Kargil: A Debacle or A Lost Opportunity?

[ice_man]

Well maybe Pakistan shouldn't be a crying wolf. Siachen was a sort of DMZ. None of the nations had outposts or any military set up there which wasnt the case with Kargil. I hope its not that hard for you to understand . Pakistan voilated the LOC in Kargil while in Siachen there was any.Also India was on peace table with Pakistan and Kashmir was definitely a issue ( which wasnt the case when Siachen occured). This also lends weight to the fact that Pakistan back stabbed India.

As far as Kargil being a debacle or a lost oppurtunity is concerned then the material and non material losses stand a testimony to a judgement which tilts in favour of it being a debacle.Pakistan lost a large number of troops and a lot in its international standing. Since Kargil things havent been the same for PA and Pakistan in general who is now facing an internal war. However its pleasing to see that Pakistan is coping well with terrorists ( thank goodness there hasnt been any major terrorist attack in past month). Hope Pakistan can recover well and be on a speedy road to recovery but first and foremost she needs to get rid of fundamentalist elements of the society,they are definitely TNT.

Also it wasnt a good experience for IA as well , though an eye opening one. The then PM had a lot of guts to retailiate and for that he needs to be admired.

wooohooo!!!

firstly LOC means LINE OF CONTROL! india has been arguing the case to make it an INTERNATIONAL BORDER!!! so us walking into kargil or you walking into SIACHEN are both in theory correct!! because whoever holds onto their ground it is theirs!

as for back stabbing!.....hmmmm where do you want me to start! lets go back to 1971 when india entered PAKISTAN's CIVIL WAR!

or back to partition when it entered jungadh or when it entered hyderabad! (notice pakistanis entering kashmir happened AFTER these events)!!


as for us losing face & image....if you go by just opinon which you are ofcourse THINGS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER FOR PAKISTAN ARMY!!! we got the sanctions removed & US military hardware started pouring in!! so so much for NDTV reports of pakistan army lost face & standing!

as for internal war well we are FIGHTING FOR THE SAFEGUARING of the WORLD! OF OUR WAY OF LIFE!!

so YOU be GRATEFUL!!! because after all the talibans were MADE by the US trained by the US! today when no one can put the serpant back in the cage pakistan is the one stepping up and doing it for the WORLD!!!


good day boy stop watching indian tv & watch international sources!

 

[DeathGod]

1. good day boy stop watching indian tv & watch international sources!

2. firstly LOC means LINE OF CONTROL! india has been arguing the case to make it an INTERNATIONAL BORDER!!! so us walking into kargil or you walking into SIACHEN are both in theory correct!! because whoever holds onto their ground it is theirs!

3. as for back stabbing!.....hmmmm where do you want me to start! lets go back to 1971 when india entered PAKISTAN's CIVIL WAR!

or back to partition when it entered jungadh or when it entered hyderabad! (notice pakistanis entering kashmir happened AFTER these events)!!


4. as for us losing face & image....if you go by just opinon which you are ofcourse THINGS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER FOR PAKISTAN ARMY!!! we got the sanctions removed & US military hardware started pouring in!! so so much for NDTV reports of pakistan army lost face & standing!

5. as for internal war well we are FIGHTING FOR THE SAFEGUARING of the WORLD! OF OUR WAY OF LIFE!!
so YOU be GRATEFUL!!! because after all the

6.talibans were MADE by the US trained by the US! today when no one can put the serpant back in the cage pakistan is the one stepping up and doing it for the WORLD!!!

1. I have two points to make here:
a. How on this earth do you think that I am using Indian TV channels as my sources? FYI I dont have a TV to watch all those.
b. Indian media is any case is more mature and neutral as compared to Pakistan barring a few news channel.

2. Yes it is LOC and should be respected. Ever heard a story of India voilating the LOC during Kargil conflict? There are rules and they need to be followed. Dont follow them and dig your own graves ala Kargil.

3. Live in the present will be my only appeal. Btw Pakistan attacked India so many times . If India would have had the same revenge mentality as you are showing then India would have been planning to attack Pakistan.On the contrary India has been bled so many times by terrorists which have been supported by your state but still maintained its composure.

4. Provide me a timeline as to when the bans started lifting. IMO they were after 9/11 and not after Kargil. And that Pakistan lost a lot of face in International circles is beyond doubt. U.S critisized Pakistan for doing what you did in Kargil when India was talking about peace.

5. No sir , dont ever think that you are doing world any favors. Pakistan would have died a slow death if you wouldn't have controlled these elements in your society. Saving the world is to some extent what U.S does by sending its troops half way across globe . You guys are merely protecting whats yours.

6. I would have liked S-2 to explain it to you but it wasnt U.S but Pakistan that gave rise to Taliban to acheive so called strategic depth in Afghanistan.

Btw this post is offtopic and so was yours. So lets stick to the topic and if you have anything to talk about Kargil being a debacle or lost oppurtunity then say so.

