Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[hembo]

New map exposes Pakistani designs on 'Kashmir'
Mon, Nov 30 03:55 PM

London, Nov.30: While talking to some Kashmiris in London, Sardar Shaukat Kashmiri told us a story that on the day of Hashim Qureshi's wedding in Rawalpindi a famous writer and leader Dada Amir Haider was also present (he was the first Asian who had honour of meeting Lenin and was close associate of Nehru, Gandhi and Ghafar Khan).

During discussion on politics of Pakistan and Kashmir Dada Amir Haider said: If Pakistan remains of only one province and even if that is on fire there will be still some 'idiot Kashmiris' who will say we want to be part of this land which is on fire.

His message was that nationalist Kashmiris should ignore these 'idiots' who do not care for welfare of their own people and unity of their country; and are more concerned about welfare and future of Pakistan. This policy is illogical and illustrates flattering nature of the people concerned. Who would in his right mind appreciate actions of this man who ignores responsibilities to his own parents, and expresses love and care for his neighbour?

That is not because they love Pakistan but because they cannot think for themselves and they are infatuated with love of Islam. They think we (Kashmiris) must express love for Pakistan because Pakistan was set up in name of Islam, no matter what is happening in that Pakistan and what is geography of that land of pure. Furthermore this flattering but illogical attitude makes them darling of Islamabad which showers them with rewards.

It is these sentiments which Pakistan has successfully exploited since 1947. On Jammu and Kashmir both India and Pakistan had same policy and that was to make the State part of their country. Both countries had different reasons for doing this; and both adopted different strategies.

Jammu and Kashmir had a Muslim majority and India claimed that inclusion of the State with India would strengthen their secular ideals; Pakistan on the other hand claimed that inclusion of Jammu and Kashmir with Pakistan would strengthen Islamic ideals. Furthermore they wrongly thought that the State should have been 'awarded' to Pakistan even though the Two Nations Theory - a formula devised to divide the British India did not apply to Jammu and Kashmir and other Princely States.

Pakistani officials relied on their use of arms and exploitation of Islamic sentiments; and despite the Standstill Agreement they managed a tribal invasion and stabbed the Maharaja government in the back and inadvertently paved way for accession to India, which was accepted provisionally. This naked aggression resulted in killing and suffering of innocent Kashmiri people and subsequently led to the division of the State.

Tragedy is that even that aggression was presented to us Kashmiris as a Jihad which was carried out to help the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

Unfortunately many Kashmiris still regard that as true; and Pakistani officials have still not abandoned their policy of 'liberating' Jammu and Kashmir through jihad. What happened in Jammu and Kashmir in name of 'Jihad' is a tragic story. Once again Pakistani policy makers relied on use of arms and used a 'proxy war' and 'terrorism' to advance their interests in the region.

It is, however, true that Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism; but is it not also true that all these groups who are out of control and fighting Pakistan were created, trained and funded by Pakistani agencies? Should we feel pity that Frankenstein's monster disobeyed his creator? There is an ideological conflict between Pakistani agencies and these jihadi groups.

Whereas terrorist groups do not understand complexities of diplomacy and are groomed from childhood with one agenda - to wage jihad; Pakistani state apparatus are accountable for their actions to those who fund them. They have to demonstrate that they have changed their policy of training and funding of terrorists.

This is partially true. Those who are challenging the writ of government and are not prepared to understand compulsions of the government of Pakistan will face wrath of Pakistan, but 'good boys' who are still prepared to continue jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan are still adored and supported.

What is happening in Pakistan is a direct result of policies of Pakistani agencies. Their wrong policies of the past are here to haunt them and make them appear victims.

Despite all these problems, their obsession to get Kashmir or at least make it unstable is not affected by internal problems. They have come out with true colours with their policy on Gilgit Baltistan. They have annexed this territory in name of new package and 'empowering people'. By Dr Shabir Choudhry (ANI)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No annexation of G-B has taken place - unlike India, the Pakistani constitution does not treat it as Pakistani territory.

That alone should be enough to debunk this rant.

 

[Materialistic]

If Pakistan remains of only one province and even if that is on fire there will be still some 'idiot Kashmiris' who will say we want to be part of this land which is on fire.

