Kashmir is unfinished agenda which hinders regional peace-Resolution Must for Peace: Gen Raheel

[HRK]

Even the UN itself recognizes that the Simla Agreement supersedes its own resolutions, Sir.

plz post official documents of that 'claim' .....

 

[VCheng]

plz post official documents of that 'claim' .....

Please look up the official statements of the UN Sec Gen on your own.

 

[HRK]

Please look up the official statements of the UN Sec Gen on your own.

no rants just post the documents .... with clear wording upon which you are basing your claim ....

The statement which you referring is align with Chapter VI of UN charter under which UN have limited right of intervention not with Shimla agreement ....

 

[VCheng]

no rants just post the documents .... with clear wording upon which you are basing your claim ....

The statement which you referring is align with Chapter VI of UN charter under which UN have limited right of intervention not with Shimla agreement ....

Sir, the UN's stance is documented in its public records available on the InterWebz for your viewing pleasure if you are so inclined.

 

[HRK]

Sir, the UN's stance is documented in its public records available on the InterWebz for your viewing pleasure if you are so inclined.

Yes it is available ... then why are you shying to post it .... why are you just replying with posts of no value .... its your claim back it up ....

 

[VCheng]

Lets' accept the truth guys neither Pakistan will ever agree to make LoC into IB and nether India is going to give up its part of Kashmir. These talks have been going on for years and we all the know how far they have gotten neither Congress nor BJP while they were in power could solve it, and neither the PA nor the Pakistani Government while they were in power were able to solve it. The fact of matter is that we have to live with this now and whether we accept it or not is the issue because the reality is that neither international pressure nor force would ever change the ground realities the nuclear option has made it permanent.

At some point in the future, I am sure that political leadership on both sides will have matured enough to tackle and resolve this difficult issue.

 

[Spectre]

At some point in the future, I am sure that political leadership on both sides will have matured enough to tackle and resolve this difficult issue.

Requires an catalytic event - either positive or negative.

 

[Bang Galore]

At some point in the future, I am sure that political leadership on both sides will have matured enough to tackle and resolve this difficult issue.

Musharraf-MMS plan:

Salient points of the proposed Kashmir agreement

1. Reducing violence: Controlling cross-LoC movement of militants, an end to the terror support structure, and dismantling terror infrastructure directed towards India
2. Demilitarization: Both sides were to reduce their military footprints, initially by withdrawing troops from civilian areas
3. Self-Governance: Strengthening Article 370 and identical measures of self-governance on both sides of Jammu and Kashmir
4. Elections: Free and fair elections on both sides, open to the scrutiny of international observers and media
5. Defining Units of Kashmir: To address Pakistan’s claim on Gilgit-Baltistan, its gateway to China, it was decided to allow countries to hold administrative control of one or two regions
6. Joint Mechanism: Elected representatives nominated by governments would form a joint body to monitor cross-LoC trade, tour, travel etc
7. Common policies towards development and water resources: A body, along with both governments, would evolve common policies towards water and development issues
8. A monitoring and review process: Foreign ministers of the two countries would meet once a year to review progress. The agreement would come under review after 15 years
9. Treaty of Peace, Security and Friendship: The two countries would sign the treaty after outstanding issues are addressed. It would give them stakes in each other’s economic development

When Kashmir was almost resolved

 

[VCheng]

Requires an catalytic event - either positive or negative.

Musharraf-MMS plan:

Salient points of the proposed Kashmir agreement

1. Reducing violence: Controlling cross-LoC movement of militants, an end to the terror support structure, and dismantling terror infrastructure directed towards India
2. Demilitarization: Both sides were to reduce their military footprints, initially by withdrawing troops from civilian areas
3. Self-Governance: Strengthening Article 370 and identical measures of self-governance on both sides of Jammu and Kashmir
4. Elections: Free and fair elections on both sides, open to the scrutiny of international observers and media
5. Defining Units of Kashmir: To address Pakistan’s claim on Gilgit-Baltistan, its gateway to China, it was decided to allow countries to hold administrative control of one or two regions
6. Joint Mechanism: Elected representatives nominated by governments would form a joint body to monitor cross-LoC trade, tour, travel etc
7. Common policies towards development and water resources: A body, along with both governments, would evolve common policies towards water and development issues
8. A monitoring and review process: Foreign ministers of the two countries would meet once a year to review progress. The agreement would come under review after 15 years
9. Treaty of Peace, Security and Friendship: The two countries would sign the treaty after outstanding issues are addressed. It would give them stakes in each other’s economic development

When Kashmir was almost resolved

The solution must - and will - be achieved bilaterally, of that I am quite sure, but it will not be anytime soon.

