Kasab says he was never given training in Pakistan

[Aslan]

I might i hi-jack the thread here.

But how many Of you feel Kasab deserves the Death penalty as opposed to Life imprisonment.

Wha do you feel would be the more accurate punishment.

My answer is already there in the statement that you have quoted.

 

[deckingraj]

Now for your double standards a crime is a crime and a pig caught in my country even though he is just a spy deserves to be shoot. Now go cry a river, you gandhiwadi hypocrite. And if you even have an iota of shame in you which i doubt don't come back to waist my time.

I know that we talked about same issue yesterday however i have couple of questions for you...

a) I went through your series of posts with Sarthak....May be i am biased yet i can feel the frustration and anger in your posts..Lets say for the sake of argument that you are right does that mean you should loose your cool??? This is a discussion forum and people will have different opinion..Don't you think so???

b) Now let me show you why you are wrong...Here are my views on some of your statements...Please feel free to correct if you have not made those statements...

- Spy is a pig and should be shot...

What does your Law says about spy..Is the punishment death penalty??? Lets say yes then do you think he/she has to be proven a spy first in the eye's of Law?? If no then on what basis you are saying that he should have been shot??

If yes(Spy should be hanged as per Law) then was Kashmir Singh prooven beyond doubt about his wrong doings?? If yes then what was the reason for keeping him in Jail for 35 years??? Do you think it is unhuman to lock a person for 35 years??

If no the don't you think it is inhuman to lock a person for 35 years against whom you don't have substantial proofs???


- Clown musharaf wanted to be known as some saint full of mercy

He was full of mercy or you seems to have tough stand on Kashmir singh because he is an Indian??... I did ask you last time also is serving 35 years in a Pakistani Jail not enough of a punishment...What else you would achieve by hanging him...you would have done that way back if you had enough proofs....


- Pakistani's killed in Indian Jails
I already replied on this part in my previous posts...Here are some indina versions as well

An Indian prisoner reaches home after spending 20 years in Pakistan jail
Indian national dies in Pak jail in 'suspicious circumstances' - dnaindia.com


Now tell me shall i step in your shoes and start asking for killing of the Pak baby who lived because of doctors in my land...

Docs give Pak baby a 'hearty' gift
Pakistani boy's heart beats thanks to Dr Venugopal


P.S : All i want from you is to think rationally...Our hatred for each other have consumed many lives...Though i don't mind showing hatred on an internet forum than in an actual war yet expecting rational thinking from so called educated people on both sides should not be too much to ask for...What say???

 

[FreekiN]

Ok so far i understood:

Kasab is from Pakistan. Kasab is allegedly from Lashkar-e-Taiba. Kasab says he was caught 20 days before 26/11 and Kasab now says he wasn't given training in Pakistan.

WTF?

 

[Aslan]

I know that we talked about same issue yesterday however i have couple of questions for you...

a) I went through your series of posts with Sarthak....May be i am biased yet i can feel the frustration and anger in your posts..Lets say for the sake of argument that you are right does that mean you should loose your cool??? This is a discussion forum and people will have different opinion..Don't you think so???

The problem that I have had and yes i felt anger because if you read the statements made my Sarthak he is constantly accusing me of statements that I have not made. And when that happens any one gets angry, why should I be explaining something over and over I don't owe that to any one.


b) Now let me show you why you are wrong...Here are my views on some of your statements...Please feel free to correct if you have not made those statements...

- Spy is a pig and should be shot...

What does your Law says about spy..Is the punishment death penalty??? Lets say yes then do you think he/she has to be proven a spy first in the eye's of Law?? If no then on what basis you are saying that he should have been shot??

The case that you are talking about happened in 70's and its hard to get all th doc's related to the trial, the spy if caught can be sentenced to death by law. Now i am sure that singh was proven guilty of his crime and also he confessed to it. So whats the debate about. What I dont understand and many from your side have shown that if a Pakistani court has sentenced someone for a crime its disputable. If that cant be accepted then i cant accept any punishment handed by an indian court and claim it to be fabricated and biased. But the law don't work that way and there are rules in place. Just like what is happening now in the case of Kasab. No matter how curropt our govs are for some reason the Judiciary keeps showing them the mirror.


If yes(Spy should be hanged as per Law) then was Kashmir Singh prooven beyond doubt about his wrong doings?? If yes then what was the reason for keeping him in Jail for 35 years??? Do you think it is unhuman to lock a person for 35 years??

We have to keep in mind that he kept on pleading his case to diff courts and the final plea was made to the president. And that kept on delaying the sentence. See it was not inhumane at all he got into a job by choice and many do that and they know the repercussion of their actions. And if he had not been making all those plea's he might have been dead, but you and me don't control one birth or death its in Allah's hands.

