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Kashmir files vs The Shudra

you can speak for yourself, India works perfectly. it is Pakistan that needs separation. The Pashtoon doesn't accept the Durand Line. Balochis are killing your Jawans every day nearly. Your state can not even pay its own embassies. It's a system close to collapse, India works, say what you want about Modi, his admin has made ease of doing buisness way better


India is a utter communal shithole , Indians hate each other more then we hate Hindus
, It's a disaster of a state

Own your eyes, this amount of toxic hate is not sustainable
 
Sudra is just a masochistic love child of Bollywood. It extrapolates one horrible incident into its worst possible.
Since the work in question concerns ancient history (depicting post-IVC period), we can only rely on the written sources to ascertain the allegation(s) of extrapolation. To my (limited) knowledge, Indian written sources (Manusmriti?) paints a consistent picture to what is portrayed in the film, do you have any contrary evidence to backup your claim?
 
It's not what I say, it's what's happening on the ground in India, you surely can't be this blind to the toxic hate spreading like wildfire across India
I go to India quite regularly and I can tell you from first-hand experience, this is fake news. quit beliving in your BS propaganda. Dont be surprised when "saqoot e Dhaka" Happens again.
 
Since the work in question concerns ancient history (depicting post-IVC period), we can only rely on the written sources to ascertain the allegation(s) of extrapolation. To my (limited) knowledge, Indian written sources (Manusmriti?) paints a consistent picture to what is portrayed in the film, do you have any contrary evidence to backup your claim?
What's written and what was practically applied are two different things. Im making my assessment on family history and stories passed down to me.
 
What's written and what was practically applied are two different things. Im making my assessment on family history and stories passed down to me.
That is a very bad way to learn about history objectively. Oral history of few families are biased by design and holds no weight in a serious discussion. Millions other families may have an opposite tale to tell, why should your family be given the sole right to tell the truth?
Oh well, I feel you don't have any reasonable argument in this regard, I will refrain from the discussion unless presented with a more compelling justification for the accusation.
 
