Kashmir all-party meet: Modi discusses atrocities in Azad Kashmir, Balochistan

[Crixus]

We can understand English ...its written First Pakistan to do that , but now no benefit as you have already sold Aksaichin to China and Shimla agreement has superseded first take back Aksaichin

https://defence.pk/threads/india-should-accept-defeat-before-kashmiris’-struggle-says-nawaz.440188/page-17#post-8503572

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Viper0011. ...dont talk crap!...The revolt you are talking about are not for seperation..they atre called Naxalities..(Read up on it)....By any chance are you a school kid?....As far as sabotage peace inside Baluchistan....You do know that the rebels are begging for Indian support right?....Also please do read up on USA's current stand on Kashmir...at least support our Govenment of USA's stand on this.......also a request put your real flags up!...I am a citizen of this great country...(USA).. holding a PIO card....and I support USA stand on this issue.

He says that he's been on the subject for forty years. I say that he has read up Pakistani pamphlets and is spewing out a poorly digested sample.

 

[M. Sarmad]

We can understand English ...its written First Pakistan to do that ,

No, You don't... It's plain and simple English:

"In the end, I became convinced that India`s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any such form, or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite of any such character, as would in my opinion permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation, and other forms of abuse by which the freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled." (Para 52 of Document S/1971)



Sir Owen Dixon, the prominent Australian jurist, was a UN appointed official mediator between India and Pakistan. He met with the Indian and Pakistani officials many times to discuss the demilitarization process and exercise of the functions of government during plebiscite period (necessary for holding a free and fair plebiscite). But India was not willing to agree to any form of demilitarization (or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite that were necessary for holding a free and fair plebiscite) and that's why, in the final report submitted by him to the Security Council, he blamed India for halting the process.

Later, the UN in its Resolution No. 98, adopted on 23rd December 1952, after a thorough examination of the matter in the Security Council, proposed a demilitarization plan. But again, India rejected the proposal (Pakistan agreed to it).


So, the UN appointed official mediator blamed India for refusing to accept any demilitarization plan, and later India rejected UN demilitarization proposals (thus proving Sir Owen Dixon right). Now compare it with the Indian State Propaganda/claim: "the plebiscite could not be held because Pakistan refused to withdraw its forces"

In the face of the clear and irrefutable evidence that comes from the UN itself, the Indian claim holds no credibility and the Indian State Propaganda is patently an attempt to deceive the world. The simple truth is that India did not allow the creation of conditions necessary for the holding of a free and fair plebiscite under UN auspices.

 

[Crixus]

A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER ( which word you are not able to understand in this line). First get Aksaichin which you have sold ??????

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

(b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following
paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or
party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and
that therefore they should co-operate in the maintenance of peace and order.

2. The Government of India should:

(a) When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the
Council's Resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for
the cessation of the fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the
Commission a plan for withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing
them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of the civil power in the
maintenance of law and order;

(b) Make known that the withdrawal is taking place in stages and announce the completion of
each stage; When the Indian forces shall have been reduced to the minimum strength
mentioned in (a) above, arrange in consultation with the Commission for the stationing of the
remaining forces to be carried out in accordance with the following principles:

No, You don't... It's plain and simple English:

"In the end, I became convinced that India`s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any such form, or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite of any such character, as would in my opinion permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation, and other forms of abuse by which the freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled." (Para 52 of Document S/1971)

 

[ChennaiDude]

He says that he's been on the subject for forty years. I say that he has read up Pakistani pamphlets and is spewing out a poorly digested sample.

If he is really from USA..I am sure he is from Arlington, VA....I have met a whole lot of these 2nd generation kids ... who are fed wrong information......I usually just ignore these punks.

 

[Crixus]

Then why not you declare Pakistan Occupied Kashmir as free country and let every country open their embassies including Pakistan ex Bangladesh there let them have their own passports ..... who is stopping you to do that

What an idotic and immature country India is!!! It just baffling. Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute. Its people dont want to live with India. That too is a known fact. And they are talking Azad Kashmir!

 

[M. Sarmad]

He says that he's been on the subject for forty years. I say that he has read up Pakistani pamphlets and is spewing out a poorly digested sample.

And I say he knows about the subject more than the Indians we have here on PDF (there are a few exceptions of course) .. ... I have seen you give positive ratings to Indian Members for posting the usual Indian lies and blatantly false propaganda on this subject .... We all have our biases and prejudices, Sir

 

[Viper0011.]

Are you drunk, on drugs, or arithmetically challenged? Four decades?

Yup, 4 decades, meaning 40 years, meaning 1 decade = 10 year * 4 = 40 years!! Tell me that I just made you think that I am an Indian also, with my shinny, superior mathematical skills. Of course, no one else can do better Math than India. Wait, did I just say that? Its a myth......

 

[duhastmish]

Time has come to address this grave issue of Kashmiri and Bloch in Pakistan.
So they can live happily and prosper in a fair society not unfair organisation they are suffering right now

 

[Joe Shearer]

And I say he knows about the subject more than the Indians we have here on PDF (there are a few exceptions of course) .. ... I have seen you give positive ratings to Indian Members for posting the usual Indian lies and blatantly false propaganda on this subject .... We all have our biases and prejudices, Sir

Please show me those. I have tried to be even-handed, but if somebody of your stature says I have made a mistake, I will certainly inspect that rating.

