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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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and did she bother to speak out against those who drove them out in the first place or was she too scared to do so . More scared than of the "unjust and repressive" GOI ???? Hypocrisy personified

don't worry....the so-called ''displaced'' pandits are already calling for her detention, and action taken against her & Mr. Geelani :D


Act against Roy, Geelani, demands Kashmiri Pandit group


interesting how she does assert in her speeches supporting the call for azadi were what 'millions' in Kashmir say every day and were 'fundamentally a call for justice'

indian media of course forgets to mention this important, obvious and crystal clear ground-reality
 
Shove your middle ground useless to Kashmirs.

Kashmiris hate Indian high-handedness (meaning: arrogance, superiority complex) and little faith in Pakistan (meaning don't want to be another AK)

Mr.American,Like it or not the Kashmir issue will be solved(if it is) only in such a way as to take of the interests of India and Pakistan first and foremost and if time permits the Kashmiris.That is the cold,hard reality that none of the world powers ,including US can change.

So only if the middle ground is acceptable to Indians and Pakistanis,this will be solved.Frankly no one,neither Indians (including Jammuites,Ladakhis ) and Pakistanis care a fig about the Valley Muslims.

So India and Pakistan - give the gift of freedom to Kashmirs. They will be grateful for life time. BTW, this is THE middle ground approach

Don't waste your time on solutions that suits you but worthless to the people live in Kashmir.

You think independent Kashmir will become Shangri-La ?? Are you that naive??

It will become another Afghanistan with competing interests of India,Pakistan and China vying for influence and result we all know.
So Kashmir is better off with India and Pakistan.

So only solutions that are acceptable to India (Indian Parliament) and Pakistan (Pakistani Army) can/will be discussed.

If you think otherwise,then I guess you are not living in America...but in a place where the sun doesnt shine.
 
don't worry....the so-called ''displaced'' pandits are already calling for her detention, and action taken against her & Mr. Geelani :D


Act against Roy, Geelani, demands Kashmiri Pandit group


interesting how she does assert in her speeches supporting the call for azadi were what 'millions' in Kashmir say every day and were 'fundamentally a call for justice'

indian media of course forgets to mention this important, obvious and crystal clear ground-reality

the Indian media is so exhaustive and critical that they even interviewed virulently anti India female leaders of the Hurriyat hardline faction and broadcast it to every nook and corner . Sitting here in bangalore I could see the burqa clad lady make provocative statements against India openly on camera beside a calm Barkha Dutt, honestly never felt the urge to break the T.V screen more at the sheer audacity of these people, the way it seems at least in such cases Chinese and Pakistani media restraint and limitations do have a lot of merit......Indian media simply goes overboard with different " views and so called freedom of speech"

about Arundhuti , a lady who can drag in India's poverty and social inequality to justify the Mumbai butchery( seriously we all thought that was her worst ...but apparently not), deserves no respect and no rights as a citizen either.

The U.S the world's oldest democracy decided this point about secessionist tendencies in a democracy long ago in their civil war , such ideas ,notions and movements even in the face of rights , wasn't tolerated .....and going by this example .....a country's national integrity is ranked over any right to free expression in a democracy.
Every right is tempered by a limitation.....in this case the right to free expression by the law against sedition.....
 

was just reading a piece about Nawabzada Bugti jnr the other day.......if you were be kind enough to go over the way Bugti was hunted down or the number of reports in the Pakistan newspapers about economic situation in AK , or even the one-sided and nationalistic tone in which the Lal masjid siege was presented or the WOT is currently being carried out by PA troops .....you might see what I mean .....due regards....:wave:
 
May be her statment will sound music to some people on this forum or in pakistan. people like arundhati roy come on center stage and take advantage of democratic country and freedom of speech and then enjoy little but short and cheap popularity which may help in incresing the sale of some of her non-sense books.....or may be her statment makes some ppl sleeps bettr for a week or so..

But what will be the end result?:what:

kashmir is and kashmir will remain and integral part of india:GOI :coffee:
 
was just reading a piece about Nawabzada Bugti jnr the other day.......if you were be kind enough to go over the way Bugti was hunted down or the number of reports in the Pakistan newspapers about economic situation in AK , or even the one-sided and nationalistic tone in which the Lal masjid siege was presented or the WOT is currently being carried out by PA troops .....you might see what I mean .....due regards....:wave:

find me a media that can assist a ''long march'' and even help topple a regime. find me a media where terrorists can easily contact them and get their distorted views heard, live.


i'm sorry, i cannot accept your argument

Lal Masjid, Bugti, etc. were all covered quite objectively and openly I think. Hell, I had no idea about Lal Masjid and what was brewing until I turned on the news and heard about some Korean lady being thrashed by burqa-clad women because she supposedly ran a prostitution ring
 
KASHMIR POST 1947
International facilitation is required to help the people of Jammu and Kashmir to attain their inalienable rights


Wednesday, 27 Oct 2010

Shamim Shawl

Kashmir was sold to Gulab Singh by the British Empire authoring a great tragedy in human civilization. Although Amritsar Treaty gave the state an independent position but started the worst historical phase of slavery. Since 1846 to 1947 under Dogra Raj People of Jammu and Kashmir were living a tyrannical life.