Christian priests and their supportive monarchy which were the ones who persecuted the Jews and gave them the choice to either convert to Christianity or be tortured to death.
In many places in the Indian subcontinent, Muslims did the same thing against the Hindus. They also did the same thing with Zoroastrians in Persia.
3. "Afghanistan is now cleansed of Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs"... Sad of course
Yes, very sad lol.
Sikhism also came about to counter the wrong elements of Hindu society. Guru Nanak made a pilgrimage to Mecca too.
Nope, Guru Nanak didn't make any Mecca pilgrimage. Please get your facts correct. Sikhism was also established to counter the wrong elements of Muslim society since that was one of the dominant faith in Punjab.
From the Hare Krishna people to "Sadhguru", all these are missionaries to reach India and abroad other than being arms of the Hindutvadis.
All Muslim preachers in India are the arms of ISIS and Wahabbism who want to eventually impose Shariah.
I mentioned just one film, Ram Ke Naam, and mentioned it because you were legitimizing Agnihotri's film so I extended the argument and spoke of a much older film - from 30 years ago - which was about the Hindutvadis so you please give your opinion.
Why do you want to go 30 years back? We have also made a film called 'PK'. I would like to imagine what would have happened if the same mocking would have occurred with the Muslim religion. Oh yes, something like that already occurred and the owner of the Charlie Hebdo magazine was murdered.
1. Well, though you have not said to me explicitly that you are against casteism I knew you are against it that is why I tagged you here to see what kind of views and acts exist in India even in 2022. :)
We have debated on this already.
2. I glanced through the document and it may have been me hurrying through it but the laws certainly did not incite fear into @Sharma Ji when he wanted to project his 3000-year-old oppressive ways and ended up saying "He must be a chamar" as a slur. Umar Khalid is in jail, Kobad Ghandy was in jail and Stan Swamy died in jail but Sharma Ji is not punished one day after he used that slur and put ha ha react on me questioning him on that ? What use of such a law then in Sharma's context and in context of that Karnataka village whose elders and priests imposed 25,000 rupees fine on a Dalit family whose two-year-old child walking into a temple and in context of a Dalit police officer whose wedding procession in Gujarat I think ( "Vibrant Gujarat" according to Dear Leader ) had to be protected by his police colleagues because of threat of upper caste villagers stoning the procession.
But there have been multiple incidents where the upper castes have been punished. Why not highlights those as well? Or are you saying upper castes have always got off?
3. While idol worship is irrational especially to me as a Communist Muslim I agree with you that those Muslims who deride Hindus as "Dirty" and "Cow piss drinkers" are being no less anti-human, irrational and casteist as Sharma Ji who said "He must be a chamar" as a slur.
What's the objective of worship? Inner peace, right? So who the hell are you to tell idol worshipping is irrational or not. Feel free to criticize other aspects such as casteism but idol worshipping is not something which should be criticized. The person has full freedom in the way he wants to worship as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. I see so many stupid Muslims who think Islam is superior just because there's no idol worship (even Hinduism has monotheism as one of its schools of thought way before Islam), that's such an illogical way of thinking. It also gives a good indication of what Muslims actually think about Hindus, not very different from how upper castes who believe in casteism thinking about lower castes.
4. It is not that "All Hindus" burned the Manusmriti but it was Ambedkar and his comrades specifically who did that. :) And that was in 1927. Do you think if Dalit leaders like Jignesh Mevani and Chandrashekhar Azad did it now they will not be lynched or at least have 50 court cases lodged against them by the Hindutvadis and in various parts of the country to exhaust those two completely ? :)
That's still a substantial amount. Now imagine the same thing happening with your 'holy' book.
5. The Quran is primarily a guide book to develop a simple, progressive, rational and humane society politically and socio-economically to the extent possible by some 1400 years ago, whether in terms of creating the first codified rights for the female in marriage which others later derived from or having a just inheritance law or in how generally the socio-economic system should be run for example on an interest-less basis which if in India had been applied then those 350,000+ farmers who suicided just between 1995 and 2015, would not have done so. :) But there are some ritualist parts to Islam and some confrontational with regards to other existing religious communities and if these two are disregarded or discarded then the essence of real Islam still remains and this won't be apparent to you if you cast an unthoughtful glance at many of today's Indian Muslims with their silly, oppressive and non-Islamci dress codes and anti-Islamic anti-intellectual behavior, self-ghettoization and self-otherization. A few decades ago Muslims were led by intellectuals and revolutionaries but unfortunately now many are led by mullahs who enable irrationalties like "World Hijab Day". It is now for the intellectuals and revolutionaries to take back leadership of Muslims and meld their actually progressive religion ( when many others were regressive and oppressive ) into modern Communism because that is natural and Hindus should also participate in this melding since Hinduism has one wonderful concept : Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam ( "The wold is one family" ), which thus should not prevent Hindus from uniting under a common human umbella with Communists, real Muslims, Sikhs and Christians.
Good to see you atleast acknowledging that there's a problem with some aspects of it (there are many that I can think of actually). That's a good start, we need more Muslims like you who wants reforms in their religion. And we also need Hindus who reject casteism in Hinduism. But this can't just go one way where only one religion is criticized.
6. The Manusmiriti has to be rejected completely since its political and socio-economic ideas are largely anti-human and irrational but since you say there was some nice thoughts in it can you please post here what those are ? And even then those thoughts can be incorporated into a new ideology that derives from the good of all ideologies which I wrote in point# 5.
Fathers, brothers, husbands, and brothers-in-laws who wish for great good fortune should revere women and adorn them 3-55

The gods delight in places where women are respected, but where women are not honoured all rites are fruitless 3-56

For by punishing the wicked and by favouring the virtous, kings are constantly sanctified, just as twice born men by sacrifices. 8-311

Unless one is asked, one must not explain anything to anybody, nor must one answer a person who asks improperly; let a wise man though he knows the answer behave among men as if he were an idiot 2-110

Even from poison nectar may be taken, even from a child good advice, even from a foe good conduct and even from impure substance gold (2-239).

6. I watched the trailer and the questions of the man were nice but was confused by the tagline "Find your faith". Please elaborate.
You should watch the movie for that.
 
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Kashmir police on Kashmiri Pandits' killing. Total Pandits killed = 89, since 1990s.
 
Tell me my options.

You are MIA, and seemingly in perpetual hot water. Where are you when I need you?

This Akshay whatever number, is Suvarna Teja, a known flamebaiter. Why do you waste your intellectual bandwith on a faker? Now he is trying to flamebait on the Brahmos thread with identical cringe.
 
In many places in the Indian subcontinent, Muslims did the same thing against the Hindus. They also did the same thing with Zoroastrians in Persia.

Yes, very sad lol.

Nope, Guru Nanak didn't make any Mecca pilgrimage. Please get your facts correct. Sikhism was also established to counter the wrong elements of Muslim society since that was one of the dominant faith in Punjab.

All Muslim preachers in India are the arms of ISIS and Wahabbism who want to eventually impose Shariah.

Why do you want to go 30 years back? We have also made a film called 'PK'. I would like to imagine what would have happened if the same mocking would have occurred with the Muslim religion. Oh yes, something like that already occurred and the owner of the Charlie Hebdo magazine was murdered.

We have debated on this already.

But there have been multiple incidents where the upper castes have been punished. Why not highlights those as well? Or are you saying upper castes have always got off?

