Karzai blasts US troops for gruesome Afghan deaths

[notorious_eagle]

Morlock has been sentenced to 24 years in prison. He may be eligible for parole in 7 years. He is the first of five soldiers charged with crimes in this case to be convicted-

Jeremy Morlock Murder Trial-Huffington Post March 23, 2011

These men were renegades. There's no evidence of complicity by their higher command. I'm unsure that's the case elsewhere. Plenty of war crimes committed by soldiers from plenty of armies out there. No army is immune from such. Question is how these matters are handled once they surface. Some militaries handle their business better than others.

Indeed, we should look at the institution as a whole instead of looking at the bad apples. The US Army made the right call by investigating these matters and taking the appropriate measures to punish these bast****. These men will have enough time now on their hands to think about their horrendous crimes.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Old man..... dnt rant... Swat is clear..... N yeah we r proud of our army.....n proud to be a Pakistani.

Truth hurts..... so instead of ranting........ learn to accept it.

Sucks to be an american..... when justifyin ur wrong doings be it the gang rapes in iraq, or killings of innocents.

LOL @ eligible for parole in 7 years.... pathetic......... n yeah...... dnt go off topic.

P.S=My father is a brig general in the army.

Dont be proud of army operations, these were tragic events in which countless civilians have also lost their lives and social structure is fractured in operated areas.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

"P.S=My father is a brig general in the army."


Off-topic? I think not. Morlock was sentenced to 24 years. Your army still awaits indictments for their crimes.

That'll never happen.

The PA has a robust accountability system, i prety much agree that No Army is imune to such incidents, But the PA has prety much punished those who were righteously guilty for having misconduct with POW.
Personally been a witness of an inquiry of an Army jawan being Murdered, The whole Unit including the Commanding Officer was subjected to sever Interrogations without any mercy.

On Personal note , You too have served in the Army, i guess every person in the Army be it any Army, who is wearing a uniform and has a gun thinks that he can be a baddest MotherFkr in just Perfect circumstances, such attitude is very much amplified on Battle Field or in case of Deployed Troops where many are leveraged from sever punishment, Thats a built in feature inside any human being Recruited in the Army...

 

[Solomon2]

The PA has a robust accountability system

How does that work? It is my impression that the Army is only accountable to the Army, that Inspector Generals are self-selected, and that ultimately in any contest between military and civilian the military leadership wins - as Musharraf demonstrated. So how, exactly, is the PA accountable?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

How does that work? It is my impression that the Army is only accountable to the Army, that Inspector Generals are self-selected, and that ultimately in any contest between military and civilian the military leadership wins - as Musharraf demonstrated. So how, exactly, is the PA accountable?

Dudes , In Army there are no ifs and Buts, Your Senior is Always right, There is no "NO SIR" thing, only "SIR YES SIR". Every Army is designed in a way that You got to Worship your Senior Officers, And No civilian on this Earth can understand this no matter what....!!!!

Having Said that , The Serious crimes never get hidden under the table , and in PA when an inquiry is lodged , The inquiry baord is selected from out of the way and is Ratified by the Central command (GHQ).Please Dont mix Power Hunger with Blunt voilation of Laws. I do agree that corruption exists, But no one on this planet is pure or immune to that.However There are protocols in PA which facilitate that there effect on overall functioning of the org is limited or reduced to null.
Musharraf or Anybody, Individuals dont matter, the moment anybody becomes a liability, He is chopped , Same happened with The Rolling Stone Genral
S2 said it right ,Quit throwing bricks. Your glass house is immensely fragile.

 

[Solomon2]

Every Army is designed in a way that You got to Worship your Senior Officers, And No civilian on this Earth can understand this no matter what....!!!!

I think you only know, at best, how one Army works. Here is the U.S. military's oath:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

As you can see, our soldiers swear to uphold the Constitution (and by extension the laws of the U.S.) BEFORE they swear obedience to their officers. Now you know why U.S. soldiers have a record of reporting wrongdoing by their own compared to the P.A. An oath of pure obedience to officers above is for suckers who are willing to be instruments of colonialism or empire.

Serious crimes never get hidden under the table , and in PA when an inquiry is lodged , The inquiry baord is selected from out of the way and is Ratified by the Central command (GHQ).

Which means criminal prosecutions are reduced to political instruments, as in the armies of military juntas. A conniving and dishonorable officer could easily go all the way to the top.

I do agree that corruption exists, But no one on this planet is pure or immune to that...Your glass house is immensely fragile.

Just because the P.A. has a history of acting badly does NOT mean others are equally guilty. I'm sorry, but the mote in my eye is as nothing compared to the plank in yours.