 

[Viper0011.]

He says that he's been on the subject for forty years. I say that he has read up Pakistani pamphlets and is spewing out a poorly digested sample.

I've sat with UN people on either side. Unlike you, I represent no one, I represent the truth. And yes, 40 years, FOUR ZERO years. Back when Gen. Zia had taken over Pakistan and Ms. Gandhi was still alive, jumping and pumping Indian politics!! I've said it many times on here, not everyone on here is a fanboy.

Sometimes, you hear or face the bitter truth. You can try to f*uk with it but it only gets worst. Better to swallow the pride and accept the reality. There is nothing wrong with it. Also, allow me to surprise you more. The most propaganda I've ever seen (even WAY more than what the Communists did) can now be found in a 4th grader child's text books in India. Like the Vedic times, this stuff about Kashmir where Mr. Jinnah "signed" away the Kashmir. Totally lying about the reality of the fact that apparently the "largest democracy" on the planet claiming nation, un-democratically, and with force, took over an entire state where 91% of the people had voted against it.

Even today, if per the UN's decision back in the 60's, and respecting the Kashmiri population, a VOTE is conducted, Kashmir would become an independent state in days ( a VOTE is a human and a democratic right of the people to pick how and by whom they want to be governed). This is just the reality. I won't argue more. There is a saying, if you argue with stupids, they would bring you down to their level and will try to beat with stupidity and talk.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yup, 4 decades, meaning 40 years, meaning 1 decade = 10 year * 4 = 40 years!! Tell me that I just made you think that I am an Indian also, with my shinny, superior mathematical skills. Of course, no one else can do better Math than India. Wait, did I just say that? Its a myth......

The fact that you know your way around the 10 times table does not really add much to your reputation. Should someone with forty years of information about international affairs still talk of shinny mathematics?

No, You don't... It's plain and simple English:

"In the end, I became convinced that India`s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any such form, or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite of any such character, as would in my opinion permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation, and other forms of abuse by which the freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled." (Para 52 of Document S/1971)



Sir Owen Dixon, the prominent Australian jurist, was a UN appointed official mediator between India and Pakistan. He met with the Indian and Pakistani officials many times to discuss the demilitarization process and exercise of the functions of government during plebiscite period (necessary for holding a free and fair plebiscite). But India was not willing to agree to any form of demilitarization (or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite that were necessary for holding a free and fair plebiscite) and that's why, in the final report submitted by him to the Security Council, he blamed India for halting the process.

Later, the UN in its Resolution No. 98, adopted on 23rd December 1952, after a thorough examination of the matter in the Security Council, proposed a demilitarization plan. But again, India rejected the proposal (Pakistan agreed to it).


So, the UN appointed official mediator blamed India for refusing to accept any demilitarization plan, and later India rejected UN demilitarization proposals (thus proving Sir Owen Dixon right). Now compare it with the Indian State Propaganda/claim: "the plebiscite could not be held because Pakistan refused to withdraw its forces"

In the face of the clear and irrefutable evidence that comes from the UN itself, the Indian claim holds no credibility and the Indian State Propaganda is patently an attempt to deceive the world. The simple truth is that India did not allow the creation of conditions necessary for the holding of a free and fair plebiscite under UN auspices.

Of course, the fact that he sought to put his own interpretation on the original resolutions and bring in a constructive solution of his own construction, blatantly favouring one side over the other, has nothing to do with your profound admiration of the man.

 

[Hamza913]

I've sat with UN people on either side. Unlike you, I represent no one, I represent the truth. And yes, 40 years, FOUR ZERO years. Back when Gen. Zia had taken over Pakistan and Ms. Gandhi was still alive, jumping and pumping Indian politics!! I've said it many times on here, not everyone on here is a fanboy.

Sometimes, you hear or face the bitter truth. You can try to f*uk with it but it only gets worst. Better to swallow the pride and accept the reality. There is nothing wrong with it. Also, allow me to surprise you more. The most propaganda I've ever seen (even WAY more than Communists did) can now be found in a 4th grader child's text book in India. Like the Vedic times, this stuff about Kashmir where Mr. Jinnah "signed" away the Kashmir. Totally lying about the reality of the fact that apparently the "largest democracy" on the planet claiming nation, un-democratically took over an entire state where 91% of the people had voted against it.

Even today, if per the UN's decision back in the 60's, and respecting the Kashmiri population, a VOTE is conducted, Kashmir would become an independent state in days ( a VOTE is a human and a democratic right of the people to pick how and by whom they want to be governed). This is just the reality. I won't argue more. There is a saying, if you argue with stupids, they would bring you down to their level and will try to beat with stupidity and talk.

Excellent piece, you have earned a follower!

 

[monitor]

Never heard Azad Kashmirs people complaining about Pakistan. Modi is a cunning guy after killing 55 civilian he is taking about azad Kashmir just to hide atrocities committed for decades by Indian occupied forces.