If no the don't you think it is inhuman to lock a person for 35 years against whom you don't have substantial proofs???

How can you say that there was no proof against him, and now when he accepted his crime would it be fine to say that the indian authorities should hand him back.


- Clown musharaf wanted to be known as some saint full of mercy

He was full of mercy or you seems to have tough stand on Kashmir singh because he is an Indian??... I did ask you last time also is serving 35 years in a Pakistani Jail not enough of a punishment...What else you would achieve by hanging him...you would have done that way back if you had enough proofs....

If a spy was caught in india who was working for Pakistan what would
have been your stance see this is where i lose it with you guys ( hope you don't mind) by the above then many of the convicted spies who are in indian jails should be released. I made a point yesterday that due to kashmirs actions my country suffered something. Some one might have died. Now kasab killed so many people you are angry you should be, then why shouldn't I or my country men be. And musharaf was not full of mercy pick up any Pakistani news paper and you will see how many Pakistanis he sold to US for some measly $. Why do you think that he was trying to get rid of the CJ.

- Pakistani's killed in Indian Jails
I already replied on this part in my previous posts...Here are some indina versions as well

An Indian prisoner reaches home after spending 20 years in Pakistan jail
Indian national dies in Pak jail in 'suspicious circumstances' - dnaindia.com



Now tell me shall i step in your shoes and start asking for killing of the Pak baby who lived because of doctors in my land...

And why would you or me say that, and for some reason that example was not even funny. We are discussing spies and murderers not doctors and babies.

Docs give Pak baby a 'hearty' gift
Pakistani boy's heart beats thanks to Dr Venugopal


P.S : All i want from you is to think rationally...Our hatred for each other have consumed many lives...Though i don't mind showing hatred on an internet forum than in an actual war yet expecting rational thinking from so called educated people on both sides should not be too much to ask for...What say???

I agree with your last point but if you read my above points and analyze with what i have been saying all along it is not diff, yes the tone of voice is and was a bit harsh and i have made my self clear about that. A spy or a terrorist what ever it is you being an indian and me a Pakistani would like our countries to be safe and prosperous. You have your point of views about things and I have mine, I think that a spy if caught shouldn't be released no matter after how many years. As I said earlier as well they do this by choice and not by force, and are well versed about the results of their actions. And the same should happen to a terrorist who is there to kill innocent people. And yes the sane minds should think in a sane way and that should also be the same set of rules for all. It was nice talking to you again and I would like to carry on the discussion with you.

 

[gogbot]

I know that we talked about same issue yesterday however i have couple of questions for you...

a) I went through your series of posts with Sarthak....May be i am biased yet i can feel the frustration and anger in your posts..Lets say for the sake of argument that you are right does that mean you should loose your cool??? This is a discussion forum and people will have different opinion..Don't you think so???

b) Now let me show you why you are wrong...Here are my views on some of your statements...Please feel free to correct if you have not made those statements...

- Spy is a pig and should be shot...

What does your Law says about spy..Is the punishment death penalty??? Lets say yes then do you think he/she has to be proven a spy first in the eye's of Law?? If no then on what basis you are saying that he should have been shot??

If yes(Spy should be hanged as per Law) then was Kashmir Singh prooven beyond doubt about his wrong doings?? If yes then what was the reason for keeping him in Jail for 35 years??? Do you think it is unhuman to lock a person for 35 years??

If no the don't you think it is inhuman to lock a person for 35 years against whom you don't have substantial proofs???


- Clown musharaf wanted to be known as some saint full of mercy

He was full of mercy or you seems to have tough stand on Kashmir singh because he is an Indian??... I did ask you last time also is serving 35 years in a Pakistani Jail not enough of a punishment...What else you would achieve by hanging him...you would have done that way back if you had enough proofs....


- Pakistani's killed in Indian Jails
I already replied on this part in my previous posts...Here are some indina versions as well

An Indian prisoner reaches home after spending 20 years in Pakistan jail
Indian national dies in Pak jail in 'suspicious circumstances' - dnaindia.com


Now tell me shall i step in your shoes and start asking for killing of the Pak baby who lived because of doctors in my land...

Docs give Pak baby a 'hearty' gift
Pakistani boy's heart beats thanks to Dr Venugopal


P.S : All i want from you is to think rationally...Our hatred for each other have consumed many lives...Though i don't mind showing hatred on an internet forum than in an actual war yet expecting rational thinking from so called educated people on both sides should not be too much to ask for...What say???

Now i would like to point out that, since my spat. I have posted an Apology. As well as delete my posts, on the matter.

regardless of weather or not what i was saying was true or not it was taken out of context and i blatantly tossed around generalizations like Faithfulguy.

Now i am pretty sure that my lack of sleep for the last 30 hours, contributed to my outburst.

But i dont believe i ever wanted A blood bath.