 

[Rafi]

I think you only know, at best, how one Army works. Here is the U.S. military's oath:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

As you can see, our soldiers swear to uphold the Constitution (and by extension the laws of the U.S.) BEFORE they swear obedience to their officers. Now you know why U.S. soldiers have a record of reporting wrongdoing by their own compared to the P.A. An oath of pure obedience to officers above is for suckers who are willing to be instruments of colonialism or empire.

Which means criminal prosecutions are reduced to political instruments, as in the armies of military juntas. A conniving and dishonorable officer could easily go all the way to the top.

Just because the P.A. has a history of acting badly does NOT mean others are equally guilty. I'm sorry, but the mote in my eye is as nothing compared to the plank in yours.

Get off your fu^&%ing high horse, tell your crap to someone who cares, people like you - are the exact reason that America is so disliked in the world.

 

[Rafi]

My Lai Massacre

Court martial
On November 17, 1970, the United States Army charged 14 officers, including Major General Samuel W. Koster, the Americal Division's commanding officer, with suppressing information related to the incident. Most of those charges were later dropped. Brigade commander Henderson was the only officer who stood trial on charges relating to the cover-up; he was acquitted on December 17, 1971.[29]
In a four-month-long trial, despite claims that he was following orders from his commanding officer, Captain Medina, he was convicted, on March 29, 1971, of premeditated murder for ordering the shootings. He was initially sentenced to life in prison. Two days later, however, President Nixon made the controversial decision to have Calley released from prison, pending appeal of his sentence. Calley's sentence was later adjusted, so that he would eventually serve four and one-half months in a military prison at Fort Benning.[30]
In a separate trial, Captain Medina denied giving the orders that led to the massacre, and was acquitted of all charges, effectively negating the prosecution's theory of "command responsibility", now referred to as the "Medina standard". Several months after his acquittal, however, Medina admitted that he had suppressed evidence and had lied to Colonel Henderson about the number of civilian deaths.[31]
Most of the enlisted men who were involved in the events at My Lai had already left military service, and were thus legally exempt from prosecution. In the end, of the 26 men initially charged, Calley's was the only conviction.
Some have argued that the outcome of the My Lai courts-martial was a reversal of the laws of war that were set forth in the Nuremberg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.[32] Secretary of the Army Howard Callaway was quoted in the New York Times as stating that Calley's sentence was reduced because Calley honestly believed that what he did was a part of his orders—a rationale that stands in direct contradiction of the standards set at Nuremberg and Tokyo, where German and Japanese soldiers were executed for similar acts.

Yankees have no moral right to lecture anyone.

 

[Rafi]

The My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai [mǐˀ lɐːj]; English pronunciation: /ˌmiːˈlaɪ/ ( listen), also /ˌmiːˈleɪ, ˌmaɪˈlaɪ/,[1] Vietnamese: [mǐˀlaːj]) was the mass murder of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, conducted by a unit of the United States Army. All of the victims were civilians and most were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many of the victims were raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated

---------- Post added at 07:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 AM ----------

The massacre took place in the hamlets of Mỹ Lai and My Khe of Sơn Mỹ village during the Vietnam War.[3][4] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted of killing 22 villagers. Originally given a life sentence, he served three and a half years under house arrest.

 

[Rafi]

Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report, Powell wrote, "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American[22] soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Powell's handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as "whitewashing" the atrocities of My Lai.[23] In May 2004, Powell, then United States Secretary of State, told CNN's Larry King, "I mean, I was in a unit that was responsible for My Lai. I got there after My Lai happened. So, in war, these sorts of horrible things happen every now and again, but they are still to be deplored."[24]

 

[Solomon2]

Get off your fu^&%ing high horse, tell your crap to someone who cares -

Because you don't care, yes. Or are you just embarrassed? No need to be embarrassed about admitting that Pakistan isn't nearly as moral or ethical as the Western states so many Pakistanis desire to revile. You are not responsible for the situation of your country before you were even born. On the other hand, every human being faces moral choices every day. That's what you can take pride in or be embarrassed about.

, people like you - are the exact reason that America is so disliked in the world.

Hey, what can I do? I'm in a country where it's all done right already. Someday some Pakistanis may do the brave and right thing and make your country a much better place. They will gain great merit by doing so. Me? There's no way for me to earn such honor. So why envy and dislike me? Can't you see that it is I who envy you?

 

[Rafi]

Because you don't care, yes. Or are you just embarrassed? No need to be embarrassed about admitting that Pakistan isn't nearly as moral or ethical as the Western states so many Pakistanis desire to revile. You are not responsible for the situation of your country before you were even born. On the other hand, every human being faces moral choices every day. That's what you can take pride in or be embarrassed about.