There was a hope at the time of partition along with all princely states that Kashmiris will be given a chance to choose their future But Maharaja’s hesitation to Join Pakistan or declare the state independent gave chance to India. The same as was done in Junagadh and Hyderabad. India's first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru made a pledge to resolve the Kashmir dispute in accordance with the "wishes of the people of Kashmir". But he betrayed. The oldest unresolved international conflict in the world is still a core political dispute between India and Pakistan. International Community accepts it but is silent.

In order to understand the present India-Pakistan conflict we have to return to 1947 when the British left the subcontinent. Although Jawaharlal Nehru made a promise to the people of Jammu and Kashmir on November 2, 1947: “And let me make it clear that it has been our policy all along that where there is a dispute about the accession of a state to either Dominion, the accession must be made by the people of that state.” It is also a historical fact that state of Jammu Kashmir is not a part of India and a long battle imposed on the people of state is a proof that India is using might to continue its presence and delay a free and fair plebiscite. Indian claim on Kashmir is politically, legally and morally unjustified. Establishment of an UN authority in the state from January 24 1949 to supervise the ceasefire between India and Pakistan is another legal and historical proof of Kashmir disputes nature. The observers, under the command of the Military Adviser appointed by the UN Secretary General, formed the nucleus of the United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP). Taking the issue to the UN, India was confident of winning a plebiscite but it never trusted the people of the state. There were three wars between India and Pakistan but all failed to decide the future of Kashmir. The status quo was maintained until 1989 when pro-independence movement started with renewed vigour in the Indian administrated Kashmir. India unleashed a reign of terror against Kashmiris. More than on hundred thousand people have been killed in the last twenty years.

Mountbatten's letter to the Maharaja dated October 27, 1947, also says that issue" should be settled by a reference to the people".

"The question of accession should be decided in accordance with the wishes of people of the State." India has authored a number of dark pages in Kashmir. Jammu genocide in 1947 is still fresh in our minds. It has widely been reported in International press. In 1947, Horace Alexander wrote in the Spectator (January 16, 1948) that the killings had “the tacit consent of State authority” and put the figure at 200,000.” On August 10, 1948, The Times (London) published a report by “A Special Correspondent”, an Indian Civil Service official who had served in the State. He wrote: “2, 37,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated – unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border – by all the forces of the Dogra State, headed by the Maharaja in person and aided by Hindus and Sikhs. This happened in October 1947, five days before the first Pathan invasion and nine days before the Maharaja’s accession to India. ” Between 1941 and 1961, the Muslim population of Jammu fell from 61 percent to 38 percent.

British daily The London Times wrote on October 10, 1947 in a report from its special correspondent in India that the Maharaja, under his own supervision, got assassinated 237,000 Muslims, using military forces in Jammu area. The editor of "Statesman" Ian Stephen, in his book "Horned Moon" wrote that till the end of autumn 1947, more than 200,000 Muslims were assassinated. It is also a fact that State of Jammu and Kashmir is really in danger and a large number of Muslims butchered in the province of Jammu, and a small number of province were allowed to come out of the State and taking refuge in Pakistan. Pakistan is still giving refuge to the people of the State of Jammu and Kashmir.

The Indian declared the state of Jammu and Kashmir ‘disturb’ and imposed an act (AFSPA) which gives freehand to kill, shoot and assassinate people. State of Jammu and Kashmir is really in danger. Robin Raphael Assistant Secretary of State declared Jammu & Kashmir as a “disputed territory” and started calling for the resolution of the dispute between India and Pakistan in accordance with the wishes of the Kashmiri people. We knew that all countries who gained their freedom at the expense of their great sacrifices. They are emerging as independent nations, and are enjoying full share in the global world. This emergence of independent states in world like East Timor and Bosnia is a source of great inspiration to those countries which are struggling for freedom. It is hoped that Barrack Obama’s visit to India will be a new hope and will support, morally and politically, the struggle of Kashmiri people. It is our responsibility to approach and inform all the stakeholders of the world.

To conclude the world conscience must take notice of the existing painful situation in Kashmir where people have been imprisoned in their homes. 111 people have been killed. This human tragedy is multiplying the passage of every day. What is needed is international facilitation to help the people of Jammu and Kashmir to redeem their fundamental freedoms and their inalienable right to self-determination. To choose a political future of their choice.

Author is a London based Kashmiri



Kashmir post 1947
 
I'm baffled by these emotional statements. What happened to your heroism after that? If you've continued the heriosm, you should've got full Kashmir by now?

Its a crappy knee jerk reaction done by Pakistan, that moved the topic from a possible discussion table to the battle.

My friend, you do not understand the reality of war. In war the following happens:

-A ceasefire
-Defeat of the defender
-Defeat of the agressor

The first was the most likely to happen and did happen; I believe Nehru promised a plebliscite if Pakistan accepted a ceasfire, the promise ofcourse like all promises related to Kashmiri freedom by India, was nothing short of a lie.
 
