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Karzai admits to sheltering Baloch Terrorists

is it ok to start treads without source? I mean the tread title says that India is involved in balochistan, but no links to any sources confirming it, shouldnt the admins then delete this tread?

The headline refers to the Pakistani allegation of India and Afghanistan being involved in supporting terrorists in Baluchistan. I believe Afghanistan and Karzai's role has been proven conclusively, in terms of offering sanctuary to terrorist elements. India's role is not mentioned specifically so far in these cables, though Pakistan has accused Indian officials of meeting with Baluch terrorists/insurgents in Afghanistan.
 
The headline refers to the Pakistani allegation of India and Afghanistan being involved in supporting terrorists in Baluchistan. I believe Afghanistan and Karzai's role has been proven conclusively, in terms of offering sanctuary to terrorist elements. India's role is not mentioned specifically so far in these cables, though Pakistan has accused Indian officials of meeting with Baluch terrorists/insurgents in Afghanistan.

wikileaks so far has not affected india.may be future leaks can do something.
 
Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, has been sheltering a Pakistani rebel for several years, much to the annoyance of Pakistan's generals, US embassy cables show.

Brahamdagh Bugti, a leader of the nationalist insurgency in Balochistan province, emerges as a pawn in often stormy relations between Kabul and Islamabad that are spiced with intrigue and failed American efforts to broker a solution.

A stream of Pakistani demands for Bugti's return are stonewalled by Karzai; Bugti is accused of kidnapping a senior UN official; and the Islamabad CIA station chief is roped into an initiative to move Bugti to Ireland that turns out to be based on a false promise.

Bugti's case was a "neuralgic" one for Pakistani generals, Americans believed. The Bugtis are at the forefront of a rebellion that seeks greater economic and political autonomy for Balochistan, Pakistan's largest but least developed province.

The 20-something rebel fled Pakistan in 2006 after surviving a military assault that killed his grandfather, Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti. Since then Pakistani generals have frequently accused Kabul of secretly sheltering the young rebel.

In 2007, General Pervez Musharraf said Bugti was "enjoying freedom of movement to commute between Kabul and Kandahar, raising money and planning operations against Pakistani security forces".

When the US assistant secretary of state, Richard Boucher, said Karzai had promised that nobody would be allowed to use Afghan territory to attack Pakistan, Musharraf replied: "That's bullshit."

The controversy touches on one of the Pakistani military's core fears: that India could use Afghan-based proxy forces to foment upheaval in Pakistan.

In 2007 Musharraf said he had "ample proof" of Indian and Afghan support for Bugti; the prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, said Bugti had travelled to Delhi on a fake Afghan passport. Note the indian connection , Bugti would not get travel documents wihtout Karzai's knowledge and also india's knoweldge to where he was heading

American analysis suggests the fear of Indian meddling helps explain Pakistan's support for militant proxies such as the Afghan Taliban; a view supported by a veiled threat Musharraf issued through a US diplomat. "If India wants to continue, let's see what our options will be," he reportedly said.

Karzai, meanwhile, has refused to bend to Pakistani demands to surrender Bugti, accusing Islamabad of using the issue to deflect attention from its support of the Taliban. "Fomenting uprising does not make one a terrorist," he said in one meeting before asking US officials to stop taking notes because the matter was "too sensitive".

In public, Afghan officials have consistently denied sheltering Bugti, but in a meeting with a senior UN official in February 2009, Karzai "finally admitted that Brahamdagh Bugti was in Kabul", the cables recorded.

The admission followed the kidnapping of a senior American UN official, John Solecki, in Balochistan. After Solecki was snatched from Quetta, Balochistan's capital, in early February, Pakistan's army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, told the US he had phone intercepts that proved Bugti had orchestrated the kidnapping.

If we can reliably intercept Bugti's calls on kidnapping of the American then we surely must have other intercepts also regarding bugti getting support from india

On 15 February, the US asked the UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, to call Karzai , urging him to speak with Bugti and have Solecki released. Karzai agreed, but said he doubted Bugti was involved. US officials later complained that Karzai was blocking American contact with the rebel.

Solecki was released on 4 April in Balochistan. Speaking to the Guardian by phone later that year, Bugti denied any role in the kidnapping, but admitted he was leading the fight against Pakistan's army.