 

[Bang Galore]

The solution must - and will - be achieved bilaterally, of that I am quite sure, but it will not be anytime soon.

Yeah, we have walked backwards since that proposal was almost worked out. Kayani withdrew his support & the PPP government wanted to hold out for more. 26/11 happened & then India balked at trusting Pakistan any more, especially after their reneging earlier. The present government won't accept anything close to this.

 

[Albatross]

Pakistan can withdraw unilaterally from the Simla Agreement, but it will pay a heavy price if it does that. As long as the gains are reasoned to be worth the costs, it might be an alternative. I would advise against it though.

I feel you did not my point simla agreement did not say that Kashmir issue is resolved and finished instead it accepted as a disputed territory and called for its settlement by mutual talks b/w Pak and Ind .But as is clear from Indian atoot ang rhetoric and their attempt at every possible occasion to downplay it has made it clear they are not serious in solving the problem which is against the simla agreement.

 

[VCheng]

Yeah, we have walked backwards since that proposal was almost worked out. Kayani withdrew his support & the PPP government wanted to hold out for more. 26/11 happened & then India balked at trusting Pakistan any more, especially after their reneging earlier. The present government won't accept anything close to this.

Three steps forward, two steps back, two the left, three to the right, then hoppity hop. That is the way most political processes go.

I feel you did not my point simla agreement did not say that Kashmir issue is resolved and finished instead it accepted as a disputed territory and called for its settlement by mutual talks b/w Pak and Ind .But as is clear from Indian atoot ang rhetoric and their attempt at every possible occasion to downplay it has made it clear they are not serious in solving the problem which is against the simla agreement.

Everybody recognizes Kashmir as disputed territory, including India. But everybody also knows that after the Simla Agreement, it is a bilateral matter, and no third party can intervene unless both sides agree to it.

 

[illusion8]

Your pain in ***is quite understandable as the strategy I mentioned is something thats being implemented at the moment with full fervor and will put endia's all RSS goons and their followers to their actual place .

I didnt mention the word CPEC in my earlier post OR did I? But indian obsession with it never let them sleep peacefully.

Such a pitty at your education standards and media which force you to believe the mess you people call india is some sort of shit power.

Russia recognizes Pakistan’s prime geopolitical potential
Dynamic Regional Scenario: Need of New Strategic Partner for Pakistan
Russia’s Strategic Pakistan Play | The Diplomat

Go outside of your cave and see whats going on in the world
To see what lies under this media created hype and delusions just see how this half india google CEO wipes his hand clean after shaking with your SHRI modi aka terrorist .

Agreed about simla but that was being done in a particular scenario and if india can break 2003 Line of control cease fire agreement we can put the simla thing in bin as well its time to get offensive at all fronts and let the people of kashmir decide their future not pakistan or india thats what Pakistan is asking which is quite right in its place .

Also an important point is simla agreement asked India and pakistan both to resolve kashmir issue not to let it hang forever and indian wish to continue with status quo has already clearly violated that agreement thus making it null and void.

The reason I made that post for people to start to think at least beyond what's being fed in the media..

Pakistan's strategic importance? Pakistan the zipper, Pakistan's geo political potential?
Russia and China have till date have done pretty well for themselves and have become global powers without utilizing Pakistan's "strategic, Geo political importance...why is that?

The only country that is dependent on Pakistan is Afghanistan because of their land locked state. Neither Iran nor India are dependent on Pakistan's strategic or geo political importance.

The only country Russia is keen on is Afghanistan - and that too to have a handle on the terrorists and the drugs that flow from there...they even went to the extent of providing their biggest foe - the Americans - land route for transit through their territory for more than a decade and allowed the US to spread their influence all over Russia's own backyard...why did they do that?

Sound bites mean jack..it's a clear case of overestimating one's importance.

 

[Albatross]

The reason I made that post for people to start to think at least beyond what's being fed in the media..

Pakistan's strategic importance? Pakistan the zipper, Pakistan's geo political potential?
Russia and China have till date have done pretty well for themselves and have become global powers without utilizing Pakistan's "strategic, Geo political importance...why is that?

The only country that is dependent on Pakistan is Afghanistan because of their land locked state. Neither Iran nor India are dependent on Pakistan's strategic or geo political importance.

The only country Russia is keen on is Afghanistan - and that too to have a handle on the terrorists and the drugs that flow from there...they even went to the extent of providing their biggest foe - the Americans - land route for transit through their territory for more than a decade and allowed the US to spread their influence all over Russia's own backyard...why did they do that?