Pakistan on fire !!!!Pakistan has insurgents in its smallest state and in the smallest area of that smallest state and they roughly figure upto 0.02% of the population and their purpose it to take over Pakistan. On the other hand India, which is so called not on fire has 20 states out of 29 controlled by moaist rebels, which has higher number of military men executed by insurgents 2800 than Pakistan's 2000 in open war. India (not on fire) where people of these 20 states and also Kashmir, Punjab & Hydrabad demand freedom. And this all has happened because of lack of rights to poor people and minorities. So, in that respect i think Pakistan burning on fire is still cool and stable than the country not so on fire.

Following the comment above, Uttar or andar pradesh (The state disputed between China & India) should turn back towards China rather than going for India which has actually burned more than 2/3 to the same fire.

 

[graphican]

During discussion on politics of Pakistan and Kashmir Dada Amir Haider said: If Pakistan remains of only one province and even if that is on fire there will be still some 'idiot Kashmiris' who will say we want to be part of this land which is on fire.

That is not because they love Pakistan but because they cannot think for themselves and they are infatuated with love of Islam. They think we (Kashmiris) must express love for Pakistan because Pakistan was set up in name of Islam, no matter what is happening in that Pakistan and what is geography of that land of pure.

Muslims are one Ummah no matter who ever they are, wherever they are, even Muslims in India are connected and spiritually part of Pakistan and rest of Muslim World. A non-muslim cannot understand what does it mean to be a Muslim and what does it takes to remain a Muslim. This is not religion of Cowardice and Shameless people.. it takes Heart of a Lion filled with Love of God and His Prophet (PBUH) to understand what Ummah means. No wonder after offering nearly 1,00,000 people on the way of Jihaad, the Kashmire Blood is not cold as you are desperate to see it.

True, Kashmires are our brothers, not because they are children of our fore-fathers, but because they are Muslim like us. And regarding Jihaad, we are fore-told that no matter what, Jihaad will continue till the day of Judgment. So whether you like it or not, whether Pakistan supports Kashmires or other Muslims in India or not, you are not going to see Muslims compromise or quit their struggle against illegal occupation.

 

[gubbi]

Muslims are one Ummah no matter who ever they are, wherever they are, even Muslims in India are connected and spiritually part of Pakistan and rest of Muslim World.

Tell that to the Arabs, the Turks and the Persians and see how they respond. For that matter tell that even to the Indians who follow Islamic faith! Pakistan is not the torch bearer of Islam and will never be, for very obvious reasons.

A non-muslim cannot understand what does it mean to be a Muslim and what does it takes to remain a Muslim. This is not religion of Cowardice and Shameless people.. it takes Heart of a Lion filled with Love of God and His Prophet (PBUH) to understand what Ummah means.

Lamest comment ever! "Cowardice and Shameless people" are the ones forcing the "pure" people like TTP, Taliban, LeT, HM, and AQ to eat dust! We have seen their "hearts of a Lion" when they blow up innocent people, women and children.

I think a person who claims to follow Islam without understanding the religion properly cannot understand what it means to be a Muslim and is prone to making such ridiculous and outrageous comments, indulges in questionable activities, not to mention invite the wrath of LEO's!

whether you like it or not, whether Pakistan supports Kashmires or other Muslims in India or not, you are not going to see Muslims compromise or quit their struggle against illegal occupation.

What about TTP and AQ's call for Jihad? They claim to follow a "more purer", if you may, version of Islam, which they want to implement in the lands under their control. What does that make the rest of Islam's followers?

Lame post as usual!

Following the comment above, Uttar or andar pradesh (The state disputed between China & India) should turn back towards China rather than going for India which has actually burned more than 2/3 to the same fire.

A little "google" use can help one gain a little more knowledge. Please do educate yourself before commenting on something you seem to know nothing about! Geography for dummies is available on the bookshelves in a store near you!

 

[gubbi]

No annexation of G-B has taken place - unlike India, the Pakistani constitution does not treat it as Pakistani territory.

Official results of GB polls announced

Is that so? So what exactly is Pakistan's Election commission doing conducting elections (Nov09) in the G-B areas where PPP (a mainstream Pakistani political party) won 11 seats while PMN-L (another mainstream Pakistani political party) won 2 seats? Why were these parties and others like MQM allowed to partake in elections, conducted by Pakistani election commission, in an area which, according to your post, is not Pakistan's sovereign territory?