I was simply fed up, of hearing the voices in Pakistan. Crying innocence to terrorism, that the ISI and Military establishment clearly condoned up until the TTP turned on them . And with people pointing the finger at external powers for the problems they face today. The people who should be bought to justice go unpunished. If they cant acknowledge the truth even today, what else is there to do.
The Military establishment or the elements with in tried to Use a Shoddy bridge to meet their goals. The Bridge failed and they fell. But instead of admitting their mistake and correcting the problem. They have chosen to rewrite the laws of Gravity so that they can pretend they have not fell.

and to this day Hindu's are demonized , Make a mockery of India's secularism. And do not acknowledge the existence of hundreds of Millions of Non Hindu Indians

(to anyone wants to argue with me about what i said you will find no response from me, as i am simply explaining my self to deckingraj.)

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No worries mate...we all loose our cool...Just one request...Do give benefit of doubt when it comes to India and Pak....

What is truth for me is a blatant lie for a Pakistani mind and vice-versa....Generations have passed on hatred and suspicion for each other and it is very difficult to gulp wrong doings of one's country....

Please take some rest....Hopefully the x-mas holiday will give you much needed sleep....

 

[Aslan]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No worries mate...we all loose our cool...Just one request...Do give benefit of doubt when it comes to India and Pak....

What is truth for me is a blatant lie for a Pakistani mind and vice-versa....Generations have passed on hatred and suspicion for each other and it is very difficult to gulp wrong doings of one's country....

Please take some rest....Hopefully the x-mas holiday will give you much needed sleep....

So where in states do you live.

 

[deckingraj]

The problem that I have had and yes i felt anger because if you read the statements made my Sarthak he is constantly accusing me of statements that I have not made. And when that happens any one gets angry, why should I be explaining something over and over I don't owe that to any one.

You are right...However just a suggestion - Point that out...showing your frustration you will loose the opportunity to make your points..Remember this is a public forum...Its not just you and Sarthak talking ... People like me and many others are also learning in the course..So more the healthy discussion better it is for youngsters and brain-washed fanatics to learn....

The case that you are talking about happened in 70's and its hard to get all th doc's related to the trial, the spy if caught can be sentenced to death by law. Now i am sure that singh was proven guilty of his crime and also he confessed to it. So whats the debate about. What I dont understand and many from your side have shown that if a Pakistani court has sentenced someone for a crime its disputable. If that cant be accepted then i cant accept any punishment handed by an indian court and claim it to be fabricated and biased. But the law don't work that way and there are rules in place. Just like what is happening now in the case of Kasab. No matter how curropt our govs are for some reason the Judiciary keeps showing them the mirror

.


No my friend...No one is claiming that Pakistan courts were/are biased...How can we forget the famous Long-March to ensure the proper functioning of Courts as per LAW and Justice....However you and i would agree that courts make mistakes irrespective of India or Pakistan thats why we have district courts- high courts- supreme courts and finally president clemency...President has the supreme power though he/she is advised to consult home ministry....SO far so good...Now in this specific case it took 35 years for president to grant clemency even though courts have ordered death sentence to them clearly suggests there were some loop holes that could not prove Singh a spy beyond doubts and his sentence was more on circumstantial evidence....You might be shocked but there used to be so many death penalties that were given in India on mere Circumstantial evidence where as if you go by Law a death penalty should be given only in rarest of rare case... I hope i made my point clear to your satisfaction...

We have to keep in mind that he kept on pleading his case to diff courts and the final plea was made to the president. And that kept on delaying the sentence. See it was not inhumane at all he got into a job by choice and many do that and they know the repercussion of their actions. And if he had not been making all those plea's he might have been dead, but you and me don't control one birth or death its in Allah's hands.

buddy did he used any unfair means??....Pakistani law allows him to do that...Do you know there are several clauses which if not satisfied one cannot even apply in Supreme Court if High Court has passed a death penalty...He kept on appealing and his appeals were acknowledged kind of prove that case against him was not strong and pakistani courts were not biased..Rest i have explained above....

How can you say that there was no proof against him, and now when he accepted his crime would it be fine to say that the indian authorities should hand him back.

Well i did not mean that you have no proof against him...What i wanted to say was that you definitely don't have solid proof agaisnt him...As far returning back is concerned understand one thing...As far as your courts are concerned he was a spy(irrespective of him accepting or not)...He is being granted president clemency.....

If a spy was caught in india who was working for Pakistan what would have been your stance see this is where i lose it with you guys ( hope you don't mind) by the above then many of the convicted spies who are in indian jails should be released. I made a point yesterday that due to kashmirs actions my country suffered something. Some one might have died. Now kasab killed so many people you are angry you should be, then why shouldn't I or my country men be.