Sound bites mean jack..it's a clear case of overestimating one's importance.

If someone is adamant on calling a crow white you cant do much to let him see the truth as he lacks even basics.

Pakistan even after passing through the extreme chaotic times and terrorism has managed to be worlds 7th Nuclear power and has worlds sixth largest population and is on a positive trajectory mean among emerging economies point here is Pakistan is where it is on its own as well.

Now coming towards Russia , China and Iran well for a good observer its a very good hint that strategic realignment is under process and a strong and cooperating Pakitsan is in interest of whole of central and south asia.

China is loosing steam fast as its only eastern China thats developed whole of central and western China is far behind and to bring it on par with rest of country they need cheap energy that can only come from Pakitsan.

Russia has realized who is acting irresponsibly in India-Pakistan conflict and has thus started to strengthen pakistan just to make sure no one can bully her to bow to any illogical or unlawful terms and this is proven by the fact both Pak and Ind were made SCO members simultaneously . Its not only weapons russia plans to invest heavily in Pak infrastructure which shows her long term plans for Pakistan.

Iran/ KSA has to sell their gas and oil to China which cant be done without Pakistan.

Bottom line is if any of these states have reached where they are without Pakistan so have we on our own as well.
Our nukes,Cruise missiles and JF 17 proves that .

Now if any state feel that it can use Pakistan for its economic gains and there are three major asain powers thinking that way Iran , China and Russia its good for us and for them mutually .

Same way we have no issues easing indian energy import bill but in our equation Kashmir is a big hurdle otherwise we pakistanis have nothing against india its their country what they do or what they dont.


So if any one thinks light of Pakistan or underestimate her abilities and influence he is seriously mistaken .

One last things all the articles I posted projecting considerable increase in Pakistans influence in coming times are written by either Russian or European authors so I guess its better if india waked up and smell the coffee .

 

[illusion8]

If someone is adamant on calling a crow white you cant do much to let him see the truth as he lacks even basics.

Pakistan even after passing through the extreme chaotic times and terrorism has managed to be worlds 7th Nuclear power and has worlds sixth largest population and is on a positive trajectory mean among emerging economies point here is Pakistan is where it is on its own as well.

Now coming towards Russia , China and Iran well for a good observer its a very good hint that strategic realignment is under process and a strong and cooperating Pakitsan is in interest of whole of central and south asia.

China is loosing steam fast as its only eastern China thats developed whole of central and western China is far behind and to bring it on par with rest of country they need cheap energy that can only come from Pakitsan.

Russia has realized who is acting irresponsibly in India-Pakistan conflict and has thus started to strengthen pakistan just to make sure no one can bully her to bow to any illogical or unlawful terms and this is proven by the fact both Pak and Ind were made SCO members simultaneously . Its not only weapons russia plans to invest heavily in Pak infrastructure which shows her long term plans for Pakistan.

Iran/ KSA has to sell their gas and oil to China which cant be done without Pakistan.

Bottom line is if any of these states have reached where they are without Pakistan so have we on our own as well.
Our nukes,Cruise missiles and JF 17 proves that .

Now if any state feel that it can use Pakistan for its economic gains and there are three major asain powers thinking that way Iran , China and Russia its good for us and for them mutually .

Same way we have no issues easing indian energy import bill but in our equation Kashmir is a big hurdle otherwise we pakistanis have nothing against india its their country what they do or what they dont.


So if any one thinks light of Pakistan or underestimate her abilities and influence he is seriously mistaken .

One last things all the articles I posted projecting considerable increase in Pakistans influence in coming times are written by either Russian or European authors so I guess its better if india waked up and smell the coffee .

Nothing concrete in your argument..being nuclear power thanks to china and being a high populated country ..nukes, cruise missiles, JF17 - thanks to china,.

Please explain to me why all the global powers and the superpowers of the world have not depended on pakistan...being a road for china isn't a great strategic position..I don't know what russia would want to export through pakistan?..crude to ME? or russian weapons and soldiers to syria?..end of the day..everyone is doing fine without pakistan...except poor Afghanistan.

India is doing great without central asian oil ..neither do we yearn for it.,,chinese middle and western regions will depend on the various pipelines from central asia and russia..why would they want to land up in pakistan?..end of the day..pakistan is just a back up plan..just like burma is..again..overestimating one's self worth..and calling yourself important to the world when the world that actually matters isn't even linked to paksitan.