Why isnt G-B part of "Azad Kashmir" or a more politically correct term "P-0-K?

What were you saying again? You, debunked a rant?

 

[FreekiN]

Tell that to the Arabs, the Turks and the Persians and see how they respond. For that matter tell that even to the Indians who follow Islamic faith! Pakistan is not the torch bearer of Islam and will never be, for very obvious reasons.

Yeah and they'd agree with the Ummah. And Pakistan never said it was the torch-bearer. Infact, NO Muslim country can be a torch bearer AT ALL.

 

[EjazR]

Muslims are one Ummah no matter who ever they are, wherever they are, even Muslims in India are connected and spiritually part of Pakistan and rest of Muslim World. A non-muslim cannot understand what does it mean to be a Muslim and what does it takes to remain a Muslim. This is not religion of Cowardice and Shameless people.. it takes Heart of a Lion filled with Love of God and His Prophet (PBUH) to understand what Ummah means. No wonder after offering nearly 1,00,000 people on the way of Jihaad, the Kashmire Blood is not cold as you are desperate to see it.

True, Kashmires are our brothers, not because they are children of our fore-fathers, but because they are Muslim like us. And regarding Jihaad, we are fore-told that no matter what, Jihaad will continue till the day of Judgment. So whether you like it or not, whether Pakistan supports Kashmires or other Muslims in India or not, you are not going to see Muslims compromise or quit their struggle against illegal occupation.

If you have so much care for your muslim brothers, why not leave them in peace? They don't want your "Jihad" so why IMPOSE it on them.

Your basically syaing that wether Kashmiris want to join Pakistan or not, we will continue to fight "Jihad" to make them join Pakistan. Acchi zarbardasti hai

My friend this is not Jihad its Fasad espicially since there is full freedom of religion. Why not fight for the Uighur muslim in China who actually DO NOT have that freedom.

 

[EjazR]

By the way check out this intersting map from the Pakistani FO website. A few points to notice:

* PaK or AJK as it is known in Pakistan is part of the disputed territory, so Pakistan FO correctly regards this as disputed territory and not Pakistani territory along with J&K

* Gilgit agency is shown as part of Pakistan and not part of J&K while Baltistan is
* Territories occupied by China like aksai chin and the shaksam valley are not shown at all. So probably the Pakistani FO considers these areas as not disputed.

Here is the link:
http://www.mofa.gov.pk/Maps/PAK_Administrative.jpg

 

[grey boy 2]

If you have so much care for your muslim brothers, why not leave them in peace? They don't want your "Jihad" so why IMPOSE it on them.

Your basically syaing that wether Kashmiris want to join Pakistan or not, we will continue to fight "Jihad" to make them join Pakistan. Acchi zarbardasti hai

My friend this is not Jihad its Fasad espicially since there is full freedom of religion. Why not fight for the Uighur muslim in China who actually DO NOT have that freedom.

Why every single time when you Indians went out of bullets during a

a debate you started to drag China into it ?

Let me tell you the Uighur muslim in China's living stardard are way

way better than your so-called "Shinning India"

For God sake please cut out your crap and take a good look of

yourself in the damn mirror !!

 

[EjazR]

@grey boy
I don't want to drag China into it too, but I don't expect you to understand the theological aspects of where "Jihad" rhetoric is wrongly used for violence. Freedom of religion is more important than living standards from the Islamic point of view although that is important as well. A good muslim will not give up his faith if he is told that he will get so much and so much money.

While in India certainly the living standards may not be comparable, there is freedom of religion and this is where the theological argument falls flat. It doesn't matter wether your rich or poor in India, but most importantly you have the freedom to practice and preach your religion.

 

[Trisonics]

Why every single time when you Indians went out of bullets during a

a debate you started to drag China into it ?