Hey, what can I do? I'm in a country where it's all done right already. Someday some Pakistanis may do the brave and right thing and make your country a much better place. They will gain great merit by doing so. Me? There's no way for me to earn such honor. So why envy and dislike me? Can't you see that it is I who envy you?

We are an old civilization - but a very young country, we have been around for 60 odd years, and are trying to find our way in the world, the last thing we need is patronizing treatment from people who have had a couple of century's to establish institution's and iron out their system's of governance.

 

[Rafi]

In many way's there is much to admire about the US, but even you have problem's, the PA are not angels - they have done reprehensible things. but they are us, our sons and our brothers. We are a democracy now, it will take time for the military and civilians to sort out their rights and responsibilities, and the supremacy of democratic civilian leader's, which I believe in - by the way - even though have served, and come from a military family, that have been soldiers for generation's.

We will not have westerners patronize us, we know our short comings and many good people are trying to improve our lot.

 

[Solomon2]

...the PA are not angels - they have done reprehensible things. but they are us, our sons and our brothers.

Why should Pakistanis accept such excuses? You know that ultimately the East Pakistanis did not.

We are a democracy now, it will take time for the military and civilians to sort out their rights and responsibilities -

I do not accept that Pakistan is really a democracy. The "deep state" that is unaccountable to the people holds ultimate power over the military and justice system, elections are heavily corrupted by fraud and "elected" officials are deeply corrupt.

From afar that looks more like a combination of the worst elements of 17th and 18th-century England. For us Americans the solution was to start over with a new form of government. For the Brits it took nearly two centuries of agitation to finally make Britain a representative democracy.

...the last thing we need is patronizing treatment from people who have had a couple of century's to establish institution's and iron out their system's of governance.

This is part of Pakistan's internal struggle. Pakistanis come to us Americans and Zionists, unprompted, to beg for this sort of thing. That's why I've stuck around here so long.

You don't even need to take my word for it. Just look at the Wikileaks stuff that shows high-ranking Pakistanis talking over their domestic troubles with American officials. Not because they kow-tow to Americans, but because they trust Americans more than they trust each other.

I have mixed feelings about this. For us to respond to the call seems flattering and high-minded, but the undertone of such requests is much like that of a peasant seeking a master, who they then may blame for anything that goes wrong, including their own actions. It's a problem with the Pakistani mind-set. Even Angelica Jolie noted it when she visited Pakistan after the floods, shocked that her modest relief donation exceeded that of Pakistan's billionaire president and that the elite which hosted her had little interest in flood relief themselves, just her celebrity - taking care of poor and dispossessed Pakistanis was the job of America and the U.S.-funded Pakistani Army.

it will take time for the military and civilians to sort out their rights and responsibilities -

That is a myth. It doesn't take time to do these things, it takes people willing to step forward and strive together and against each other for democratic leadership.

we know our short comings and many good people are trying to improve our lot.

How about you? What are you doing?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I think you only know, at best, how one Army works. Here is the U.S. military's oath:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

As you can see, our soldiers swear to uphold the Constitution (and by extension the laws of the U.S.) BEFORE they swear obedience to their officers. Now you know why U.S. soldiers have a record of reporting wrongdoing by their own compared to the P.A. An oath of pure obedience to officers above is for suckers who are willing to be instruments of colonialism or empire.

Which means criminal prosecutions are reduced to political instruments, as in the armies of military juntas. A conniving and dishonorable officer could easily go all the way to the top.

Just because the P.A. has a history of acting badly does NOT mean others are equally guilty. I'm sorry, but the mote in my eye is as nothing compared to the plank in yours.

Again you are mixing Power Struggle with Internal functioning of an Organization. We all are pretty much aware how perfectly things get covered up Be it the PA or be it the US Army, be careful to go down that path.
The PA has been brought up in that situation where circumstances paved way for its capturing of the power , much of that would never have happened without the consent of foreign players headed by Uncle Sam.We were a never a free country. From Day 1 Pakistan has been under a neocolonialism rule. Right from the Era of Liaqat Ali Khan to Zardari , every head of state has been in bed with the US, much of them met a sadistic demise....!!! Every Policy of Pakistan is dictated by the US. And for some obvious reasons its been a State Policy of the US that some how institutions in this country are provoked to be in a competition of Power with each other, Be it the Judiciary, Be it the Army, Be it the Politicians ,The US has the top lot of every group in its pocket.Owing to such awesome geo starategik location of this country, Its not in the interest of west to let this reagion forge with complete stability and harmony.The stakes are so high , that no one in the West can imagine a Pakistan Strong enough to rise up to its Interests.Our whole Economy has been jeopardized through the unfavorable condition of the World Bank, IMF and interest loaded US AID. So on which grounds you are comparing Pakistan with US, US is completely independent Nation, Even though it has a debt , Still theres no force on earth to force it to its will.