 

[A.R.]

wooohooo!!!

firstly LOC means LINE OF CONTROL! india has been arguing the case to make it an INTERNATIONAL BORDER!!! so us walking into kargil or you walking into SIACHEN are both in theory correct!! because whoever holds onto their ground it is theirs!

as for back stabbing!.....hmmmm where do you want me to start! lets go back to 1971 when india entered PAKISTAN's CIVIL WAR!

or back to partition when it entered jungadh or when it entered hyderabad! (notice pakistanis entering kashmir happened AFTER these events)!!


as for us losing face & image....if you go by just opinon which you are ofcourse THINGS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER FOR PAKISTAN ARMY!!! we got the sanctions removed & US military hardware started pouring in!! so so much for NDTV reports of pakistan army lost face & standing!

as for internal war well we are FIGHTING FOR THE SAFEGUARING of the WORLD! OF OUR WAY OF LIFE!!

so YOU be GRATEFUL!!! because after all the talibans were MADE by the US trained by the US! today when no one can put the serpant back in the cage pakistan is the one stepping up and doing it for the WORLD!!!


good day boy stop watching indian tv & watch international sources!

India never initiated war against Pakistan... It was the stupidity of pakistani leaders that in despite of on going civil war they dared to attack India. consider following passage from wikipedia...

On the evening of 3 December Sunday, at about 5:40 PM,[19] the Pakistani air force launched a pre-emptive strike on eleven airfields in north-western India, including Agra which was 300 miles (480 km) from the border. During this attack the Taj Mahal was camouflaged with a forest of twigs and leaves and draped with burlap because its marble glowed like a white beacon in the moonlight.[20]

This preemptive strike known as Operation Chengiz Khan, was inspired by the success of Israeli Operation Focus in the Arab-Israeli Six Day War. But, unlike the Israeli attack on Arab airbases in 1967 which involved a large number of Israeli planes, Pakistan flew no more than 50 planes to India and failed inflict the intended damage.[21] As a result, Indian runways were cratered and rendered non-functional for several hours after the attack.[22]

In an address to the nation on radio that same evening, Prime Minister Gandhi held the air strikes as a declaration of war against India[23][24] and the Indian Air Force responded with initial air strikes that very night that were expanded to massive retaliatory airstrikes the next morning.[25]

Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ice_man]

1. I have two points to make here:
a. How on this earth do you think that I am using Indian TV channels as my sources? FYI I dont have a TV to watch all those.
b. Indian media is any case is more mature and neutral as compared to Pakistan barring a few news channel.

2. Yes it is LOC and should be respected. Ever heard a story of India voilating the LOC during Kargil conflict? There are rules and they need to be followed. Dont follow them and dig your own graves ala Kargil.

3. Live in the present will be my only appeal. Btw Pakistan attacked India so many times . If India would have had the same revenge mentality as you are showing then India would have been planning to attack Pakistan.On the contrary India has been bled so many times by terrorists which have been supported by your state but still maintained its composure.

4. Provide me a timeline as to when the bans started lifting. IMO they were after 9/11 and not after Kargil. And that Pakistan lost a lot of face in International circles is beyond doubt. U.S critisized Pakistan for doing what you did in Kargil when India was talking about peace.

5. No sir , dont ever think that you are doing world any favors. Pakistan would have died a slow death if you wouldn't have controlled these elements in your society. Saving the world is to some extent what U.S does by sending its troops half way across globe . You guys are merely protecting whats yours.

6. I would have liked S-2 to explain it to you but it wasnt U.S but Pakistan that gave rise to Taliban to acheive so called strategic depth in Afghanistan.

Btw this post is offtopic and so was yours. So lets stick to the topic and if you have anything to talk about Kargil being a debacle or lost oppurtunity then say so.

1) YOU don't have TV but again without any source you claim INDIAN MEDIA IS MORE MATURE???? what source makes you say that?

2) as for LOC violation my friend india did cross the LOC hence both your fighters were shot down!!! so don't give me LoC must be respected BS!

3) pakistan attacked india so many times? well like i said we learnt from you my friend!! read my post i have given you examples from junagadh to siachen!! as for terrorists bleeding you its your own government policies!

4) Well like i said 9/11 was after kargil so don't give me this bs that pakistan lost face! pakistan lost nothing sanctions got lifted period!

5) US saves the world???? & if pakistan doesn't fight this war trust me your style of life won't be safe!!! we are cleaning out the dirty laundry! for everyone!

6) America in the World: Hillary Clinton says inconsistent American foreign policy is partly to blame for rise of Taliban in Pakistan

don't give me this crap that pakistan were responsible for the rise of al qaeda!

Now we can go back to the topic!!!!

 

[DeathGod]

1) YOU don't have TV but again without any source you claim INDIAN MEDIA IS MORE MATURE???? what source makes you say that?

Note to self: Dont debate with people who cant even fathom the different ways information about TV can be accumulated . Well lets go one better here. Dont debate with people who wont provide any evidence to support a view which is against the usual norm and just harp about the past.