"We want ownership of our own resources, our land, our coastal belt – nothing else," he said. "We want to solve this problem politically; nobody wants to use the gun. But because of what is happening the armed struggle is necessary." Bugti declined to say where he was speaking from.

Bugti supporters say he is under tight Pakistani surveillance in Kabul and so, fearing for his life, they tried to move him to safer exile last December, the cables showed.

In Islamabad, one of Bugti's uncles told US and UN officials that the "deputy prime minister" of Ireland had unofficially agreed to grant Bugti asylum. This information triggered a meeting between a senior UN official and the US ambassador.

Subsequently the CIA station chief met with the head of Pakistan's intelligence service (ISI), General Shuja Pasha, to discuss the matter. But Pasha blocked the initiative, saying Bugti should be forced to "return to Pakistan to stand trial for his crimes", and the US and UN dropped the idea.

"While getting Bugti out of Afghanistan is still a good idea, we do not believe UNHCR should be involved," the cable noted, referring to the UN refugee agency.

However, the entire scheme may have been based on nothing. The uncle told the Guardian he had never claimed to have secured asylum for his nephew in Ireland. "This is news to me," he said. "I have no knowledge or information about this."

The substantial, if publicly underplayed, US strategic interest in Balochistan is reflected in the number of cables on the province. Balochistan contains vast and largely untapped mineral resources, Taliban training camps, and is a major route for US military supplies being trucked into Afghanistan, second only to the Khyber Pass. Balochistan is also home to a secretive desert airstrip used by the CIA to launch drone attacks on al-Qaida and Taliban targets in the tribal belt.

By removing Bugti from Afghanistan US officials believe they could remove an "irritant" in Pakistan-Afghanistan relations. They also fear he could be traded against other militants of greater interest.

Last February, after the arrest of the senior Taliban leader Mullah Barader in Karachi, US diplomats said to "watch out for consideration of some type of exchange of Barader with Bugti".

But Barader remains in Pakistani custody and Bugti may no longer be in Afghanistan. A senior western official in Islamabad said the rebel had applied for asylum in France, which was refused, and in Norway, where the application was pending. A senior UN official said Bugti was sheltering in the United Arab Emirates; a human rights official said he sometimes travels to Geneva. Also, the diplomats said, Pakistan's military chiefs – Kayani and Pasha – would be reluctant to lose a "huge potential propaganda pawn in Barader".

The cable said that while Bugti may be a core issue at some political level, the "truths Barader could tell about ISI not to mention a host of other Pakistani notables, likely outweigh any potential wins in bringing Bugti to Pakistani justice".

The allegations appear to be accurate. In a January 2007 meeting with assistant secretary of state Richard Boucher, Karzai said that more than 200 Bugtis had fled Pakistan into Afghanistan. He had advised them to seek asylum with the UN but many were frightened and had gone into hiding.


WikiLeaks cables reveal Afghan-Pakistani row over fugitive rebel | World news | The Guardian
So much for the US not being aware of terrorists attacking Pakistan sheltering on Afghan soil and receiving open sanctuary from the Afghans.

Not only that, the US appears more interested in finding Bugti sanctuary in some other country, instead of returning a terrorist leader to Pakistan to stand trial.

And then they rant about Osama Bin Laden ....

F'n hypocrites.
 
The wikileaks which have substantial info on and pertaining to India are just coming out.

Lets see what we have in store for us.
 
LONDON: The Pakistani government has "solid evidence" of India's involvement in creating unrest in Balochistan province, former president Pervez Musharraf has said.

India and Afghanistan were involved in creating unrest in Balochistan, and "solid evidence of their involvement" has been shared with everyone, including Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Musharraf said in an interview in London to Pakistan's Express 24/7 television channel.

He said the Aug 26, 2006 military operation against 79-year-old tribal leader Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti in Balochistan was justified as he had been creating trouble in the province.

"There is a person who is firing 500 rockets on Sui. There is a person who has occupied the hill features and is firing rockets and weapons on the Frontier Corps. They are blowing up the gas pipeline, the electric pylon, the railway line," he said.

He said Bugti's grandson, Bramdagh Bugti, is received by agents from Indian intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) whenever he visits India.

"I know that they finance him, they give him weapons to create trouble and stab us in the back in Balochistan."

Speaking about the ongoing probe into the murder of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, he said the three people named by her in her letter before she was assassinated were not behind the killing.