Let me tell you the Uighur muslim in China's living stardard are way

way better than your so-called "Shinning India"

For God sake please cut out your crap and take a good look of

yourself in the damn mirror !!

if you cannot comprehend what is being argued in a thread, stay away! Your usual rant about living conditions cannot take away the fact that Chinese have called Uighur as "Terrorists" and are suppressing Islam. There have been detentions and executions.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China 'crushing Muslim Uighurs'

oh yeah and be a troll and start posting links appended by your favorite smileys

 

[graphican]

Tell that to the Arabs, the Turks and the Persians and see how they respond. For that matter tell that even to the Indians who follow Islamic faith! Pakistan is not the torch bearer of Islam and will never be, for very obvious reasons.

Jihad is not against India, it is against every force that is against teachings of Islam, let it be theft, discrimination, imposed philosophy or even occupied forces. Arabs, Turks and Persians know that and they do Jihad to the level they could.. and yes Pakistan is not the torch-barer, its not even Saudia Arabia and not even Dhakan in India. No country in the world has monopoly over Islam. It starts with the Book of God and Sunnah of Prophet and Ends there.

Lamest comment ever! "Cowardice and Shameless people" are the ones forcing the "pure" people like TTP, Taliban, LeT, HM, and AQ to eat dust! We have seen their "hearts of a Lion" when they blow up innocent people, women and children.

I think a person who claims to follow Islam without understanding the religion properly cannot understand what it means to be a Muslim and is prone to making such ridiculous and outrageous comments, indulges in questionable activities, not to mention invite the wrath of LEO's!

Yes this is not religion of Cowardice and Shameless People.. and this holds true even for Muslims in India. For Muslims, its the Will-of-God which is the most important element and they will sacrifice every thing, just everything that comes on their way to achieve that. If one is not ready to do that, he/she will not embrace it the first place.. So Cowardice and Shameless people are not fit in this religion.

Regarding TTP, they are not Face of Islam. People who are supported by India and Israel cannot be Muslims for one simple reason that Holy Prophet PBUH said "Yahood and Hanood will never be your friend" and this is enough for Muslims. So people who are following your war-plans are not merely what you could present as sample Muslims.

What about TTP and AQ's call for Jihad? They claim to follow a "more purer", if you may, version of Islam, which they want to implement in the lands under their control. What does that make the rest of Islam's followers?

Here you are talking my words. Just imagine how people from Arab and Tajikistan, Oman, Yaman and God knows from where else are approaching and standing up in the name of Jihad although its a False Flag. A Muslim will never force somebody to be relegious and the people who are doing so are simply not Muslims. TTP is not here to implement Sharia and when it was initially imagined that they are only looking to implement Sharia, Government of Pakistan had accept that but TTP was only using Sharia (the Islamic law) as an instrument of deception and even when that was implemented, they kept violating and rather started capturing area by killing locals and Government Representatives. There are no doubts that they were NOT looking for Sharia but they were only using it to gain popularity and they were successful with that. Don't worry whole story would open soon and you will see how many Indian asserts we filter out from them. The time is near.

 

[PAFAce]

Another attempt to malign Pakistan, and to divert attention from the real Kashmir issue; that of India occupying Kashmiri territory without the consent of its people, and fortifying that occupation through violence, torture and inequality.

Okay, Pakistan is the devil, we are the worst people on the planet. We have occupied every single piece of territory we have illegally. You are better than we are, why don't you show your character and let the land and its people live freely? Why do you try so hard to divert attention away from the real issues?

It all makes as much sense as forgetting about the Palestinian issue and blaming Iran for all the problems in the Middle East.

Edit
Man, seriously, as much as I hate to argue with some Indians here, I find that it is almost impossible to argue sensibly in the presence of some Pakistanis. "Muslim Ummah" this and "Islamic power" that, what you are doing is giving the Indian trolls an opportunity to avoid the main issue! Please, like the man above said, if you don't know what is being discussed, stay the F* out!

 

[Trisonics]

Muslims are one Ummah no matter who ever they are, wherever they are, even Muslims in India are connected and spiritually part of Pakistan and rest of Muslim World. A non-muslim cannot understand what does it mean to be a Muslim and what does it takes to remain a Muslim.

Your argument was flawed when you said "Muslims in India are connected and spiritually part of Pakistan", that just seems like a popular belief for Pakistanis. Your second part of the argument (reply to Gubbi) made more sense. However that is only in writing or belief but the real world as we all know it is very different right? We all can give many examples of Muslims vs Muslims, so, I would describe it best as a sentiment.