 

[Viper0011.]

Read the link

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ommRmaG8Q4wC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=pakistan+supporting+insurgency+in+kashmir+-us&source=bl&ots=taxbpxWu2s&sig=UHGzox3dXxM1XwQYcXczIxdkSb8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0uOvOnr3OAhXJNo8KHSX2B7MQ6AEIKzAH#v=onepage&q=pakistan supporting insurgency in kashmir -us&f=false

pages 176-178

google.co. IN (India)?? You want me to believe an Indian source? The same India who blatantly ignored 91% of the people's vote and their democratic right and forcefully took over an entire state? Where 91% NINETY ONE PERCENT population didn't want to be with India? Yea, your link is VERY trustworthy.

Care to have ever read the UN resolution? (There were multiple). Here, for your weekend reading and truth seeking if it makes a different. But it won't make a cents worth of difference. You guys are butchering humans and you think because of your trade power, the world should be ok with it. Not sure how you guys sleep as it makes every individual from India part of this. Instead of being a human and raising voice against the genocide of Kashmiris (like the USC professor showed in his study in California)!!

The 6B was created specifically for the Indian military forces and other political people who came to Kashmir because of Maharaja's request and took over the entire state instead of abiding by the democratic process and transferring power per the people!!

Here, the UN resolution for you:

Resolution of 13 August 1948:

1. The question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite;

2. A plebiscite will be held when it shall be found by the Commission that the cease-fire and truce arrangements set forth in Parts I and II of the Commission's resolution of 13 August 1948 have been carried out and arrangements for the plebiscite have been completed;

3.
(a) The Secretary-General of the United Nations will, in agreement with the Commission, nominate a Plebiscite Administrator who shall be a personality of high international standing and commanding general confidence. He will be formally appointed to office by the Government of Jammu and Kashmir.

(b) The Plebiscite Administrator shall derive from the State of Jammu and Kashmir the powers he considers necessary for organizing and conducting the plebiscite and for ensuring the freedom and impartiality of the plebiscite.

(c) The Plebiscite Administrator shall have authority to appoint such staff of assistants and observes as he may require.

4.
(a) After implementation of Parts I and II of the Commission's resolution of 13 August 1948, and when the Commission is satisfied that peaceful conditions have been restored in the State, the Commission and the Plebiscite Administrator will determine, in consultation with the Government of India, the final disposal of Indian and State armed forces, such disposal to be with due regard to the security of the State and the freedom of the plebiscite.

(b) As regards the territory referred to in A.2 of Part II of the resolution of 13 August, final disposal of the armed forces in that territory will be determined by the Commission and the Plebiscite Administrator in consultation with the local authorities.

5. All civil and military authorities within the State and the principal political elements of the State will be required to co-operate with the Plebiscite Administrator in the preparation for the holding of the plebiscite.

6.
(a) All citizens of the State who have left it on account of the disturbances will be invited and be free to return and to exercise all their rights as such citizens. For the purpose of facilitating repatriation there shall be appointed two Commissions, one composed of nominees of India and the other of nominees of Pakistan. The Commission shall operate under the direction of the Plebiscite Administrator. The Governments of India and Pakistan and all authorities within the State of Jammu and Kashmir will collaborate with the Plebiscite Administrator in putting this provision into effect.

(b) All person (other than citizens of the State) who on or since 15 August 1947 have entered it for other than lawful purpose, shall be required to leave the State.

7. All authorities within the State of Jammu and Kashmir will undertake to ensure, in collaboration with the Plebiscite Administrator, that:

(a) There is no threat, coercion or intimidation, bribery or other undue influence on the voters in the plebiscite;

(b) No restrictions are placed on legitimate political activity throughout the State. All subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste or party, shall be safe and free in expressing their views and in voting on the question of the accession of the State to India or Pakistan. There shall be freedom of the press, speech and assembly and freedom of travel in the State, including freedom of lawful entry and exit;

(c) All political prisoners are released;

(d) Minorities in all parts of the State are accorded adequate protection; and

(e) There is no victimization.

8. The Plebiscite Administrator may refer to the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan problems on which he may require assistance, and the Commission may in its discretion call upon the Plebiscite Administrator to carry out on its behalf any of the responsibilities with which it has been entrusted;

9. At the conclusion of the plebiscite, the Plebiscite Administrator shall report the result thereof to the Commission and to the Government of Jammu and Kashmir. The Commission shall then certify to the Security Council whether the plebiscite has or has not been free and impartial;

10. Upon the signature of the truce agreement the details of the foregoing proposals will be elaborated in the consultations envisaged in Part III of the Commission's resolution of 13 August 1948. The Plebiscite Administrator will be fully associated in these consultations;

Commends the Governments of India and Pakistan for their prompt action in ordering a cease-fire to take effect from one minute before midnight of 1 January 1949, pursuant to the agreement arrived at as provided for by the Commission's Resolution of 13 August 1948; and

Resolves to return in the immediate future to the Sub-continent to discharge the responsibilities imposed upon it by the Resolution of 13 August 1948 and by the foregoing principles.