This is where you loose me...I have said multiple times that 35 years is a punishment even worse than Death Penalty....In other words he paid for his sins(as per pakistani perspective)...As far as spy's are concerned they should be given punishment as per the Law of the country...The same reason we don't kill POW's even though they might have killed many men/women of the opposite side..In other words Rule of Law....

And musharaf was not full of mercy pick up any Pakistani news paper and you will see how many Pakistanis he sold to US for some measly $. Why do you think that he was trying to get rid of the CJ.

Neither did i say he was....However as said in previous post this is one of good things that he did....Remember GOI still do not accept Singh working for them.....With all due respect Singh stature is too small to appease anyone......In other words Mush did everything in his jurisdiction and that's why i am applauding his effort(that doesn't mean i am supporting his other actions some of which you pointed out)

 

[Solomon2]

It's so sad. Kasab's defense is "Someone else did it!" Not only is such a defense less effective than pleading insanity, it provides yet another unwelcome balm to the minds of millions of Muslims worldwide who don't want to face that the fact that this evil plot was nursed within the bosom of Islam.

 

[fhassan]

face that the fact that this evil plot was nursed within the bosom of Islam.

prove it....
Begin by telling me what Islam actually means.

If you plan to say that It's what Muslims do - then know that it was less than 0.0000008% of the Muslim population that apparently did it.

You know Solomon2, not even Indians say that the Mumbai attack is in any way shape or form indicative of what Islam teaches; to this date I have not heard a single Indian blame Islam.

So, please prove it. Ill help you a little with an appropriate example.

- I want to prove that charity is nursed within the bosom of Islam:

Qur'an:

[2:83] We made a covenant with the Children of Israel: "You shall not worship except GOD. You shall honor your parents and regard the relatives, the orphans, and the poor. You shall treat the people amicably. You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat)." But you turned away, except a few of you, and you became averse.

[2:177] Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.

[2:267] O you who believe, you shall give to charity from the good things you earn, and from what we have produced for you from the earth. Do not pick out the bad therein to give away, when you yourselves do not accept it unless your eyes are closed. You should know that Allah is Rich, Praiseworthy.

Sunnah of the prophet, peace and blessings be upon him:

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Blessed is the wealth of a Muslim from which he gives to the poor, to orphans and to needy travelers." - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Hadith 544

The Prophet also said: "Charity given to a relative serves a double purpose, being both charity and a connecting link." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 606

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Give charity without delay, for it stands in the way of calamity." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 589

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "If anyone gives in charity something equal to a date from his honestly earned money--for nothing ascends to God except good--then God will take it in His Right (Hand) and bring it up for its owner as anyone of you brings up a baby horse, until it becomes like a mountain...Nothing ascends to God except good." - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Number 525B

Muslims acting upon this advice:


- Every Muslim I know pays zakah, that is 2.5% of their income annually going to charity. Note, that this is a minimum requirement and we can give more if we wish (there are certain requirements for zakah, for example you have to be of sane mind, and financially able)

So, there you go, I have shown how Charity is a fundamental teaching of Islam, and for the most part acted upon by Muslims - not just one or two, but Millions who are following precisely what Islam has taught.

I want you to do the same with the Mumbai attacks.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

It's so sad. Kasab's defense is "Someone else did it!" Not only is such a defense less effective than pleading insanity, it provides yet another unwelcome balm to the minds of millions of Muslims worldwide who don't want to face that the fact that this evil plot was nursed within the bosom of Islam.

weren't the gunmen high on methamphetamines, and carrying booze on their character?

who said anything about this being an "Islamist" related terrorist attack, other than the fact that it was "indian Deccan Mujahideen" who called hindustany agencies and were claiming responsibility

 

[ajpirzada]

interestin to see so much of talk on this topic. y not wait for court's verdict

 

[Hulk]

weren't the gunmen high on methamphetamines, and carrying booze on their character?

who said anything about this being an "Islamist" related terrorist attack, other than the fact that it was "indian Deccan Mujahideen" who called hindustany agencies and were claiming responsibility

Do you want to say that since he was high he cannot be Muslim, but Zardari, Mush and others are?

Indian Deccan Muzahideen was busted long before this happened.

 

[Hulk]

interestin to see so much of talk on this topic. y not wait for court's verdict

There will be no surprise coming out of court verdict, even after that few Pakistani's will contiune to believe 26/11 was done from inside.

 

[Aslan]

@Sarthak
.
Why am I a Hypocrite I am not defending any one neither am I derailing any thing you are the one who on one hand is defending one criminal and then want other one dead.
You are paranoid is it my fault that you are seeing random red logo over your post, and please don't waste your time whit me. Neither am I a wanna be nor am trying to be a wanna be intellectual. I will debate with you with in my limits and not cross the line, but will not have double standards like you in dealing with humans. One set of law for all let it be someone from my country or other.