What's the objective of worship? Inner peace, right? So who the hell are you to tell idol worshipping is irrational or not. Feel free to criticize other aspects such as casteism but idol worshipping is not something which should be criticized. The person has full freedom in the way he wants to worship as long as it doesn't cause harm to others. I see so many stupid Muslims who think Islam is superior just because there's no idol worship (even Hinduism has monotheism as one of its schools of thought way before Islam), that's such an illogical way of thinking. It also gives a good indication of what Muslims actually think about Hindus, not very different from how upper castes who believe in casteism thinking about lower castes.

That's still a substantial amount. Now imagine the same thing happening with your 'holy' book.

Good to see you atleast acknowledging that there's a problem with some aspects of it (there are many that I can think of actually). That's a good start, we need more Muslims like you who wants reforms in their religion. And we also need Hindus who reject casteism in Hinduism. But this can't just go one way where only one religion is criticized.

Fathers, brothers, husbands, and brothers-in-laws who wish for great good fortune should revere women and adorn them 3-55

The gods delight in places where women are respected, but where women are not honoured all rites are fruitless 3-56

For by punishing the wicked and by favouring the virtous, kings are constantly sanctified, just as twice born men by sacrifices. 8-311

Unless one is asked, one must not explain anything to anybody, nor must one answer a person who asks improperly; let a wise man though he knows the answer behave among men as if he were an idiot 2-110

Even from poison nectar may be taken, even from a child good advice, even from a foe good conduct and even from impure substance gold (2-239).


You should watch the movie for that.
What was it about @jamahir 's post that upset you so much? Just curious.
 
It is Allah's command not mine but of course if you actually were a Muslim you'd know perhaps there are no women in your family for you to protect hence this attitude

You simply use environment-received fear-mongering Talibanic words like "It is Allah's command" to insert your inherent misogyny, patriarchy, irrationality and anti-humanity into debates when you have no rational answer. Joe said it right below :

The patriarchal privilege of the male.


" O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal… And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a separation (Hijab)" Quran 33; 53.

Yet :
The Battle of the Camel, also known as the Battle of Jamel or the Battle of Basra, took place outside of Basra, Iraq, in 36 AH/656 CE. The battle was fought between the army of the fourth caliph, Ali, on one side, and the rebel army led by Aisha, Talha and Zubayr, on the other side. Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, whereas Aisha was a widow of Muhammad, and Talha and Zubayr were both prominent companions of Muhammad.
The events and text in the Quran and the events during Hazrat Muhammad's life and after have to be seen in context of the times and with an educated interpretationary guess because :
Parvez [ pre-Partition Indian and later-Pakistani Islamic scholar Ghulam Ahmed Parvez ] was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.


"... And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not to expose their adornment (zinatahuna) except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers (Khumurihina) over their chests (Juyubihina) and not to expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons” Quran 24;31

I looked up that verse in Abdullah Yusuf Ali's English translation and that is his interpretation and I may, after learning Arabic find my own interpretation. Secondly, the verse continues onto something you didn't mention - slaves :
Or their sisters' sons or their women,
or the slaves whom their right hands possess,
Or male servants free of physical needs
Now, are you speaking for bringing back the slavery system ?

Continuing, what you quoted and wanted to imply is contradictory to Quran 2:221 :
And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember
There are two things here : (a). Are you again speaking for bringing back the slave system ? (b). How is a Muslim female supposed to find an unrelated male attractive to her in some way unless she either gets to know of him somehow and finds his qualities appealing or she sees him by vision once or multiple times and finds him attractive ?

Didn't ask and don't care about who that Nasser guy was, furthermore the real puppets are those who support commies and lgbtq diseases like you do

"That Nasser guy" was and is most hated by the "Muslim" puppets of the Western Crusader governments. Puppets like "Muslim" Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and Tableeghi Jamaat. The most "recent marvelous work" of the TJ was to be used by the CIA in CIA's plot to do regime-change in Kazakhstan and install a mullah government that is friendly to the Western governments and not to Russia.

Again, from the LGBT "diseases" the G disease is quite common among those who hate Nasser and his likes. Though I am not humanly against the Gs but when the same mullahs do this thing themselves but then condemn it among those not of their mullah kind it is hypocritical.

Again I don't care what Nasser's "female" relatives do they will answer Allah themselves for their own deeds

Why exactly are you consigning Nasser's female relatives to hell ?

In your constant quest to deliver yourself and the females to a misogynist, patriarchal and irrational version of morality in the afterlife you have or want to create a hell in your living time for yourself, for the females and for humans generally.

Any other stupid thing you'd like to add to this thread? or you're done?

Just try to answer the above logically, rationally, with the mindset of a cat.

---

@KedarT and @MilSpec, will reply to you tomorrow.
 

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