 

[ice_man]

Note to self: Dont debate with people who cant even fathom the different ways information about TV can be accumulated . Well lets go one better here. Dont debate with people who wont provide any evidence to support a view which is against the usual norm and just harp about the past.

so this is your comeback GAJHNI boy!!

well YOU guys are claiming that indian MEDIA is more "MATURE" be it print or whatever! YOU should be the ones providing proof! besides before you make mental notes to yourself GAJNI boy please read what you wrote "barring a few news channels"

but go ahead make notes to yourself if that is all you got for a comeback for your absurd claims that you cannot backup with any sort of evidence

 

[DeathGod]

so this is your comeback GAJHNI boy!!

well YOU guys are claiming that indian MEDIA is more "MATURE" be it print or whatever! YOU should be the ones providing proof! besides before you make mental notes to yourself GAJNI boy please read what you wrote "barring a few news channels"

but go ahead make notes to yourself if that is all you got for a comeback for your absurd claims that you cannot backup with any sort of evidence

I didnt want to respond to your post but I guess my heart rather than my mind is at work.Here is my reply:

Dude you are disgusting and the cheap jokes you are cracking show me where you come from. You are not trying to belittle me by labelling me as a Ghajini boy but you are making fun of all the people who are unfortunate to suffer from Anterograde amnesia. I feel sick thinking about the kind of person you are and hence this is my last reply to your pointless posts.

Btw you are no less arrogant then ice man in Top Gun but the sad part is that your arrogance is the only quality that you can show. Maybe you are lucky not to be deprieved by God of your physical and mental self else you wouldn't have cracked such a cheap joke. One TIGHT Slap at such attitude.

 

[tridev]

so this is your comeback GAJHNI boy!!

well YOU guys are claiming that indian MEDIA is more "MATURE" be it print or whatever! YOU should be the ones providing proof! besides before you make mental notes to yourself GAJNI boy please read what you wrote "barring a few news channels"

but go ahead make notes to yourself if that is all you got for a comeback for your absurd claims that you cannot backup with any sort of evidence

Bhaiya......we have the money, muscle and men.....we also have Siachin, Sachin and kashmir. Do what you have to or believe....balls to you...we don't give a damn.....just like you don't.......Like Israel we will do what we want......we don't give a damn about your opinion.....we are at a stronger position in every manner.....money, muscle and men.....so balls to you

 

[lorriefauver]

This is the first article I’ve read since finding this site…and what an article!!! I’m hooked. Thanks Adnan for the great stuff

 

[Yusuf]

Kargil a debacle or an op lost?
It was a BS plan as far as i can think. There was no opportunity in the kind of campaign to get anything out of it. It was called as a mujahideen campaign by the Pakistanis. So obviously it could not have got any world support for it if at all.

If the Pakistanis really wanted to do something the it should have mounted a full scale war if the objective was to sit on the areas it occupied till the west stepped in. The plan of Kargil was doomed from the start.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

No point to discuss the past - it was a minor scrimage , and we just brought our soliders back after joint discussions in US etc end of story ...

We shock hands ... end of story

Time to move on some rouge (AGENTS) destroyed a solid peace effort , and that is reality so we should focus on that

 

[Abhiras]

@BSF well media propaganda done by the indians ofcourse you will depict yourself as the heroes buddy....BUT SHERKHAN & LALAK JAN....were appreciated by your military....

like i said you won the media propaganda!!

'we won' means 'you lose'

 

[Hayreddin]

yes you people won every "WAR" against PAKISTAN only in your bollywood movies and in your dreams .So go back and watch again and again bollywood movies based on war against PAKISTAN .
as far as your bullshit ARMY is concerned ,they always showed *** against KASHMIRI MILITANTS .
What did your army do in last two decades in kashmir ,did they succeeded ?????????.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,oooooo HELL NO,,,,,,,,,,,,

What did PAKISTAN ARMY do againt TEHREEK E TALIBAN terrorists in last three years,,,,,,simply google it and you will find the results ,,,,,,,,Are they getting success ??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,oooooooo HELL YES.


simple comparison but clear results

 

[Abhiras]

yes you people won every "WAR" against PAKISTAN only in your bollywood movies and in your dreams .So go back and watch again and again bollywood movies based on war against PAKISTAN .
as far as your bullshit ARMY is concerned ,they always showed *** against KASHMIRI MILITANTS .
What did your army do in last two decades in kashmir ,did they succeeded ?????????.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,oooooo HELL NO,,,,,,,,,,,,

What did PAKISTAN ARMY do againt TEHREEK E TALIBAN terrorists in last three years,,,,,,simply google it and you will find the results ,,,,,,,,Are they getting success ??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,oooooooo HELL YES.


simple comparison but clear results

Pakistan is providing behind the scene support to these terrorists

 

[Bang Galore]

wooohooo!!!

firstly LOC means LINE OF CONTROL! india has been arguing the case to make it an INTERNATIONAL BORDER!!! so us walking into kargil or you walking into SIACHEN are both in theory correct!! because whoever holds onto their ground it is theirs!

Not accurate. Siachin is not on the LoC. Its on the LoAC (Line of actual control) where the ceasefire line has never been demarcated as opposed to the LoC which is documented in the Shimla Agreement. If you see any map referring to the LoC, you will actually see the line tapering off as it comes towards Siachin. This may seem a minor technical matter to you but it has a major bearing on the legal front.