"I knew about Pervaiz Elahi and Ejaz Shah, they were very responsible people and I know they wouldn't be planning to kill her, I mean, it would be utterly stupid of them to do that. Hamid Gul is a man who always uses his ex-intelligence connections a lot and I know that he hated her. But I don't know whether he was planning an assassination," Musharraf said.
India responsible for unrest in Balochistan: Musharraf - The Economic Times

Dont know about Bugti but Musharraf was sure that RAW was involved in Baloch unrest. .
 
The wikileaks which have substantial info on and pertaining to India are just coming out.

Lets see what we have in store for us.

Till there is some info on Indian involvement (in wikileaks) ,it would be appreciated if threads are not titled on the basis of lies and false info. just to satisfy some people's frustration.
 
Till there is some info on Indian involvement (in wikileaks) ,it would be appreciated if threads are not titled on the basis of lies and false info. just to satisfy some people's frustration.

The cable posted by pakdefender is the one in question.
 
Just for the record, If India is indeed in Pakistan's territory I as an Indian citizen want GOI to get the hell out.
Pakistani people are suffering needlessly already, we should be helping them prosper for the sake of our poor.
 
their is only a single line regarding India in the article in which a u.S interlocutor asked karzai to provide assurance to Pakistan that India is not involved

and I think that was enough for Pakistani's

One member defending the article pretending that they dont need wikileaks as a proof but the title reads Indian involvement

Another one saying that they got some evidence of Bugti travelling to Delhi with a fake visa,but he had not provided the name,it is another matter that the event is out of context of the mentioned wiki articles,its what Pakistani official's occasionally brag

But they still claim skeletons are tumbling out of cupboard

So thats why I am not at all surprised with the twisted thread title that India is involved.
 
Karzai traveling to India by fake passport is all you got to prove Indian involvement in Baluchistan?

Remember that everyone strongly denied that Afghanistan was sheltering Baluch terrorists, and that the US would 'never allow such a thing'.

Now we find out, in Karzai's own words, that Afghanistan was indeed sheltering Baluch terrorists and the US was not only aware but trying to relocate Bugti to a 'safe sanctuary'. I am certainly far more inclined to believe the Pakistani claims about Indian involvement now (and those allegations are pretty detailed and from various sources in Pakistan), though admittedly the cables released so far do not address the issue in any great detail.

But only a fraction of the total cables have been released, so stop reiterating the same thing please, and lets wait for the whole thing to play out.
 
Karzai/Afghanistan is certainly involved - he essentially refused to deport Brahamdegh Bugti or any of his associated insurgents/terrorists to Pakistan - which means he is giving known terrorists/insurgents involved in Pakistan sanctuary in Afghanistan, and the US is completely aware of it.

There is another cable involving an exchange between a US official and Zardari where this comes up as well, and how the refusal of Karzai to deport these insurgents was a major reason for tensions between Musharraf and Karzai.

No doubt this attitude of the Afghan government has contributed to the belief in the Pakistani military and strategic community that the Afghans are being duplicitous and cannot be trusted, and hence the desire for Pakistan to have an Afghan government that is friendly to Pakistan.

Also keep in mind that Afghanistan has provided sanctuary to terrorists/insurgents, from Baluchistan and some Tribal areas, in the past, going back to the early years of Pakistan's independence. The Afghan government in fact tried to foment an insurgency in the Tribal belt that failed, and under Soviet influence was responsible for carrying out terrorist attacks (bombings and assassinations) in Pakistani cities.

These cables justify Pakistan's concerns over Afghanistan and its involvement in providing sanctuary to terrorists attacking Pakistan.

How is this any different from Pakistan sheltering Afghan Taliban as well as supporting the same materially?
This can also be equated to the refusal of the Pakistani Govt and Army from attacking the AT or purging them from Pakistani lands....
Wasnt the above the content of the previous WikiLeaks?

It is in Pakistan's interest not to attack AT and its in Afg interest to keep Bugti and BLA issue burning....
I dont see how Pakistan's stand in this situation is better than say Afg
 
Just for the record, If India is indeed in Pakistan's territory I as an Indian citizen want GOI to get the hell out.
Pakistani people are suffering needlessly already, we should be helping them prosper for the sake of our poor.

On the condition there is a reciprocal gesture from the other side from 'you-know-where'.

Intelligence agencies round the world arent known exactly for their morals. :D
 
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