Mr.American,Like it or not the Kashmir issue will be solved(if it is) only in such a way as to take of the interests of India and Pakistan first and foremost and if time permits the Kashmiris.That is the cold,hard reality that none of the world powers ,including US can change.

So only if the middle ground is acceptable to Indians and Pakistanis,this will be solved.Frankly no one,neither Indians (including Jammuites,Ladakhis ) and Pakistanis care a fig about the Valley Muslims.



You think independent Kashmir will become Shangri-La ?? Are you that naive??

It will become another Afghanistan with competing interests of India,Pakistan and China vying for influence and result we all know.
So Kashmir is better off with India and Pakistan.

So only solutions that are acceptable to India (Indian Parliament) and Pakistan (Pakistani Army) can/will be discussed.

If you think otherwise,then I guess you are not living in America...but in a place where the sun doesnt shine.

As I said previously, a solution between India/Pakistan without acknowledging the desires of the Kashmiri community would lead to a renewed Armed Struggles and Freedom Movement, one that would perhaps be much larger than the current one and would discredit Pakistan/India on the world stage. Something neither want.

What proof do you have of Kashmir becoming another Afghanistan? The cultural and religious set is different in Kashmir than the one in Afghanistan. Furthermore, as is the case with every developing nation, surrounding countries and superpowers vy for influence. I don't think Pakistan would be financially capable to afford an offensive war with any nation for the next 10 years or so, and the relationship Kashmiris and Pakistanis have would further complicate a possible war. Neither do China or India need the critizism of invading a much smaller nation.
 
For people suggesting Independent Kashmir as a solution, please list what is that you will gain in your daily life which you will not have otherwise.

Please exclude presence of military and their side effects, as there are other ways to solve that problem.

List down what do you mean by freedom.
 
Status like Åland Islands may be worth trying in J&K ....this is probably not going to ever happen given the mind set in India mainly due to the history how things have evolved since 1947 as you guys have been discussing here. The Åland Islands example would be a case to point out and if a similar understanding can be reached then at least in the state of Jammu and Kashmir some resolution is in sight ( I am only referring to J&K and not Pakistan Occupied Kashmir or Azad Kashmir)

The Åland Island Åland Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

very nice place to be in as well....in summer though :)
 
Firstly:

There is neither a Kashmiri hindu nor a Kashmiri muslim, we are all Kashmirs. Please take your divided view elsewhere, Kashmir has suffered enough ethnic crimes.

Secondly:

It is not for you, or for Paksitan or India to decide what is best for us. It is for us, the people of Kashmir to decide our future. Either side accepting a solution to the Kashmir problem that would split Kashmir between Indian and Pakistan would cause deep hatred within the Kashmiri community, and a new insurgency would be on India/Pakistan's hands. Just some facts.


Truth of the matter is Kashmiri Hindus, who indians call pandits, all favor india.

Is there any Kashmiri hindu in the hurriyat committee? Is there any Kashmiri hindu in JKLF?

You should be glad that hindus are a minority in the Kashmiri community.

All Kashmiri Muslims need to favor Pakistan like Kashmiri hindus favor india or this freedom movement will never work.


Going against Pakistan will only hurt your cause. Theres no one in the world who supports the Kashmir cause as much as Pakistanis do. Not Arabs, not Turks, not Iranians, not Americans, not Europeans, and certainly not indians.
 
Friend

India is democracy and the world looks upon her as an example of a successful, largest democracy. She commands respect as the people elect their own leaders.

You know democracy is listening to its people.

1) People of Kashmir do not want to be part of India or Pakistan
2) They have little in common with India culturally
3) They want their own leader
4) There is a UN resolution pending for 50 years for plebiscite
5) India has managed to postpone plebiscite for 50 years
6) Gross human rights violation in Kashmir concerns the world

Does it really matter to India if they become another Afghanistan or if they have se* everyday? So we greatly appreciate you move your as* out of Kashmir as soon as possible

Since you asked for, here is the wiki link for freedom
Freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace and god bless

For people suggesting Independent Kashmir as a solution, please list what is that you will gain in your daily life which you will not have otherwise.

Please exclude presence of military and their side effects, as there are other ways to solve that problem.

List down what do you mean by freedom.
 
Last edited:
Friend
You know democracy is listening to its people.

1) People of Kashmir do not want to be part of India or Pakistan
Narrow sample of people (just in the valley). 40% are non-muslims and they are happy staying in India. Out of the 60% there will be some more who are happy the way things are.

2) They have little in common with India culturally
Almost every state in India is culturally different from each other, thats the idea behind India. This is not a valid reason.

3) They want their own leader
They have chosen their own leader. Did Omar Adbullah come out of thin air and become the CM. Remember 70% voter turnout.

4) There is a UN resolution pending for 50 years for plebiscite.
5) India has managed to postpone plebiscite for 50 years
Plebiscite is for the whole region of JnK and has a lot of preconditions. Don't want to reiterate here. Go search and figure out why there couldn't have been a plebiscite.

6) Gross human rights violation in Kashmir concerns the world
Agree to some extent, but that is the case in other parts of India as well. Police often cross their limits to control the situation to prevent damage to pubic property and their own safety.
 
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