the UNSC resolutions, then J&K would be a province in Pakistan, and we would negotiate the degree of autonomy/central control with the Kashmiri population.

If Kashmir is resolved in any other fashion, Azad Kashmir stands dissolved and the conditions of whatever solution has been arrived at apply.

I fail to see how this is in any way 'fooling the Kashmiris or the world' - the fact is that Pakistan stands for implementing the UNSC resolutions giving them the right to self-determination and uniting divided Kashmir whereas India stands against all of that.

Simple question Agno..how many of those so called freedom fighters who come from across the border knows about it?that Kashmir has only 2 option left either be with India or be with Pakistan?and also Independent Kashmir is only a myth ..

Independent Kashmir the only option: Pakistan: Rediff.com India News

look at the statement made by your Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit.. and also look at the statement made by Jammu and Kashmir Democratic Freedom Party chief Shabbir Ahmed

'I dream of an independent Kashmir'

They all are talking about Independent Kashmir ...and also surprise to see every one in Pakistani politics says only about Kashmir's freedom than Kashmir has to choose between India and Pakistan..

 

[EjazR]

Well the court has not given its final verdict yet. As the the Judge said, these are just CBI findings, it has to be analysed and accepted/rejected based on that. Unfortuantely there will be a section who will never be convinved and it gives people like Geelani and Co. to flame passions.

Just yesterday there was a report of another young girl being shot dead by militants(Rising Kashmir,- Woman shot dead), the fourth women killed this year and there are eye witnesses for this. Last year there was a case of Asrar Mustaque being murdered by security forces and a week long bandh. Later it was found out that it was his own friend who killed him out of jealously for a girl.

Even this strike call is hardly widspread across the valley. Its always in the border districts of shopian and baramulla and parts of Srinagar. In Hazrat bal for example life is routine. Even if some people want to protest, thats fine as long as they don't indulge in violence.

I don't understand why the doctors who were part of the Majlis group and present when AIIMS doctors were doing the autopsy don't say anything. The autopsy was not done by the CBI. It was done by an independant body and Majlis doctors were present. These doctors are keeping quiet when they should clearly say wether facts like the younger victim was a virgin or not are pretty straightforward.

 

[FreekiN]

Same thing with Afghanistan in the 70's 80's time. One Muslim fights, every Muslim fights.

 

[rajeev]

Same thing with Afghanistan in the 70's 80's time. One Muslim fights, every Muslim fights.

So, you are saying that there is no need for reason. Just because one jumps into well, everyone else does! Does that make any sense?